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https://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=313462
Here's intel on Susman: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=304571Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:27 pmGoing to avoid giving any details to avoid outing myself, but let's just say that I am considering a lateral from one firm to another as a junior associate. Does anyone have any intel on these firms -- e.g., hours, general culture, type of work that they do, etc?
What do you want to know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:59 pmThere's not much information on KH there -- or really anywhere on this Board at all. Would love additional.
Hours, general culture, experiences / recommendation from those who have worked there?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:25 pmWhat do you want to know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:59 pmThere's not much information on KH there -- or really anywhere on this Board at all. Would love additional.
2700-3000 hours common, closed door culture with very limited "collegiality," (people go into office, close door, and then leave at EOD), it's good pay and good experience but you work for it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:13 amHours, general culture, experiences / recommendation from those who have worked there?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:25 pmWhat do you want to know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:59 pmThere's not much information on KH there -- or really anywhere on this Board at all. Would love additional.
But then why go into the office? Or it's just personal preference?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:25 am2700-3000 hours common, closed door culture with very limited "collegiality," (people go into office, close door, and then leave at EOD), it's good pay and good experience but you work for it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:13 amHours, general culture, experiences / recommendation from those who have worked there?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:25 pmWhat do you want to know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:59 pmThere's not much information on KH there -- or really anywhere on this Board at all. Would love additional.
anecdote from friend but seems like not a ton of leniency on WFH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 12:16 pmBut then why go into the office? Or it's just personal preference?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:25 am2700-3000 hours common, closed door culture with very limited "collegiality," (people go into office, close door, and then leave at EOD), it's good pay and good experience but you work for it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:13 amHours, general culture, experiences / recommendation from those who have worked there?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:25 pmWhat do you want to know?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:59 pmThere's not much information on KH there -- or really anywhere on this Board at all. Would love additional.
SG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
I'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
More prestige, money, and substantive experience than the typical biglaw shopAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:04 pmI'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
As compared to SG, I mean.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:26 pmMore prestige, money, and substantive experience than the typical biglaw shopAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:04 pmI'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
substantially easier to get job at KH than at SGAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:33 pmAs compared to SG, I mean.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:26 pmMore prestige, money, and substantive experience than the typical biglaw shopAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:04 pmI'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
This seems... wrong?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:01 pmsubstantially easier to get job at KH than at SGAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:33 pmAs compared to SG, I mean.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:26 pmMore prestige, money, and substantive experience than the typical biglaw shopAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:04 pmI'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
Untrue. It's easier overall to get a job at SG, although SG NY is maybe more competitive. As for benefits, KH offers higher compensation to associates, more guaranteed compensation to partners (compared to SG's pure EWYK system), significant appellate work, and an office in DC. Also, some people like the nerdy, introverted culture.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:01 pmsubstantially easier to get job at KH than at SGAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:33 pmAs compared to SG, I mean.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:26 pmMore prestige, money, and substantive experience than the typical biglaw shopAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:04 pmI'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
Anecdote but know several people who got offers at KH and didn't get interviews at SG.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:03 pmUntrue. It's easier overall to get a job at SG, although SG NY is maybe more competitive. As for benefits, KH offers higher compensation to associates, more guaranteed compensation to partners (compared to SG's pure EWYK system), significant appellate work, and an office in DC. Also, some people like the nerdy, introverted culture.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:01 pmsubstantially easier to get job at KH than at SGAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:33 pmAs compared to SG, I mean.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:26 pmMore prestige, money, and substantive experience than the typical biglaw shopAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:04 pmI'm not sure I understand, in light of this thread, what really the draw is of KH.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:46 pmSG associate here. Similar hours expectation (median usually hovers around 2600-2700), but very different on the collegiality--the firm is quite social both in and out of the office.
Given OPs comment about being a lateral candidate, worth noting that SG almost universally does not hire laterals. There are of course exceptions, but they are few and far between.
And, your first few years in, you'd be paid more than triple (at least) in bonus money than your friends/colleagues in Big Law who get market pay but in a larger office with more folks milling around the hallways or gathering for happy hour to discuss which restaurants they want to get a res at next Friday. Pick your poison, to each their own....Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:48 amI'm gunning for clerkships and feeling like it's not gonna pan out, but this reminds me that even if my dream came true and I got like a COA clerkship --> elite lit boutique, I would then be in for possibly 3,000 hours by myself in a little office anyway. TLS always comes through with the reality check
arent KH bonuses for first years 30k? Like yeah that's 2X a first year bonus in big law but is 15k really worth 500 billables?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:53 amAnd, your first few years in, you'd be paid more than triple (at least) in bonus money than your friends/colleagues in Big Law who get market pay but in a larger office with more folks milling around the hallways or gathering for happy hour to discuss which restaurants they want to get a res at next Friday. Pick your poison, to each their own....Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:48 amI'm gunning for clerkships and feeling like it's not gonna pan out, but this reminds me that even if my dream came true and I got like a COA clerkship --> elite lit boutique, I would then be in for possibly 3,000 hours by myself in a little office anyway. TLS always comes through with the reality check
They're significantly higher. Kellogg first years get $255k base, $175k signing, and end-of-year bonuses far above market. Last year the 3rd-6th year associate bonuses averaged $200k, and the top associates made $400k.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pmarent KH bonuses for first years 30k? Like yeah that's 2X a first year bonus in big law but is 15k really worth 500 billables?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:53 amAnd, your first few years in, you'd be paid more than triple (at least) in bonus money than your friends/colleagues in Big Law who get market pay but in a larger office with more folks milling around the hallways or gathering for happy hour to discuss which restaurants they want to get a res at next Friday. Pick your poison, to each their own....Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:48 amI'm gunning for clerkships and feeling like it's not gonna pan out, but this reminds me that even if my dream came true and I got like a COA clerkship --> elite lit boutique, I would then be in for possibly 3,000 hours by myself in a little office anyway. TLS always comes through with the reality check
the 175k is a clerkship bonus isnt it? It closes the opportunity cost of clerking vs starting in big law.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:44 pmThey're significantly higher. Kellogg first years get $255k base, $175k signing, and end-of-year bonuses far above market. Last year the 3rd-6th year associate bonuses averaged $200k, and the top associates made $400k.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pmarent KH bonuses for first years 30k? Like yeah that's 2X a first year bonus in big law but is 15k really worth 500 billables?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:53 amAnd, your first few years in, you'd be paid more than triple (at least) in bonus money than your friends/colleagues in Big Law who get market pay but in a larger office with more folks milling around the hallways or gathering for happy hour to discuss which restaurants they want to get a res at next Friday. Pick your poison, to each their own....Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:48 amI'm gunning for clerkships and feeling like it's not gonna pan out, but this reminds me that even if my dream came true and I got like a COA clerkship --> elite lit boutique, I would then be in for possibly 3,000 hours by myself in a little office anyway. TLS always comes through with the reality check
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:44 pmThey're significantly higher. Kellogg first years get $255k base, $175k signing, and end-of-year bonuses far above market. Last year the 3rd-6th year associate bonuses averaged $200k, and the top associates made $400k.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:51 pmarent KH bonuses for first years 30k? Like yeah that's 2X a first year bonus in big law but is 15k really worth 500 billables?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:53 amAnd, your first few years in, you'd be paid more than triple (at least) in bonus money than your friends/colleagues in Big Law who get market pay but in a larger office with more folks milling around the hallways or gathering for happy hour to discuss which restaurants they want to get a res at next Friday. Pick your poison, to each their own....Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:48 amI'm gunning for clerkships and feeling like it's not gonna pan out, but this reminds me that even if my dream came true and I got like a COA clerkship --> elite lit boutique, I would then be in for possibly 3,000 hours by myself in a little office anyway. TLS always comes through with the reality check