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I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:03 pm

I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

To answer your question, no. Although I'm in the camp that PhDs also shouldn't be able to go by doctor. But what I think doesn't really matter.

I've never heard an attorney go by Dr., even if it is technically a Juris Doctorate degree. I also rarely see anybody besides TTT lawyers use the term esquire, though some will use it in abnormally formal correspondence. Mr./Ms. is what you should use 99.9% of the time. In fact, most of the time I find myself wanting to hide that I'm a lawyer from people I meet, rather than advertise it with Dr. or esquire.

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:08 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:03 pm

I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

To answer your question, no. Although I'm in the camp that PhDs also shouldn't be able to go by doctor. But what I think doesn't really matter.

I think what he or she meant was what sort of attorneys use Doctor, not whether any do or not (since at least one certainly does).

https://www.abajournal.com/magazine/art ... te%20level.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:11 pm

I've never heard an attorney go by Dr., even if it is technically a Juris Doctorate degree. I also rarely see anybody besides TTT lawyers use the term esquire, though some will use it in abnormally formal correspondence. Mr./Ms. is what you should use 99.9% of the time. In fact, most of the time I find myself wanting to hide that I'm a lawyer from people I meet, rather than advertise it with Dr. or esquire.

Don't you think people would be impressed by it though? As in strangers? You say you are a doctor and they won't ask much else to indicate you are an attorney-doctor. They can assume medical.

It's more rigorous than a lot of degrees that go by Dr, but no. Convention is that lawyers do not get any honorifics before the name. You can do esquire or JD after the name but imo that's tacky.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:15 pm

It's more rigorous than a lot of degrees that go by Dr, but no. Convention is that lawyers do not get any honorifics before the name. You can do esquire or JD after the name but imo that's tacky.

Okay so it seems there may be a consensus that most lawyers do not put Dr. in front of their names. I think what I would like to know is in what contexts the lawyers who do actually do deploy the honorific. And if the ABA allows it in some states how this can further a legal career.

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:11 pm

I've never heard an attorney go by Dr., even if it is technically a Juris Doctorate degree. I also rarely see anybody besides TTT lawyers use the term esquire, though some will use it in abnormally formal correspondence. Mr./Ms. is what you should use 99.9% of the time. In fact, most of the time I find myself wanting to hide that I'm a lawyer from people I meet, rather than advertise it with Dr. or esquire.

Don't you think people would be impressed by it though? As in strangers? You say you are a doctor and they won't ask much else to indicate you are an attorney-doctor. They can assume medical.

I mean, nothing stops you from claiming to be a medical doctor to a stranger! You acknowledge that you're trying to mislead.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:17 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:11 pm

I've never heard an attorney go by Dr., even if it is technically a Juris Doctorate degree. I also rarely see anybody besides TTT lawyers use the term esquire, though some will use it in abnormally formal correspondence. Mr./Ms. is what you should use 99.9% of the time. In fact, most of the time I find myself wanting to hide that I'm a lawyer from people I meet, rather than advertise it with Dr. or esquire.

Don't you think people would be impressed by it though? As in strangers? You say you are a doctor and they won't ask much else to indicate you are an attorney-doctor. They can assume medical.

I mean, nothing stops you from claiming to be a medical doctor to a stranger! You acknowledge that you're trying to mislead.

Not trying to mislead really. Simply asking a question since the ABA said this was an option.......

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:15 pm

It's more rigorous than a lot of degrees that go by Dr, but no. Convention is that lawyers do not get any honorifics before the name. You can do esquire or JD after the name but imo that's tacky.

Okay so it seems there may be a consensus that most lawyers do not put Dr. in front of their names. I think what I would like to know is in what contexts the lawyers who do actually do deploy the honorific. And if the ABA allows it in some states how this can further a legal career.

Where is this question even coming from? Is this coming from a place of deep insecurity that you can't get into a medical school? Those seem to be the type of people who ask this question. If so, you should reevaluate your priorities and maybe care a bit less about social prestige. If not, I'll answer you completely seriously and tell you that it isn't "most lawyers" that do not use the Dr. honorific. It is ALL lawyers that do not use the Dr. honorific. I have looked at profiles of and worked with 1,000+ attorneys and have never seen it once. I'm sure for anyone here who knows somebody who does that person is either a PhD douche, has some foreign tradition (e.g., being European and having a different honorific system), or is a wack job.

Sackboy wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:27 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:15 pm

It's more rigorous than a lot of degrees that go by Dr, but no. Convention is that lawyers do not get any honorifics before the name. You can do esquire or JD after the name but imo that's tacky.

Okay so it seems there may be a consensus that most lawyers do not put Dr. in front of their names. I think what I would like to know is in what contexts the lawyers who do actually do deploy the honorific. And if the ABA allows it in some states how this can further a legal career.

Where is this question even coming from? Is this coming from a place of deep insecurity that you can't get into a medical school? Those seem to be the type of people who ask this question. If so, you should reevaluate your priorities and maybe care a bit less about social prestige. If not, I'll answer you completely seriously and tell you that it isn't "most lawyers" that do not use the Dr. honorific. It is ALL lawyers that do not use the Dr. honorific. I have looked at profiles of and worked with 1,000+ attorneys and have never seen it once. I'm sure for anyone here who knows somebody who does that person is either a PhD douche, has some foreign tradition (e.g., being European and having a different honorific system), or is a wack job.

I don't have any lawyers in my family and not many in my social network so I googled it because the Juris DOCTOR part stuck out to me. After googling it I found the ABA has an opinion so I decided to ask here. Not being a "douche" or "wack job"

Never tried to go to med school....

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:08 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:03 pm

I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

To answer your question, no. Although I'm in the camp that PhDs also shouldn't be able to go by doctor. But what I think doesn't really matter.

This take makes me so mad. PhD >>> MD. Make MDs go by Physician so the bio plebes know their place. Research is the highest calling.

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Okay so it seems there may be a consensus that most lawyers do not put Dr. in front of their names. I think what I would like to know is in what contexts the lawyers who do actually do deploy the honorific. And if the ABA allows it in some states how this can further a legal career.

The context for any lawyer using that title is that they're a tool. How it will further a legal career is not at all.

Someone writing a column in the ABA Journal that lawyers can call themselves "doctor" is not the same as the ABA having an opinion about it. However, the North Carolina state bar actually issued an opinion that JDs may not call themselves "doctor" because it violates the professional obligation not to engage in dishonesty, fraud, or misrepresentation. https://www.ncbar.gov/for-lawyers/ethic ... ons/rpc-5/

As for credibility and standing outside a legal context, people shouldn't really be insisting on their professional titles outside of their professional context. Making people call you "Doctor" in a social setting makes you look like a tool regardless of whether you have a JD, PhD, or MD. And I have no idea what benefit you think you'd gain by calling yourself "doctor" outside of a legal setting - who are you trying to impress and why? How impressive do you think it would look to to call yourself "doctor," get asked about the other person's bad back, and have to confess you didn't mean THAT kind of doctor?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:55 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:08 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:03 pm

I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

To answer your question, no. Although I'm in the camp that PhDs also shouldn't be able to go by doctor. But what I think doesn't really matter.

This take makes me so mad. PhD >>> MD. Make MDs go by Physician so the bio plebes know their place. Research is the highest calling.

The issue isn't if you "deserve" it or not. It's just misleading because people associate it with a physician. If you're in an academic setting where your PhD matters then it makes sense to highlight it. But in day to day life just go by first last. It's weird to insist on being called something special.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:55 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:08 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:03 pm

I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

To answer your question, no. Although I'm in the camp that PhDs also shouldn't be able to go by doctor. But what I think doesn't really matter.

This take makes me so mad. PhD >>> MD. Make MDs go by Physician so the bio plebes know their place. Research is the highest calling.

This is unfair. A comp lit PhD or a PhD in English did not work as hard or master anything nearly as difficult as the standard MD curriculum. Plus they hardly researched anything.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:55 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:08 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:03 pm

I am only an 0L so asking any attorneys willing to help with this question. Do any lawyers go by "Doctor" given the degree is juris doctor and it qualifies graduates to teach law (to my understanding most law professors have a JD to teach with no other advanced credential)? If so, when and in what context do they do this? When is it more appropriate to use esquire? And wouldn't "Dr." give more credibility and standing outside of a legal context? Thanks for the insight.

To answer your question, no. Although I'm in the camp that PhDs also shouldn't be able to go by doctor. But what I think doesn't really matter.

This take makes me so mad. PhD >>> MD. Make MDs go by Physician so the bio plebes know their place. Research is the highest calling.

The issue isn't if you "deserve" it or not. It's just misleading because people associate it with a physician. If you're in an academic setting where your PhD matters then it makes sense to highlight it. But in day to day life just go by first last. It's weird to insist on being called something special.

If no damage is done by being "misleading" then what is the issue? Plus you can just say "I am Dr. Smith, Juris Doctor" on a business card or LinkedIn to avoid any appearance of deception.

nixy wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:07 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Okay so it seems there may be a consensus that most lawyers do not put Dr. in front of their names. I think what I would like to know is in what contexts the lawyers who do actually do deploy the honorific. And if the ABA allows it in some states how this can further a legal career.

The context for any lawyer using that title is that they're a tool. How it will further a legal career is not at all.

Someone writing a column in the ABA Journal that lawyers can call themselves "doctor" is not the same as the ABA having an opinion about it. However, the North Carolina state bar actually issued an opinion that JDs may not call themselves "doctor" because it violates the professional obligation not to engage in dishonesty, fraud, or misrepresentation. https://www.ncbar.gov/for-lawyers/ethic ... ons/rpc-5/

As for credibility and standing outside a legal context, people shouldn't really be insisting on their professional titles outside of their professional context. Making people call you "Doctor" in a social setting makes you look like a tool regardless of whether you have a JD, PhD, or MD. And I have no idea what benefit you think you'd gain by calling yourself "doctor" outside of a legal setting - who are you trying to impress and why? How impressive do you think it would look to to call yourself "doctor," get asked about the other person's bad back, and have to confess you didn't mean THAT kind of doctor?

One state (which I do not plan to practice in) banned the use of it. So up to 49 states allow it then. Frankly, I think having that Dr. title can drum up business and potential clients, but maybe that is just me. Guess it also depends on practice area.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:21 pm

nixy wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:07 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:17 pm

Okay so it seems there may be a consensus that most lawyers do not put Dr. in front of their names. I think what I would like to know is in what contexts the lawyers who do actually do deploy the honorific. And if the ABA allows it in some states how this can further a legal career.

The context for any lawyer using that title is that they're a tool. How it will further a legal career is not at all.

Someone writing a column in the ABA Journal that lawyers can call themselves "doctor" is not the same as the ABA having an opinion about it. However, the North Carolina state bar actually issued an opinion that JDs may not call themselves "doctor" because it violates the professional obligation not to engage in dishonesty, fraud, or misrepresentation. https://www.ncbar.gov/for-lawyers/ethic ... ons/rpc-5/

As for credibility and standing outside a legal context, people shouldn't really be insisting on their professional titles outside of their professional context. Making people call you "Doctor" in a social setting makes you look like a tool regardless of whether you have a JD, PhD, or MD. And I have no idea what benefit you think you'd gain by calling yourself "doctor" outside of a legal setting - who are you trying to impress and why? How impressive do you think it would look to to call yourself "doctor," get asked about the other person's bad back, and have to confess you didn't mean THAT kind of doctor?

One state (which I do not plan to practice in) banned the use of it. So up to 49 states allow it then. Frankly, I think having that Dr. title can drum up business and potential clients, but maybe that is just me. Guess it also depends on practice area.

I didn't say only NC had banned it - that was the first thing I found when I googled b/c I'm already spending way more time on this issue than your posting deserves, I wasn't looking up all 50 states. But more practically, if having the Dr. title drummed up business/potential clients, you'd see people doing this already - they don't do it because it doesn't help, not because no one came up with the idea before you did.

I think you mentioned being interested in IP in another post - using "Doctor" in that context would be extremely misleading because that's the one field where a good percentage of JDs actually also have PhDs and it would be seen as you claiming scientific expertise you don't have.

Also go get a PhD in comp lit (which requires reading multiple languages) or English, then say it's not hard or they hardly researched anything (hint: a PhD requires producing a work of original research, an MD doesn't).

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 7:20 pm

If no damage is done by being "misleading" then what is the issue? Plus you can just say "I am Dr. Smith, Juris Doctor" on a business card or LinkedIn to avoid any appearance of deception.

You can also say you're an ass hat on a business card and it will get you about as far as saying Dr. as a lawyer. As you should already know, just because you can, it does not follow that you should. If you don't understand that formal logic then maybe law school isn't for you.

Someone already said this, but you get absolutely nothing by calling yourself Dr. when you only have a JD. Whatever cred you might get will evaporate as soon as they find out you're just a JD because no matter what circle you're in, no lawyer uses Dr.

Lets take that a bit further. If you're talking to someone who doesn't know any doctors or lawyers, you don't gain anything by saying Dr. because they will be just as impressed that you're a lawyer. I know plenty of these types of people, and they still can't get over the fact that they indeed have a friend who is a lawyer. Doesn't matter that I went to a T14 or landed a V25 firm. Just being a lawyer is enough. Plus, when they find out you're not a doctor, you're sure as hell going to confuse the heck out of them when you try to explain to them that a lawyer has a doctorate (I've seen PhD friends deal with this challenge; not fun).

If, on the other hand, you're in a group of people who do know doctors, lawyers, PhDs, etc. they're going to think you're a pretentious fool for using the Dr. honorific as a mere lawyer. You'll be the only one they have ever seen do it and it's just weird, so don't even try.

TL;DR, you're not going to gain anything so just drop it.

P.S. I do know a real Doctor-Lawyer (MD-JD) - he and he alone has the right to use Dr. Name, Esq. because it's badass and true AF.

Okay bro. Wasn’t trying to say it’s often a good idea. Pointing out you are in fact a doctor and can call yourself it. I’m sure it comes in handy sometimes and no one will call you an ass hat. Sorry for catching you on a bad day

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:27 pm

Okay bro. Wasn’t trying to say it’s often a good idea. Pointing out you are in fact a doctor and can call yourself it. I’m sure it comes in handy sometimes and no one will call you an ass hat. Sorry for catching you on a bad day

No what I (and everyone else ITT) am telling you is it will literally never come in handy. Not sometimes, not ever. You just sound like a noob by disagreeing and trying to make fetch happen.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:31 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:27 pm

Okay bro. Wasn’t trying to say it’s often a good idea. Pointing out you are in fact a doctor and can call yourself it. I’m sure it comes in handy sometimes and no one will call you an ass hat. Sorry for catching you on a bad day

No what I (and everyone else ITT) am telling you is it will literally never come in handy. Not sometimes, not ever. You just sound like a noob by disagreeing and trying to make fetch happen.

If you’re in hospital defense it’d help with jurors unfamiliar with professional norms

OP obviously is trolling. C’mon, y’all

Lesion of Doom wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 pm

OP obviously is trolling. C’mon, y’all

That’s Future Dr. Lawyer OP JD Esq to you!

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:31 pm

aspiring0L wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:27 pm

Okay bro. Wasn’t trying to say it’s often a good idea. Pointing out you are in fact a doctor and can call yourself it. I’m sure it comes in handy sometimes and no one will call you an ass hat. Sorry for catching you on a bad day

No what I (and everyone else ITT) am telling you is it will literally never come in handy. Not sometimes, not ever. You just sound like a noob by disagreeing and trying to make fetch happen.

If you’re in hospital defense it’d help with jurors unfamiliar with professional norms

No judge is going to refer to you as (or let you refer to yourself as) Dr. Troll in front of a jury.

(I have to admit I admire trolls’ ability to find exactly the most annoying opinions.)