Wachtell vs. DC Lit for Clerkships? Forum

[Anonymous User]

That said, I've seen firsthand this partner go to bat hard, for myself and another summer (with another judge), based on what objectively was certainly "not enough meaningful work as a summer to get a recommendation a judge will take seriously." Yet the judges did take it seriously because this partner knew what to say and had relationships with the judges.

In my experience, recommenders who care about conserving / maximizing pull tend not to do this, and the reason is pretty self-evident: Inevitably, if they're recommending based on not enough information, they will highly recommend a bad apple, and the judge will be pissed and not trust them.

But, I have no doubt there are exceptions to that rule, which you have experienced.

Alternatively, perhaps this person is covertly talking to a bunch of people (others the associate worked with at the firm + professors) before making the call, and so has more information than it appears.

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Most people tend to go back to firms where they summered and have good relationships with the important partners?

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Most people tend to go back to firms where they summered and have good relationships with the important partners?

In appellate, it is very common to jump ship.

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Most people tend to go back to firms where they summered and have good relationships with the important partners?

Most people go back to the same firms where they summered AFTER multiple consecutive fancy clerkships?

Not true.

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Not a waste - it's one spot, and there are plenty of "top" people to choose from if the person you went with jumps ship. While not a waste I do think it's a little silly and simply and reflects the prestige-obsession that others have noted.

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Most people tend to go back to firms where they summered and have good relationships with the important partners?

Most people go back to the same firms where they summered AFTER multiple consecutive fancy clerkships?

Not true.

Yeah it’s super common to switch, or to skip biglaw entirely, but a good number go back at least for a while and there aren’t many spots like this so it isn’t too much of a waste for a huge firm

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Most people tend to go back to firms where they summered and have good relationships with the important partners?

Most people go back to the same firms where they summered AFTER multiple consecutive fancy clerkships?

Not true.

Yeah it’s super common to switch, or to skip biglaw entirely, but a good number go back at least for a while and there aren’t many spots like this so it isn’t too much of a waste for a huge firm

If all they're giving is a summer spot and it's a firm with a serious litigation (especially appellate) practice, it's not a waste at all. Firms either know when summers come in or figure out over the summer which people in the class are interested in and likely to get prestigious clerkships, and they can give those summers good projects with stellar partners that make the law student want to come back. Then, if the summer gets a clerkship for immediately after graduation, the law firm gives them an offer letter which, if the summer signs, allows the summer free bar prep and a summer stipend. A lot of law students take that deal and sign on, which is a huge win for the law firm--they need a certain number of people with clerkships to have a strong litigation practice, and anyone who signs an offer comes back at a $50,000 or $70,000 clerkship bonus. That's a perk in itself because if the firm had to recruit that same clerk after their clerkship without a signed offer, the firm would probably have to pay a far-above-market bonus to beat out the boutiques. And that would come at the risk that the firm doesn't even *like* this new clerk; the bonus with the summer is that, if the firm doesn't like the summer, the firm can simply not hold open an offer (which happens all the time).

Law firm summers are basically just marketing campaigns run by the law firm. They spend a lot of time and money convincing every summer in the class that they're the best firm in the market, and most firms are really good at it (just look at the brand loyalty Kirkland has on here). It won't work for everyone and some clerks don't come back, but I bet the ones the firm *really* wants usually do.

[Anonymous User]

unrelated, but HYSC 1L - where do the grade thresholds sit to get actually considered at Wachtell during EIP? Or are they looking for non-grade things (accounting/finance/consulting background or such).

[Anonymous User]

Now that OP has made their decision, what I’d like to know is what’s in it for the firm to hire someone like OP, who’s not going to be done clerking until 2026 or 2027 and is probably no more likely to return to the firm where they spent a summer in 2023 than to hit the market and game out what is the next prestigious thing to chase. Seems like a waste of a summer spot.

Most people tend to go back to firms where they summered and have good relationships with the important partners?

Most people go back to the same firms where they summered AFTER multiple consecutive fancy clerkships?

Not true.

Yeah it’s super common to switch, or to skip biglaw entirely, but a good number go back at least for a while and there aren’t many spots like this so it isn’t too much of a waste for a huge firm

If all they're giving is a summer spot and it's a firm with a serious litigation (especially appellate) practice, it's not a waste at all. Firms either know when summers come in or figure out over the summer which people in the class are interested in and likely to get prestigious clerkships, and they can give those summers good projects with stellar partners that make the law student want to come back. Then, if the summer gets a clerkship for immediately after graduation, the law firm gives them an offer letter which, if the summer signs, allows the summer free bar prep and a summer stipend. A lot of law students take that deal and sign on, which is a huge win for the law firm--they need a certain number of people with clerkships to have a strong litigation practice, and anyone who signs an offer comes back at a $50,000 or $70,000 clerkship bonus. That's a perk in itself because if the firm had to recruit that same clerk after their clerkship without a signed offer, the firm would probably have to pay a far-above-market bonus to beat out the boutiques. And that would come at the risk that the firm doesn't even *like* this new clerk; the bonus with the summer is that, if the firm doesn't like the summer, the firm can simply not hold open an offer (which happens all the time).

Law firm summers are basically just marketing campaigns run by the law firm. They spend a lot of time and money convincing every summer in the class that they're the best firm in the market, and most firms are really good at it (just look at the brand loyalty Kirkland has on here). It won't work for everyone and some clerks don't come back, but I bet the ones the firm *really* wants usually do.

This may be how the world looks from a law student’s perspective. But, in fact:

1. Judge will not let clerk

[Cantabridgian]

I'm deciding between WLRK and several DC lit firms after OCI, including Wilmer, GDC, Covington, and PW, though no DC boutiques. Do any of these firms, either as a resume signal going into OSCAR or as a network of connections after 2L summer for 3L off-plan hiring, give a leg up for clerkships?

I like NYC and DC equally and I'm not trying to plan out the next 5 years of my life at this time, so non-clerkship long-term considerations (including pay -- I know WLRK pays a lot more) don't factor in here. My understanding is that for OSCAR, WLRK gives a non-trivial boost for SDNY/CA2 and isn't any worse than any DC firm in any other region, even for DDC/CADC. But for off-plan, WLRK's network might be weaker than some of the government oriented lit places. And WLRK doesn't do appellate work, which is a drag.

Is this right? Any info appreciated.

If you can get a job offer from Wachtell, take it! And, after 50+ years of practicing law, primarily civil litigation, I can tell you that appellate work is not as exciting as civil trial work. If you are committed to doing appellate work, 4 or 5 years of civil (and criminal) litigation before specializing is a must.

[Anonymous User]

I'm deciding between WLRK and several DC lit firms after OCI, including Wilmer, GDC, Covington, and PW, though no DC boutiques. Do any of these firms, either as a resume signal going into OSCAR or as a network of connections after 2L summer for 3L off-plan hiring, give a leg up for clerkships?

I like NYC and DC equally and I'm not trying to plan out the next 5 years of my life at this time, so non-clerkship long-term considerations (including pay -- I know WLRK pays a lot more) don't factor in here. My understanding is that for OSCAR, WLRK gives a non-trivial boost for SDNY/CA2 and isn't any worse than any DC firm in any other region, even for DDC/CADC. But for off-plan, WLRK's network might be weaker than some of the government oriented lit places. And WLRK doesn't do appellate work, which is a drag.

Is this right? Any info appreciated.

If you can get a job offer from Wachtell, take it! And, after 50+ years of practicing law, primarily civil litigation, I can tell you that appellate work is not as exciting as civil trial work. If you are committed to doing appellate work, 4 or 5 years of civil (and criminal) litigation before specializing is a must.

I agree that civil trial work is more fun than the appellate work, mostly because it is more fast-paced. However, civil litigation is not a necessary antecedent to appellate work. The best way to do appellate work is to go to DC and work with an appellate group.