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For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination; think of Chassidic Jews with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

Editing to say this is in no way meant to undermine the plight of racial/ethnic minorities in this country and the challenges they face. A separate question that I am not asking is the fact that this would take away the scholarship from someone else who may deserve it more. I was asking if it's inappropriate even to try to apply; giving it some more thought, I won't be applying.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

As a secular ashkenazi Jew, I would personally not apply for diversity scholarships (unless specifically for Jews) and would think it weird if someone like me did apply. But I think your background is different and interesting enough that there is no harm in applying.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

Just apply, but have a good answer prepared if you get cross-examined on why you think you qualify.

Fellow frum jew here. You won't get it. Sorry.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

Just apply, but have a good answer prepared if you get cross-examined on why you think you qualify.

Thanks. Does receiving one of these scholarships hurt career prospects in any way? (eg. ppl thinking you got a freebie?)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

Just apply, but have a good answer prepared if you get cross-examined on why you think you qualify.

Thanks. Does receiving one of these scholarships hurt career prospects in any way? (eg. ppl thinking you got a freebie?)

No

Apply!

Agree you should apply as all they can say is no, but as someone who has sat in on recruiting meetings where applicants and diversity are discussed, you aren't the type of diverse law firms are really looking for. They are mostly just looking for the types of diversity you think of when you hear DEI.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:01 pm

Agree you should apply as all they can say is no, but as someone who has sat in on recruiting meetings where applicants and diversity are discussed, you aren't the type of diverse law firms are really looking for. They are mostly just looking for the types of diversity you think of when you hear DEI.

DEI scholarships are competitive for black and hispanic law students, so it will be very hard for you to get a DEI scholarship unless you go to HYS and have high grades

Although ethnic Jews are extremely overrepresented in the legal profession, you may have a good case for applying to DEI as an observant Jew. But I have never heard of anyone doing so before.

I'm a secular Jew and I tend to think the fact we're having this discussion suggests you shouldn't do it. But it's an interesting discussion, I'm open to being convinced why an observant Jew should qualify, and I'll be interested to see other responses.

I will say: interesting anecdote, my mom signed me up for a visiting weekend at a university when I was a senior in high school and overlooked the bit that said it was a "Diversity Weekend" (or maybe just didn't know what that meant). I ended up hanging out the whole weekend with the Black Students Association, who - to their credit - thought it was hilarious and were fantastic hosts. But it was definitely awkward, this white boy essentially intruding on an activity clearly not meant for me, taking a slot meant to benefit a person of color.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

At least at my v10, they are designed to help the visual diversity of the office/firm, not the religious/ideological/thought/background/experience/any other kind. Not here to debate whether visual diversity is a reasonable proxy for those kinds.

I applied for diversity fellowships as an Asian-American male from a working class immigrant background, and my interviewers made outright racist and nasty remarks toward me.

You may genuinely be diverse but don't kid yourself.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

At least at my v10, they are designed to help the visual diversity of the office/firm, not the religious/ideological/thought/background/experience/any other kind. Not here to debate whether visual diversity is a reasonable proxy for those kinds.

I'd add that visual diversity isn't everything — I've seen plenty of white passing hispanic women given DEI scholarships in the past too. Very unclear what is the sweet spot for DEI committees

Are Jews even a minority in big law? At my NY firm it feels like you’re a minority if you’re not Jewish.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

At least at my v10, they are designed to help the visual diversity of the office/firm, not the religious/ideological/thought/background/experience/any other kind. Not here to debate whether visual diversity is a reasonable proxy for those kinds.

I'd add that visual diversity isn't everything — I've seen plenty of white passing hispanic women given DEI scholarships in the past too. Very unclear what is the sweet spot for DEI committees

Did they have hispanic-sounding last names? That's probably "sweet enough."

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

At least at my v10, they are designed to help the visual diversity of the office/firm, not the religious/ideological/thought/background/experience/any other kind. Not here to debate whether visual diversity is a reasonable proxy for those kinds.

I'd add that visual diversity isn't everything — I've seen plenty of white passing hispanic women given DEI scholarships in the past too. Very unclear what is the sweet spot for DEI committees

What they look for is if they can promote you as a "non-Asian minority" or a member of the LBTBQ group in some way. Can be through your name or how you outwardly look.

I'm Asian, but have a Hispanic sounding last name, and was asked multiple times why I was not part of the Latinx law group on campus during these interviews and a few interviewers definitely reacted negatively to me stating truthfully that I was 100% Asian. I still was put up for a diversity scholarship spot, I think through impressing the head of the DEI group -- by networking separately to promote a non-profit I was involved with that coincided with an effort they were pushing, which actually got me the interviews in the first place -- but it was very off-putting.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

At least at my v10, they are designed to help the visual diversity of the office/firm, not the religious/ideological/thought/background/experience/any other kind. Not here to debate whether visual diversity is a reasonable proxy for those kinds.

I'd add that visual diversity isn't everything — I've seen plenty of white passing hispanic women given DEI scholarships in the past too. Very unclear what is the sweet spot for DEI committees

What they look for is if they can promote you as a "non-Asian minority" or a member of the LBTBQ group in some way. Can be through your name or how you outwardly look.

I'm Asian, but have a Hispanic sounding last name, and was asked multiple times why I was not part of the Latinx law group on campus during these interviews and a few interviewers definitely reacted negatively to me stating truthfully that I was 100% Asian. I still was put up for a diversity scholarship spot, I think through impressing the head of the DEI group -- by networking separately to promote a non-profit I was involved with that coincided with an effort they were pushing, which actually got me the interviews in the first place -- but it was very off-putting.

I would have just lied and said I was Hispanic. (I know a lot of Filipinos who do this for the affirmative action/diversity benefits.) Good for you for having integrity.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:22 pm

For those who don't know, GDC just launched the first affinity group housed within the DEI department of a law firm for Sabbath-observant Jews. Whether it's merited or not is not what I am here for. (TLS has debated the "are Jews lazy" vs. "religious sincerity" vs. "big law demands.")

I am curious if applying to a 2L DEI scholarship as an observant jew would make sense. I think sabbath observant Jews, in many instances, do face subtle discrimination, and in my case, I grew up Chassidic with all those associated challenges (google "Chassidic education").

Curious to hear what people think!

At least at my v10, they are designed to help the visual diversity of the office/firm, not the religious/ideological/thought/background/experience/any other kind. Not here to debate whether visual diversity is a reasonable proxy for those kinds.

I'd add that visual diversity isn't everything — I've seen plenty of white passing hispanic women given DEI scholarships in the past too. Very unclear what is the sweet spot for DEI committees

Did they have hispanic-sounding last names? That's probably "sweet enough."

Yes they did

Shoot your shot. I'd say that a practicing Jew would be diverse for us (a Chassidic Jew, and we are in middle USA), but I don't think you'll get it. I think it's really meant for folks who are Black/Hispanic. I'm half Hispanic/MENA (don't look it though) and did not get much of anything in the way of help on that front. Best of luck.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:03 pm

Are Jews even a minority in big law? At my NY firm it feels like you’re a minority if you’re not Jewish.

Yeah really. In my last practice group (finance-related, in NYC) only two people WEREN’T Jewish. And a solid chunk of the Jewish folks were observant. FYI Jewish people are about 2-4% of the US population, so they are definitely overrepresented at my firm (that includes observant and secular, both are technically overrepresented compared to the percentage of the overall population). Idk if DEI scholarships were really meant for overrepresented groups. Maybe it would be OK at like a midwestern firm.

Of course I’m sympathetic to the difficulties of being an observant Jew in biglaw, but I’m just not sure that a DEI scholarship is the way to go here, since they seem to be targeted to groups that are underrepresented in biglaw?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:43 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 25, 2022 11:03 pm

Are Jews even a minority in big law? At my NY firm it feels like you’re a minority if you’re not Jewish.

Yeah really. In my last practice group (finance-related, in NYC) only two people WEREN’T Jewish. And a solid chunk of the Jewish folks were observant. FYI Jewish people are about 2-4% of the US population, so they are definitely overrepresented at my firm (that includes observant and secular, both are technically overrepresented compared to the percentage of the overall population). Idk if DEI scholarships were really meant for overrepresented groups. Maybe it would be OK at like a midwestern firm.

Of course I’m sympathetic to the difficulties of being an observant Jew in biglaw, but I’m just not sure that a DEI scholarship is the way to go here, since they seem to be targeted to groups that are underrepresented in biglaw?

And how many are from a true Hasidic background (i.e. first gen, no traditional schooling past elementary school level, etc)?

OP, you won't get it but doesn't hurt to apply.

OP don't do this. In fact, do everything you can to minimize your yeshiva background until you have an offer. Then join the affinity group if you want. Hatzlacha.

Don’t do this. You are the farthest thing from an underrepresented minority.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:20 am

OP don't do this. In fact, do everything you can to minimize your yeshiva background until you have an offer. Then join the affinity group if you want. Hatzlacha.

Curious why you still say this. OP was referring to the new GDC initiative, which may be showing that winds are blowing in another direction. Instead of hiding as I (and probably you) did, OP can bring their whole self or something cliché like that.
IMO it probably depends on how Chassidic OP is although I would lean not to apply