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KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:22 pm
by Anonymous User
Anyone remember the KE NYC real estate group thread from a few months ago (i.e., how terrible the partners are, etc)? Did we ever figure out if the stories noted on that thread were true? Considering that group and am SCARED. Interviewed with them and did not get good vibes (one partner looked like he literally slept in the office for multiple days in a row).
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:48 pm
by Anonymous User
deer hears wolf in woods, goes anyway
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:22 am
by Anonymous User
I've specifically been warned against that group by people who worked there. It's not just an online thing.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:55 am
by Anonymous User
Are the warnings you've received NY specific? Or firm wide for RE? Anybody with insight on the LA group?
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:28 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:55 am
Are the warnings you've received NY specific? Or firm wide for RE? Anybody with insight on the LA group?
It was Chicago specific, as it happens.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:25 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:55 am
Anybody with insight on the LA group?
Had a chat with a partner at a competing firm who dismissed it as mostly a service practice (albeit one with hopes of being more).
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:54 pm
by Anonymous User
heard through the associate grapevine that the group hired 5 first years a few years ago with the idea that they would stay for at least 3-5 years. Within 2 ish years, all 5 had quit - most went to competing firms like gibson and 1 went to a smaller firm. if they were willing to go to firms with the same work life/similar clients, it means that the KE group must have been toxic af.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 10:09 pm
by Anonymous User
i sincerely hope at least 1 of the 5 gives us more details here......please so us law students are properly warned.
in all seriousness...have heard the NY group is HORRIBLE. There's 1 partner there who is maybe late 30s/early 40s and he looks like he's a zombie that's about to die soon
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 3:24 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:22 pm
Anyone remember the KE NYC real estate group thread from a few months ago (i.e., how terrible the partners are, etc)? Did we ever figure out if the stories noted on that thread were true? Considering that group and am SCARED. Interviewed with them and did not get good vibes (one partner looked like he literally slept in the office for multiple days in a row).
I'm a bit confused. There was a thread full of people warning you away, and you make another trying to verify if that thread, full of credible anecdotes somehow became untrue in a month?
I mean short of someone fully outing themselves you're never going to see the fire, but good god, look at all this smoke.
Fwiw I was at KE for 2.5 years and had several friends in RE who all said it was toxic and left the firm. The stories they had were WILD. Obviously I can't know firsthand if the one about the guy that had a heart attack and was still berated for not working enough is true, but I heard it from multiple different real estate associates separately.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:05 pm
by Anonymous User
I interviewed as a 3L for a K RE in Chicago.
I had just accepted a different offer and let the partner know.
His response? A scoff-laugh and a "You dont know what a mistake you just made, I hope it was a great offer", and I said, "yes, thank you, have a nice day, goodbye".
I fucking KNEW in that moment it was the right decision. I have never, ever, in my entire professional life before law school and after been more sure of an employment decision.
I came across the last thread and remember wanting to describe that interaction...
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:59 am
by Anonymous User
Cosigning that KE RE must be bad as my old coworker just left after less than 6 months and the grass wasn't that green before or after his stint at KE.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:48 pm
by Anonymous User
lol an associate in the KE RE group in NYC left after just one year to become Counsel at Major League Baseball. Guess it was so bad he left to do something completely different!
No wonder the 5 junior associates mentioned above left so quickly. I saw that they went to Gibson, etc. I wish there was a way to see if they're still in biglaw/practicing real estate. I heard through the grapevine that a couple of them practice in different areas now but not 100% sure. The rumors truly are flying when it comes to KE RE, especially NYC and Chi.
fwiw, i hope these stories dampen KE RE recruiting going forward. Just the other day, I saw a linkedin post about an innocent law student excited about accepting an offer to join KE RE
I looked up the partners mentioned on the other post (Chris Hartmann and Jonathan Schechter - and yikes they do not look like fun people to work for
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:17 pm
by Anonymous User
https://imgur.com/a/fzSeTZz
Here you go. This is only from 2019-2022, and it's 17 people, only in the Chicago office. I didn't include their names but if you go on Firm Prospects it's all there. This level of attrition is insane.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:20 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:48 pm
lol an associate in the KE RE group in NYC left after just one year to become Counsel at Major League Baseball. Guess it was so bad he left to do something completely different!
No wonder the 5 junior associates mentioned above left so quickly. I saw that they went to Gibson, etc. I wish there was a way to see if they're still in biglaw/practicing real estate. I heard through the grapevine that a couple of them practice in different areas now but not 100% sure. The rumors truly are flying when it comes to KE RE, especially NYC and Chi.
fwiw, i hope these stories dampen KE RE recruiting going forward. Just the other day, I saw a linkedin post about an innocent law student excited about accepting an offer to join KE RE
I looked up the partners mentioned on the other post (Chris Hartmann and Jonathan Schechter - and yikes they do not look like fun people to work for
I'm a former KE associate, am not a fan of the firm, and am friends with the guy who left. I don't really have anything to say other than that he left after nearly 2 years at the firm, not 1. But, yeah, don't join KE real estate if you have any reasonably good offers (like DLA or Barack in Chicago).
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:42 pm
by Anonymous User
I'm at KE but in a completely different group, so not much skin in the game but plenty of curiosity. Do the partners in real estate or, even above them, on the Firm Committee understand what's going on, i.e., the extreme reputational and attrition problems that are occurring? Are they trying to do anything to fix it? Because the group sure sounds like shit for incoming associates based on what's being said here.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:17 pm
by lawlo
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:42 pm
I'm at KE but in a completely different group, so not much skin in the game but plenty of curiosity. Do the partners in real estate or, even above them, on the Firm Committee understand what's going on, i.e., the extreme reputational and attrition problems that are occurring? Are they trying to do anything to fix it? Because the group sure sounds like shit for incoming associates based on what's being said here.
I think it's been made abundantly clear in the past few years that KE leadership does not give one shit about associates.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:36 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:17 pm
https://imgur.com/a/fzSeTZz
Here you go. This is only from 2019-2022, and it's 17 people, only in the Chicago office. I didn't include their names but if you go on Firm Prospects it's all there. This level of attrition is insane.
That's brutal. And in many cases, the exit looks... Less than what I'd might expect as a K&E associate. Which leads me to think people are desperate to get the hell out.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:19 am
by Anonymous User
lawlo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:17 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:42 pm
I'm at KE but in a completely different group, so not much skin in the game but plenty of curiosity. Do the partners in real estate or, even above them, on the Firm Committee understand what's going on, i.e., the extreme reputational and attrition problems that are occurring? Are they trying to do anything to fix it? Because the group sure sounds like shit for incoming associates based on what's being said here.
I think it's been made abundantly clear in the past few years that KE leadership does not give one shit about associates.
Unfortunately, what I've found as a lateral to KE is that they say all the right things when recruiting laterals, but once you arrive all that to a large extent disappears. This includes both in terms of $ and non-$ resources/support. (I'm a lateral to K&E but not in RE).
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:01 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:19 am
lawlo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 7:17 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 1:42 pm
I'm at KE but in a completely different group, so not much skin in the game but plenty of curiosity. Do the partners in real estate or, even above them, on the Firm Committee understand what's going on, i.e., the extreme reputational and attrition problems that are occurring? Are they trying to do anything to fix it? Because the group sure sounds like shit for incoming associates based on what's being said here.
I think it's been made abundantly clear in the past few years that KE leadership does not give one shit about associates.
Unfortunately, what I've found as a lateral to KE is that they say all the right things when recruiting laterals, but once you arrive all that to a large extent disappears. This includes both in terms of $ and non-$ resources/support. (I'm a lateral to K&E but not in RE).
Can you give some specific examples where you feel like KE resources / support aren't there? I'm at KE. There are plenty of criticisms you could level at this place but I've never felt they're ungenerous. I've been at other biglaw firms with far more nickel and diming than I've experienced here; resources have always felt present.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:29 pm
by Anonymous User
Can confirm that Scott Berger, the head of the Kirkland NY RE group, is not allowed to work with associates because he’s screamed at so many associates.
Can also confirm that a friend of mine told Jonathan schechter (the other head of the group) that she was on track for a 300 hour month and his response was (1) so what the corporate associates do that and (2)good you’re finally working……
They are all monsters. No amount of $$ is worth it to work for such terrible people.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:32 pm
by Anonymous User
For what it’s worth, the partners in NY who do corporate support in the RE group are wonderfully nice people.
It’s only the traditional RE partners in that group who are monsters.
Has anyone spoken to current associates in the KE RE NY group? So curious if they’ve seen these posts/if this is influencing them to lateral.
Re: KE Real Estate
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:59 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:29 pm
Can confirm that
Scott Berger, the head of the Kirkland NY RE group, is not allowed to work with associates because he’s screamed at so many associates.
Can also confirm that a friend of mine told Jonathan schechter (the other head of the group) that she was on track for a 300 hour month and his response was (1) so what the corporate associates do that and (2)good you’re finally working……
They are all monsters. No amount of $$ is worth it to work for such terrible people.
"Not allowed" by who? If he's the head of the group, who would be able to tell him that? Surely not HR?
And if its a Bigger Boss from like the central K&E management committee, wouldn't they also take steps to fix the culture if they are implicitly acknowledging it? Or they don't care so long as the group gets a rotating door of fresh blood every year?