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In terms of prestige, they're the same. For white collar/investigations, they're the same. If you got a better vibe from Wilmer, go to Wilmer. I think I would only say to do something else if you weren't sure you were interested in lit; if you think you might want to try more corporate work, this probably flips to S&C given breadth.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:19 pmI'm deciding between Sullivan & Cromwell (NYC) and WilmerHale (NYC). I'm interested in lit/white collar/investigations. I got a better vibe from Wilmer, but wondering if S&C is significantly more prestigious (i.e., will lead to better exit opportunities or more interesting work). Any thoughts? Thank you!
This is not really true anymore, especially in white collar.
All we have is chambers and there S&c is band one and wilmer is band two so seems to still be the caseAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:40 amThis is not really true anymore, especially in white collar.
Also, did I say white collar only? I said lit in general (including white collar). OP said lit, white collar, etc. I don’t know what you are basing your opinion on, but S&C is one of the top NYC lit firms. Wilmer is not. Just observing a fact here.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:15 pmAll we have is chambers and there S&c is band one and wilmer is band two so seems to still be the caseAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:40 amThis is not really true anymore, especially in white collar.
Damn did you not get an offer or something, all I know is that NYU the average offeree is above a 3.6 which is in the top 20% of the class so they must be doing something rightAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
Clearly a 3L who’s going to Wilmer.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
This is a nuts take lol. It's just a big law firm that like any has great practice areas and some that are less stellar. White collar happens to be a strong suit of its. There is no firm uniting "island of misfit toys" a-social culture for the same reason that none of these firms have uniting cultures. S&C's office is 650 attorneys, and that is simply too many people for there to be such a thing. This reads like someone with a personal bone to pick lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
Right? You can say you didn't vibe with S&C without going this far.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:12 amThis is a nuts take lol. It's just a big law firm that like any has great practice areas and some that are less stellar. White collar happens to be a strong suit of its. There is no firm uniting "island of misfit toys" a-social culture for the same reason that none of these firms have uniting cultures. S&C's office is 650 attorneys, and that is simply too many people for there to be such a thing. This reads like someone with a personal bone to pick lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
The take may be extreme but I think it's true that Wilmer litigation associates are generally happier and more well-rounded people than their counterparts at S&C. At least that's the consensus among the New York biglaw circles I run in.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:13 amRight? You can say you didn't vibe with S&C without going this far.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:12 amThis is a nuts take lol. It's just a big law firm that like any has great practice areas and some that are less stellar. White collar happens to be a strong suit of its. There is no firm uniting "island of misfit toys" a-social culture for the same reason that none of these firms have uniting cultures. S&C's office is 650 attorneys, and that is simply too many people for there to be such a thing. This reads like someone with a personal bone to pick lolAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
I'm not at either of these firms and did not interview with any of these firms when I was doing OCI. Have absolutely 0 grudges or sentimental attachments to either of these firms. I just remember this was more or less the take on S&C in my year at HYS. And if you took a look at the people in the year above and below me who went to S&C, it was a very distinct type of person... not individually toxic, but you add the white-shoe stuffiness/ old-schoolness of the office, created a toxic environment. 2 people in my class who spent their 2L summers (one NY, the other DC) are not going back for this reason (one is going to their "less prestigious" 1L firm, the other did some sort of networking into a boutique to avoid going back. Everything I've heard while practicing (from laterals and word on the street) matches the knock on S&C when I was going through it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:38 amClearly a 3L who’s going to Wilmer.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
Woah there, didn't know this person went to HYS, I've heard their extremely anecdotal advice phrased as personal experience is almost always 100% accurateAnonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:17 pmI'm not at either of these firms and did not interview with any of these firms when I was doing OCI. Have absolutely 0 grudges or sentimental attachments to either of these firms. I just remember this was more or less the take on S&C in my year at HYS. And if you took a look at the people in the year above and below me who went to S&C, it was a very distinct type of person... not individually toxic, but you add the white-shoe stuffiness/ old-schoolness of the office, created a toxic environment. 2 people in my class who spent their 2L summers (one NY, the other DC) are not going back for this reason (one is going to their "less prestigious" 1L firm, the other did some sort of networking into a boutique to avoid going back. Everything I've heard while practicing (from laterals and word on the street) matches the knock on S&C when I was going through it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:38 amClearly a 3L who’s going to Wilmer.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:26 amChiming in to say that S&C has a uniquely intolerable culture, particularly in NYC, and suits people who either are quite shy/ lack social skills/ abrasively academic to put it generously. On paper, they pull strong classes only because they take the above median leftovers that peer (and less prestigious) firms reject for cultural/fit reasons. Please ditch the toxic island of misfit toys known as S&C and its crusty NYC office for what is a peer firm. It'll be better for your career as you'll be able to stomach big law longer. Congrats on both offers by the way!
But look I have no direct experience, so take this as but one data point.