How to drink - professionally Forum

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 pm

I practice in the Midwest and a basic knowledge of craftish beer is probably more useful (especially for men) than a knowledge of wine or cocktails here. Imo Blue Moon is a safe bet--widely available, memorable, midrange, tastes pretty good and not much like alcohol. Or Belgian-style beers in general (e.g. Allagash White). If you like IPAs whatever IPA is on tap is almost certainly fine.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 pm
I practice in the Midwest and a basic knowledge of craftish beer is probably more useful (especially for men) than a knowledge of wine or cocktails here. Imo Blue Moon is a safe bet--widely available, memorable, midrange, tastes pretty good and not much like alcohol. Or Belgian-style beers in general (e.g. Allagash White). If you like IPAs whatever IPA is on tap is almost certainly fine.
I honestly can't tell if this (and specifically calling blue moon a craft beer) is trolling the midwest or serious.
Edited: apparently its been litigated (lol) https://consumerist.com/2016/06/20/judg ... ors-again/

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by SFSpartan » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 pm
I practice in the Midwest and a basic knowledge of craftish beer is probably more useful (especially for men) than a knowledge of wine or cocktails here. Imo Blue Moon is a safe bet--widely available, memorable, midrange, tastes pretty good and not much like alcohol. Or Belgian-style beers in general (e.g. Allagash White). If you like IPAs whatever IPA is on tap is almost certainly fine.
I honestly can't tell if this (and specifically calling blue moon a craft beer) is trolling the midwest or serious.
Edited: apparently its been litigated (lol) https://consumerist.com/2016/06/20/judg ... ors-again/
Think it depends where you practice but beer > wine and cocktails generally matches my experience w/ Michigan and Ohio. Would not be surprised if this were generally the case outside of Chicago...

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 pm
I practice in the Midwest and a basic knowledge of craftish beer is probably more useful (especially for men) than a knowledge of wine or cocktails here. Imo Blue Moon is a safe bet--widely available, memorable, midrange, tastes pretty good and not much like alcohol. Or Belgian-style beers in general (e.g. Allagash White). If you like IPAs whatever IPA is on tap is almost certainly fine.
Interesting. Do you mean just pick a style or two you like that isn't a cheapo light beer (bud/coors/etc.) and order that, or do you mean to suggest that you also need to know a thing or two about beer/that style/craft breweries? I've never met someone who judged another in a work setting for not knowing enough about beer, but I'm not from the midwest.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by nixy » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:47 pm

danishblue wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:07 pm
Would anyone like to weigh in on which drinks are considered gay or trans?
I would, but I'm terrified.
This isn’t at all funny.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:24 pm

It might not be funny, but it's reality, and the thread is about how to drink, so don't expect a Harvard Law Review article when you click on the thread. A guy in BigLaw who orders a drink topped with meringue, with a partner and a wealthy client present, and the bartender is whipping up egg whites, and looking for his mini blow torch, and the client and partner are rolling their eyes, and then the associate is on the flatliner track the following Monday.

Finishing School | A floral mule of Ciroc Red Berry vodka served with strawberry rhubarb rose syrup, citrus, ginger beer and plum bitters.

The above drink is for sale at Cosmo Vegas.

If you're a guy in BigLaw and you want to be a partner, don't order that drink with clients or partners present.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:41 pm

danishblue wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:24 pm
It might not be funny, but it's reality, and the thread is about how to drink, so don't expect a Harvard Law Review article when you click on the thread. A guy in BigLaw who orders a drink topped with meringue, with a partner and a wealthy client present, and the bartender is whipping up egg whites, and looking for his mini blow torch, and the client and partner are rolling their eyes, and then the associate is on the flatliner track the following Monday.

Finishing School | A floral mule of Ciroc Red Berry vodka served with strawberry rhubarb rose syrup, citrus, ginger beer and plum bitters.

The above drink is for sale at Cosmo Vegas.

If you're a guy in BigLaw and you want to be a partner, don't order that drink with clients or partners present.
There are plenty of gay guy partners in biglaw firms and some of them are even kinda feminine. Here's a relevant source: https://www.businessinsider.com/where-a ... ers-2010-3.

Not ordering a "gay" drink might make sense if you're at some conservative firm in a red state but otherwise this isn't really an issue. Is there any top law school that isn't aggressively pro-LGBT? Why would law firms be different?

Res Ipsa Loquitter

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Res Ipsa Loquitter » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:56 pm

I have no idea what we are talking about. Ordering a Tito’s and soda is not feminine, and even if it is, who cares? This is not a manly job by any means, anyway. My women colleagues are better at many aspects of this job, such as keeping shit organized.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:56 pm

Anon, above, may be correct. I'm old school and I'm putting myself in the shoes of the wealthy conservative client. And it's a given that as we age we become more conservative.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:56 am

it's crazy how neurotic you people are. I could order a sex on the beach or a cosmo in front of anybody (partner or client) and laugh it off if anybody asks me, and explain how i like the way it tastes, because i am normal. that's how normal people behave and nobody really cares that much about you or what you're doing - they're too busy thinking about themselves. just don't be weird.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:05 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:59 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 pm
I practice in the Midwest and a basic knowledge of craftish beer is probably more useful (especially for men) than a knowledge of wine or cocktails here. Imo Blue Moon is a safe bet--widely available, memorable, midrange, tastes pretty good and not much like alcohol. Or Belgian-style beers in general (e.g. Allagash White). If you like IPAs whatever IPA is on tap is almost certainly fine.
I honestly can't tell if this (and specifically calling blue moon a craft beer) is trolling the midwest or serious.
Edited: apparently its been litigated (lol) https://consumerist.com/2016/06/20/judg ... ors-again/
Blue Moon obviously isn't really craft, and I didn't say that it is. It's a pseudo-craft beer that's inoffensive and not going to raise any eyebrows, which is what OP asked for. The Midwest obviously has a large number of exceptional craft breweries, but you can't expect to find Toppling Goliath at an average bar, so that rec wouldn't be too useful.

Fwiw I'm not talking about Chicago, more the Midwestern secondary markets, which are all in big craft beer states.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 pm
I practice in the Midwest and a basic knowledge of craftish beer is probably more useful (especially for men) than a knowledge of wine or cocktails here. Imo Blue Moon is a safe bet--widely available, memorable, midrange, tastes pretty good and not much like alcohol. Or Belgian-style beers in general (e.g. Allagash White). If you like IPAs whatever IPA is on tap is almost certainly fine.
Interesting. Do you mean just pick a style or two you like that isn't a cheapo light beer (bud/coors/etc.) and order that, or do you mean to suggest that you also need to know a thing or two about beer/that style/craft breweries? I've never met someone who judged another in a work setting for not knowing enough about beer, but I'm not from the midwest.
More the former--IME, breweries and craft beer bars are very common places for law firms to do social events around here, and more generally for people to go out to, so it's good to have some idea of what to order. A deeper understanding doesn't hurt, as craft beer is a very common interest for young professional men, but it's not necessary.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:16 am

I think BigLaw in NYC is fairly conservative. So you need to ask yourself, what do I want to signal and how might it affect my career.
5 guy BigLaw first year associates go out for beer Friday evening. 4 order Heineken, you order Sex on the Beach. You can certainly do that, but why would you want to.
During the walk to the bar with the 4 associates, I take out my MAGA hat and put it on. I can certainly do that but why would I want to. Is it in any way sensible.
To Nixy above, the drink you order sends out a signal, and it should not be a taboo topic on this thread. If it is, then the whole thread should have been deleted as soon as it went up, but it seems like a pretty popular thread.
Picture me working on a BigLaw matter for David Geffen or Tim Cook of Apple (gay) and I want to wear my polka dot lavender bow tie to court. I run it by Geffen and Cook. They'd both say "I'd prefer if you dressed more conservatively, unless the Judge is gay. Being gay is fine but we really want to win the case."

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:42 am

danishblue wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:16 am
I think BigLaw in NYC is fairly conservative. So you need to ask yourself, what do I want to signal and how might it affect my career.
5 guy BigLaw first year associates go out for beer Friday evening. 4 order Heineken, you order Sex on the Beach. You can certainly do that, but why would you want to.
During the walk to the bar with the 4 associates, I take out my MAGA hat and put it on. I can certainly do that but why would I want to. Is it in any way sensible.
To Nixy above, the drink you order sends out a signal, and it should not be a taboo topic on this thread. If it is, then the whole thread should have been deleted as soon as it went up, but it seems like a pretty popular thread.
Picture me working on a BigLaw matter for David Geffen or Tim Cook of Apple (gay) and I want to wear my polka dot lavender bow tie to court. I run it by Geffen and Cook. They'd both say "I'd prefer if you dressed more conservatively, unless the Judge is gay. Being gay is fine but we really want to win the case."
If you think your average NYC biglaw associate/partner is going to be more offended by a dude ordering a sex on a beach than a MAGA hat you clearly have never been in biglaw.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:56 am

I'm not saying the 4 BigLaw associates who order Heineken will be offended by the guy ordering Sex on the Beach, I'm just asking how much sense it indicates.

Isn't it true that BigLaw NYC is still fairly conservative?

The MAGA hat analogy and the drink ordering have the common denominator of "signalling". And the polka dot lavender bow tie. I don't want to wear that tie when I interview for a Summer position.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:36 am

danishblue wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:56 am
I'm not saying the 4 BigLaw associates who order Heineken will be offended by the guy ordering Sex on the Beach, I'm just asking how much sense it indicates.

Isn't it true that BigLaw NYC is still fairly conservative?

The MAGA hat analogy and the drink ordering have the common denominator of "signalling". And the polka dot lavender bow tie. I don't want to wear that tie when I interview for a Summer position.
Dude how'd you get to be so out of touch? Are you even in biglaw? https://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2021 ... 21-edition.

TBH with today's push for diversity of all types wearing that bow tie or ordering a sex on the beach would probably be considered a plus. Why do you keep pushing this point when it's clear nobody agrees with you?

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:33 am

Would you wear my MAGA hat as we walk down the sidewalk of Manhattan to go to a bar 8PM Friday? Since we all embrace diverse points of view.
I guess I'm from a more conservative background so I have a distorted view of reality in BigLaw NYC.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:56 am
it's crazy how neurotic you people are. I could order a sex on the beach or a cosmo in front of anybody (partner or client) and laugh it off if anybody asks me, and explain how i like the way it tastes, because i am normal. that's how normal people behave and nobody really cares that much about you or what you're doing - they're too busy thinking about themselves. just don't be weird.
This is the correct response.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:16 am

danishblue wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:33 am
Would you wear my MAGA hat as we walk down the sidewalk of Manhattan to go to a bar 8PM Friday? Since we all embrace diverse points of view.
I guess I'm from a more conservative background so I have a distorted view of reality in BigLaw NYC.
Your English is atrocious (not just this post), and you are clearly incapable of answering direct questions. Do you just have a different view of BigLaw or are you actually in it? These aren't hard concepts bud, get with the picture. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about forming full sentences and less concerned about MAGA.

Speaking of which, you're 100% right that wearing a MAGA hat in those scenarios isn't a good idea. Whether you think that's the way the world should be or not is irrelevant to how to order a drink at a bar. I happen to think that BigLaw should take a broader view of diversity too, but you don't see me forcing a culture war debate on a thread about how to order a drink.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Res Ipsa Loquitter » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:22 am

danishblue wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:33 am
Would you wear my MAGA hat as we walk down the sidewalk of Manhattan to go to a bar 8PM Friday? Since we all embrace diverse points of view.
I guess I'm from a more conservative background so I have a distorted view of reality in BigLaw NYC.
I think you’re more likely to be a bored office worker sitting in India than anywhere near “BigLaw NYC”

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:30 am

danishblue wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:56 am

The MAGA hat analogy and the drink ordering have the common denominator of "signalling". And the polka dot lavender bow tie. I don't want to wear that tie when I interview for a Summer position.
Yeah but one signals “I support a highly divisive, controversial, and often violent political movement that has called for (and initiated attempts at) overturning democratic norms” while the other signals “I like sweet flavored drinks.” That’s why the analogy is stupid.

Wearing a blue suit also signals something, as does hanging an ISIS flag in my office. “What’s the difference between wearing a blue suit and having an isis flag herp derp they both signal stuff” is what you keep pushing here.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:45 am

I haven’t read this whole thread, so apologies if someone already made the observation.

Young lawyers should generally be aware that alcoholism is a real and serious problem in the legal profession. I’ve seen way more careers stunted (even ruined) by drinking than not drinking. There’s really very little to gain by “drinking professionally,” whereas there’s everything to lose by, say, drinking to excess at a client dinner or even a general work event.

I’m a drinker, by the way, so this isn’t coming from personal bias.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:20 am

Where’s Dooley? Is danish blue the latest resurrection of the same? The people want Florida man not maga 2nd year!

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:23 am

RedNewJersey wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:24 pm
lawlzschool wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:47 pm
Honestly can't believe no one has recommended grey goose for vodka??? Agree with tanqueray or hendricks for gin and patron and casamigos for tequila but would add corralejo. I don't drink anything in the whiskey family after too many bad nights (and worse mornings) in undergrad and would literally drink water or nothing instead if whiskey was the only option
Grey Goose is good, but its branding is such that some people might think of it as a "poor person's idea of a fancy liquor." It's kinda like a Rolex or a Ferrari, almost a stereotype of a luxury vodka. I don't think this is fair, necessarily, and if you like Grey Goose go for it, but it doesn't seem to match OP's request.
Is this trolling or have the two coasts gotten this far apart culturally? Glad I’m in california if y’all out east are looking at my liquor and calling me poor (sidenote: I AM poor, my T4 cost me some serious dollars). However maybe it’s just pauper me who still goes for the Cuervo, but if goose is too pricey wouldn’t Patron be too? And Hendricks as well? I think of those three in the same category (I.e. out of my price range) but one of the bartenders in this thread pls tell me I’m wrong (my firm doesn’t reimburse or serve hard liquor due to NALP guidelines so this has never been an issue for me anyway).

Also agree with knowing beers but be ready for 1. Someone to laugh and think you’re joking or 2. Argue with you/spend 10 mins talking about their fav Hazy if you call Blue Moon craft. Get whatever Pils they have on draught and then consider trying some sours/lagers/saisons (also light imo) or if you’re into heavies IPAs and Stouts are yer bois

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:23 am
RedNewJersey wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:24 pm
lawlzschool wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:47 pm
Honestly can't believe no one has recommended grey goose for vodka??? Agree with tanqueray or hendricks for gin and patron and casamigos for tequila but would add corralejo. I don't drink anything in the whiskey family after too many bad nights (and worse mornings) in undergrad and would literally drink water or nothing instead if whiskey was the only option
Grey Goose is good, but its branding is such that some people might think of it as a "poor person's idea of a fancy liquor." It's kinda like a Rolex or a Ferrari, almost a stereotype of a luxury vodka. I don't think this is fair, necessarily, and if you like Grey Goose go for it, but it doesn't seem to match OP's request.
Is this trolling or have the two coasts gotten this far apart culturally? Glad I’m in california if y’all out east are looking at my liquor and calling me poor (sidenote: I AM poor, my T4 cost me some serious dollars). However maybe it’s just pauper me who still goes for the Cuervo, but if goose is too pricey wouldn’t Patron be too? And Hendricks as well? I think of those three in the same category (I.e. out of my price range) but one of the bartenders in this thread pls tell me I’m wrong (my firm doesn’t reimburse or serve hard liquor due to NALP guidelines so this has never been an issue for me anyway).

Also agree with knowing beers but be ready for 1. Someone to laugh and think you’re joking or 2. Argue with you/spend 10 mins talking about their fav Hazy if you call Blue Moon craft. Get whatever Pils they have on draught and then consider trying some sours/lagers/saisons (also light imo) or if you’re into heavies IPAs and Stouts are yer bois
I happen to agree with Grey Goose comment, and would put Patron in the same category. I don't really know how to describe it. While it's definitely good vodka, when someone orders it, it says to me the person is trying too hard to go for the expensive stuff only because it's known for being expensive. It's just expensive enough to be luxury, but it's so ubiquitously coveted by the masses that it's almost embarrassing to say you want to spend your money on that. It goes hand in hand with the whole "labels in" mantra, or the awkwardness of a junior associate bragging about their entry level Merc.

To be fair, I wouldn't go so far as to say that OP shouldn't order it. I'm probably in the minority here. It's just that for whatever reason, there's a weird stigma associated with it in some circles, so it's safer to go for something cheaper. I'd rather drink less good vodka without the stigma. Am I a neurotic, elitist weirdo? Maybe. But people like me exist and it's up to OP how they deal with it.

Re: beer, maybe other places are different, but in Boston people don't drill you about your beer choices unless it's one of the cheap ones. People might ask why you ordered this beer or that one, but you're totally fine to just say "I just really like Pilsners and that's the first on the menu." When I ask about beer preferences/choices it's more of a conversation starter than a litmus test. But be prepared for more intense questioning if you start ordering IPAs. It's sort of cultish, so if you feel awkward saying you don't know much about IPAs but just like them then maybe it's best to avoid.

Again, I'm just offering recommendations based on my observations about alcohol culture. I'm not saying anything in here is obligatory/right/wrong/(un)reasonable. But these are things I've seen when drinking that OP may not have had a chance to observe yet. It's up to OP to decide how to respond.

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