How to drink - professionally Forum

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danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:58 pm

how dare

BigLawPartner

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by BigLawPartner » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:29 pm
I think OP's concern is totally reasonable, and, in fact, I think people who don't drink are a bit awkward to be around when drinking (it's a bit like going to a pool party, and a bunch of people wearing normal clothes ... it's fine, but would make me feel less comfortable in swim wear). Also people who know *nothing* about alcohol seem unsophisticated. Can you be fine? Sure. People can also be fine with serious stutters, but you wouldn't do that to yourself if you could help it. It's a minus (much like knowing *nothing* about baseball can sometimes be uncomfortable, so it's good to learn the basic rules and the names of the top 5 teams and players, etc.).

So, how do you fix it? I'm a big believer in researching then sticking with your results. A while ago I just bought a bunch of vodkas, blind taste-tested them, and picked my favorite. Now, I have a favorite vodka I default to--you can do the same thing with broader categories just to have *an* answer to build confidence so it's not awkward. Spend a few hours one day researching ("differences between types of beer" etc.), then make a list, and try a few things on your list. A few suggestions:

Cocktails: The goal is to get 2-3 cocktails you like and can order most places. Sure, you could try vodka soda, but that's a bit obvious and boring (or makes you look like you drink a *lot*--it can weirdly be both). Which 2-3? You probably won't like martinis, manhattans, old fashioned, negroni, sazerac, etc. Those are great, but they very much taste like alcohol, so you have to want that taste (which you don't). You might like margaritas, mojitos, daiquiris, moscow mule, French 75 (say "with vodka" if the gin-based standard is too gin-like), caipiranha. Rum and vodka are the most approachable alcohols usually, so Moscow Mule (vodka) and mojito (rum) are great options to try (white russians are also fun but looks kind of weird and will get Big Lebowski references). I'd say it's worth checking whether you like the aviation, the last word, or a paper plane. If so, it's a good go-to if the bartender is good at a cocktail bar (do NOT order it if there is a chance you'll have to explain it; people who like to talk about cocktails may not mind this, but you would not want the attention). If you tolerate whiskey, you might like a whiskey sour. Regrettably, it's hard to get low-alcohol cocktails reliably, and easy to drink them fast. Just stick to one or two.

Beer: There's all sorts of things, but you should probably stick with low-alcohol stuff. You might actually like hard ciders (Angry Orchard or Bold Rock are basic and worth trying). Otherwise, lagers and pilsners are all fairly light and crisp and moderately low in alcohol, and there's always a few options. Guinness is pretty low alcohol but a very different flavor. IPAs, stouts, porters, tripels, etc. are probably not worth trying for you. Think through what you might like, then just memorize a basic thing most places have and try that. I know someone who likes to order Shiner or Modelo, and it works great for him to have a go-to (and it's really hard to get hammered on these). Everything else is not reliably on any particular menu (saison, sour, gose, red ale, brown ale, witbier, shandy, hefeweizen, etc.--it's too hard to predict, so don't bother if you don't like them). The worst thing is looking over drinks and suffering paralysis because you don't have information to choose based on.

Wine: If you don't like decent red wine (say, a standard merlot, cabernet sauvignon, or whatever), then stick with sparkling wine. Don't call American, Italian, Spanish, etc. stuff "Champagne," but you can still order it. Honestly, wine takes forever to learn things about, and is not worth it because you won't seem good at it unless you put in inordinate effort. At work stuff, just match people or order the standard red wine people are getting (or sparkling wine).
Jesus. This guy can't be serious.

Res Ipsa Loquitter

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Res Ipsa Loquitter » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:13 pm

Sackboy wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:29 pm
Also people who know *nothing* about alcohol seem unsophisticated. Can you be fine? Sure. People can also be fine with serious stutters, but you wouldn't do that to yourself if you could help it.
Truly an awesome level of brain rot.
I can’t believe people are suggesting the OP read books about alcohol to educate himself — and that you need to be some kind of wine or cocktail expert to be “sophisticated” enough to be a cog in the biglaw machine.

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:11 pm

People like people who are like them. Many partnership decisions are made on that basis. For some, if you've gone through 4 years of high school, 4 years of undergrad, and 3 years of law school, and you haven't tasted beer, you may have an issue. And if you're with a wealthy client at the Bama/Vols game in October, and you won't touch a beer....

On a lighter note I'd advise you to avoid the 211 Steel Reserve Tallboys.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:18 pm

danishblue wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:11 pm
People like people who are like them. Many partnership decisions are made on that basis. For some, if you've gone through 4 years of high school, 4 years of undergrad, and 3 years of law school, and you haven't tasted beer, you may have an issue. And if you're with a wealthy client at the Bama/Vols game in October, and you won't touch a beer....

On a lighter note I'd advise you to avoid the 211 Steel Reserve Tallboys.
The point is more of a dislike for leisure drinking… OP never said they hadn’t tried drinks just that they are not good at it lol

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danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:29 pm

I'll never forget the time I was at Joel Robuchon in Vegas with a wealthy client. I brought in a 5 liter box of Vella Merlot and asked the waiter if he could chill my Jeroboam. The client and his wife found it hilarious and we got the $100m deal.

I even complained to the waiter about the $100 corkage fee, I said the corkage fee should not exceed the cost of the wine, which was $19 for the box.

I think that dinner got me the partnership.

Res Ipsa Loquitter

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Res Ipsa Loquitter » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:00 pm

danishblue wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:29 pm
I'll never forget the time I was at Joel Robuchon in Vegas with a wealthy client. I brought in a 5 liter box of Vella Merlot and asked the waiter if he could chill my Jeroboam. The client and his wife found it hilarious and we got the $100m deal.

I even complained to the waiter about the $100 corkage fee, I said the corkage fee should not exceed the cost of the wine, which was $19 for the box.

I think that dinner got me the partnership.
Low effort trolling.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:09 pm

Just order something you like - no one cares.

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:19 am

What about the good ol “dealers choice” ?

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:46 am

Biglaw partner. I wouldn’t say I judge people for not drinking, but I definitely notice. And while I don’t agree with all of the alcohol recommendations of the guy with the long post, I do think that not drinking - unless you have a religious reason - is a handicap, particularly since drinking is such an easy and universal way to socialize.

OP, I might try looking into wine (my drink of choice). A lot of young lawyers think they don’t like wine because the wine they drank in college or law school was crap and are amazed to discover they like it. Do some research, try a few $20 - $25 bottles of various wines, and see what you like. If you go to a good local wine shop, the staff will often be a very good resource, especially if you explain that you’re trying to learn about wine. If you don’t like it, that’s fine too, but it’s a much easier entry point into drinking than hard alcohol or cocktails.

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:51 am

how dare Res Ipsa.

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:06 am

An excellent tutorial on the dangers of excessive drinking can be found on YouTube, search "Mr Creosote, Monty Python".

Sackboy

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Sackboy » Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:46 am
I don’t I do think that not drinking - unless you have a religious reason - is a handicap, particularly since drinking is such an easy and universal way to socialize.
Interesting logic here.

It's OK to not drink if you have a religious reason.

BUT, the point of drinking is that you'll handicap your socialization if you don't.

SO, Muslims have some religious-based socialization super power that gets them through it without alcohol...

OR, Muslims can socialize just fine with a glass of water or coke in their hand and you're just a grown up frat boy still lightly hazing when acceptable.

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danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:36 am

Lawyer turned wine critic, Robert Parker, invented the 100 point wine rating scale. He won't do blind tastings anymore. Why? Guess. He's been embarrassed way too many times, picking a $5 bottle over a $200 bottle. And that's a wine expert. Imagine the dismal record a layperson would have.
Interesting trivia. Wine experts are called oenophiles. The word dates back to ancient times. When a wine expert would enter the room everyone would collectively moan "Oh no!".

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:46 am
Biglaw partner. I wouldn’t say I judge people for not drinking, but I definitely notice. And while I don’t agree with all of the alcohol recommendations of the guy with the long post, I do think that not drinking - unless you have a religious reason - is a handicap, particularly since drinking is such an easy and universal way to socialize.

OP, I might try looking into wine (my drink of choice). A lot of young lawyers think they don’t like wine because the wine they drank in college or law school was crap and are amazed to discover they like it. Do some research, try a few $20 - $25 bottles of various wines, and see what you like. If you go to a good local wine shop, the staff will often be a very good resource, especially if you explain that you’re trying to learn about wine. If you don’t like it, that’s fine too, but it’s a much easier entry point into drinking than hard alcohol or cocktails.
So weird....do you sniff people's glasses at receptions to check to see if there is alcohol in their drink? Do you think that you are better at socializing with a few drinks in you? If you "notice" but don't judge, what does that mean for you? This is just such an odd and, frankly, immature perspective that I am genuinely curious how you still have it in middle age

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:45 am

I think we should stop attacking each other and make oenophile jokes instead.

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:46 am

How many oenophiles does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

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danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:49 am

7
One to screw in the bulb
One to hold the ladder
and 5 to tell him that he should have bought a more expensive bulb

Res Ipsa Loquitter

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Res Ipsa Loquitter » Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:40 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:46 am
Biglaw partner. I wouldn’t say I judge people for not drinking, but I definitely notice. And while I don’t agree with all of the alcohol recommendations of the guy with the long post, I do think that not drinking - unless you have a religious reason - is a handicap, particularly since drinking is such an easy and universal way to socialize.

OP, I might try looking into wine (my drink of choice). A lot of young lawyers think they don’t like wine because the wine they drank in college or law school was crap and are amazed to discover they like it. Do some research, try a few $20 - $25 bottles of various wines, and see what you like. If you go to a good local wine shop, the staff will often be a very good resource, especially if you explain that you’re trying to learn about wine. If you don’t like it, that’s fine too, but it’s a much easier entry point into drinking than hard alcohol or cocktails.
So weird....do you sniff people's glasses at receptions to check to see if there is alcohol in their drink? Do you think that you are better at socializing with a few drinks in you? If you "notice" but don't judge, what does that mean for you? This is just such an odd and, frankly, immature perspective that I am genuinely curious how you still have it in middle age
You really think that was a “biglaw partner”? Clearly a kid LARPing.

VentureMBA

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by VentureMBA » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:29 am

The real answer here is that most lawyer's are so incredibly awkward that they're unable to function like normal people without alcohol.

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:31 am

Venture correct

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:37 am

It's pretty clear that OP shouldn't feel any pressure to drink because there really isn't any these days. Peer pressure is more often perceived than actual, so I bet a lot of this is in OP's head and most of OP's colleagues don't think twice about what OP orders.

But regardless of whether the pressure is actual or perceived, OP may still want to get more into alcohol. It can sometimes be easier to go with the flow than to live with your own feelings about bucking the trend. I have a friend who never got the taste for coffee/alcohol in undergrad, but started drinking both socially (and responsibly) as a consultant and is now a big fan (he even takes trips out to Napa on his own dime). Maybe OP is in the same boat. I don't think it's cringe to give recommendations as long as OP knows they don't have to do any of this to succeed, and that if they do start partaking, they should do so responsibly.

It would be helpful to get more intel on what advice OP is looking for. Are you looking for entry level knowledge? Somewhere to start? If so, are you interested in learning about particular types of alcohol (wine, mixed drinks, etc.)? Do you want to know what drinks are culturally appropriate for particular situations (though those lines are pretty much obsolete now)? Are you looking for ideas for things you might genuinely like given your current tastes?

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:51 am

Here's a whole different broad area to consider.
The drink that you order could signal sexuality.
Don't laugh. It's true.
I order a drink that requires the bartender to whip up egg whites and take out a blowtorch for a meringue topping.
The senior partner and the wealthy client are rolling their eyes.
There's more to all of this than meets the eye.

thisismytlsuername

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by thisismytlsuername » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:59 am

danishblue wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:51 am
Here's a whole different broad area to consider.
The drink that you order could signal sexuality.
Don't laugh. It's true.
I order a drink that requires the bartender to whip up egg whites and take out a blowtorch for a meringue topping.
The senior partner and the wealthy client are rolling their eyes.
There's more to all of this than meets the eye.
Is this fun for you? Do you think it's funny? Do you not have anything better to do? I genuinely don't get it.

danishblue

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Re: How to drink - professionally

Post by danishblue » Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:04 am

this is my tls user name.
Take a look at the title of the thread.
That you clicked on.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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