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Cov DC is by far and away the best firm on this list, yes. After that, Quinn LA also blows the competition out of the water.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:13 pmCleary and Debevoise are probably the strongest two. After them, Ropes/Sidley/Milbank/Weil. Technically Cov and Quinn are better than anyone else on this list, but they're also significantly more selective. White and Case and Cooley aren't as strong for lit iirc.
What in the 0L brainfuck?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:19 pmNY- Debevoise, Gibson, Paul Weiss, Skadden, Cleary, Kirkland
DC- Covington, Gibson, Williams, Kirkland
LA- Quinn, Gibson, Munger, O’melveny
Also, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
OP, for the love of god, go on Chambers and look there. They do this professionally. This list omits Cravath, Davis Polk, Latham, Weil - all strong NY lit shops.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:25 pmWhat in the 0L brainfuck?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:19 pmNY- Debevoise, Gibson, Paul Weiss, Skadden, Cleary, Kirkland
DC- Covington, Gibson, Williams, Kirkland
LA- Quinn, Gibson, Munger, O’melveny
NY - Includes Skadden and Kirkland, now cemented V10, on a V20 thread. Leaves out other strong lit/WC groups like S&C, DPW, Cravath.
DC - lists Gibson and Kirkland but not Latham, WilmerHale, A&P. Ok?
LA - Munger is not like the rest. O'Melveny is also not like the rest. And if you're going to list Quinn and Gibson, might as well list Latham too?
OP - ignore this idiotic post LOL
He said v20, which suggests he's talking about V11-20, not about the V10s. Cravath/DPW/S&C/Latham/GDC are all excellent for lit, obvs, but that's not the focus of this threadAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:28 pmOP, for the love of god, go on Chambers and look there. They do this professionally. This list omits Cravath, Davis Polk, Latham, Weil - all strong NY lit shops.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:25 pmWhat in the 0L brainfuck?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:19 pmNY- Debevoise, Gibson, Paul Weiss, Skadden, Cleary, Kirkland
DC- Covington, Gibson, Williams, Kirkland
LA- Quinn, Gibson, Munger, O’melveny
NY - Includes Skadden and Kirkland, now cemented V10, on a V20 thread. Leaves out other strong lit/WC groups like S&C, DPW, Cravath.
DC - lists Gibson and Kirkland but not Latham, WilmerHale, A&P. Ok?
LA - Munger is not like the rest. O'Melveny is also not like the rest. And if you're going to list Quinn and Gibson, might as well list Latham too?
OP - ignore this idiotic post LOL
OP seems like a 1L in desperate need of a reality check, Chambers, and the search function on TLS.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:32 pmHe said v20, which suggests he's talking about V11-20, not about the V10s. Cravath/DPW/S&C/Latham/GDC are all excellent for lit, obvs, but that's not the focus of this threadAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:28 pmOP, for the love of god, go on Chambers and look there. They do this professionally. This list omits Cravath, Davis Polk, Latham, Weil - all strong NY lit shops.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:25 pmWhat in the 0L brainfuck?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:19 pmNY- Debevoise, Gibson, Paul Weiss, Skadden, Cleary, Kirkland
DC- Covington, Gibson, Williams, Kirkland
LA- Quinn, Gibson, Munger, O’melveny
NY - Includes Skadden and Kirkland, now cemented V10, on a V20 thread. Leaves out other strong lit/WC groups like S&C, DPW, Cravath.
DC - lists Gibson and Kirkland but not Latham, WilmerHale, A&P. Ok?
LA - Munger is not like the rest. O'Melveny is also not like the rest. And if you're going to list Quinn and Gibson, might as well list Latham too?
OP - ignore this idiotic post LOL
Quinn happens to be headquartered in LA, FYI. Are people losing brain cells? OMM is not nearly as prestigious or selective as LW/GDC/Quinn, and listing it next to Munger is lunacy.
You automatically lose all claim to presteej when you advertise on billboardsAnonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:33 amQuinn happens to be headquartered in LA, FYI. Are people losing brain cells? OMM is not nearly as prestigious or selective as LW/GDC/Quinn, and listing it next to Munger is lunacy.
This isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
So you go to Y, where "median" is truly meaningless.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 amThis isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
Even from Yale, the notion that Kellogg would hire from median is absurd on its face. Maybe if you're a justice's child.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:39 amSo you go to Y, where "median" is truly meaningless.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 amThis isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
I literally know someone who was just hired at Kellogg with at best slightly above median grades. I don't know what their extenuating circumstances are - I don't know them super well, I just know they did not graduate with latin and did not have an appellate clerkship.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:48 amEven from Yale, the notion that Kellogg would hire from median is absurd on its face. Maybe if you're a justice's child.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:39 amSo you go to Y, where "median" is truly meaningless.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 amThis isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
I can't believe I'm about to defend Vault...Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 amThis isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
What? Susman couple hire that many associates in a heartbeat if they wanted to. They just don’t want to because overleverage isn’t their model. They could easily be Quinn if they wanted.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:29 pmI can't believe I'm about to defend Vault...Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 amThis isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
Some firms are just too small and new to matter in the popular consciousness of a profession. It's tough when you think your firm is great because of SCOTUS clerk this or YHS summa that, but most don't know the name and it doesn't pop up on Vault. But there is a good reason for this, specifically, Susman and other small lit firms can hire 25 decently strong first years, but they can't hire 150 strong first years.
The V10-15 will have far more top credentialed first-year associates per firm than any of the lit boutiques (going by numbers, not the percentage). Vault, as flawed as it is, takes this into account. If Susman could hire 150 top associates, people would know who they are. But they can't, so Susman and the others get punished with a low vault ranking.
Tell me you've never worked at a law firm without telling me you've never worked at a law firm.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:29 pmI can't believe I'm about to defend Vault...Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 amThis isn't true, Kellogg and Kaplan both hire from ~median at my school if you check certain boxes (partisanship, clerkships, the right undergrad)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:30 pmAlso, for lit firms, many elite ones are lower down the Vault rankings which is basically just a crowdpoll of what NYC corp associates think are the most presTTTigious firms. Ask top 10% 2Ls and 3Ls at your school - they'll know which ones are elite.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:03 pmWhat are the best V20 firms for litigation? NY/DC/LA are target markets. I’ve read V20 is a proxy for NY but that’s my number 1 market so probably useful to refer to. But curious about strength in lit specifically. Thanks!
Aside from lit boutiques (Susman, Kellogg, Bartlit, Kaplan, etc), notable ones down the Vault list include Munger, Jenner (DC), and Williams & Connolly. Any one of those three are more selective than any V10 firm not named Wachtell by multiple orders of magnitude.
Some firms are just too small and new to matter in the popular consciousness of a profession. It's tough when you think your firm is great because of SCOTUS clerk this or YHS summa that, but most don't know the name and it doesn't pop up on Vault. But there is a good reason for this, specifically, Susman and other small lit firms can hire 25 decently strong first years, but they can't hire 150 strong first years.
The V10-15 will have far more top credentialed first-year associates per firm than any of the lit boutiques (going by numbers, not the percentage). Vault, as flawed as it is, takes this into account. If Susman could hire 150 top associates, people would know who they are. But they can't, so Susman and the others get punished with a low vault ranking.