Top Law Schools

anyone have insight on how to figure out a female interviewer's marital status to know whether to put "Ms." or "Mrs." in the thank-you note? sometimes this information is publicly accessible or can be deduced through social media/age, but sometimes it isn't (especially with partners).

is the protocol to just ask them in the interview? or to err on the side of caution and start thank-you notes with both "Ms./Mrs. _________"...writing their full-name is so awkward...ugh help

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:13 am

anyone have insight on how to figure out a female interviewer's marital status to know whether to put "Ms." or "Mrs." in the thank-you note? sometimes this information is publicly accessible or can be deduced through social media/age, but sometimes it isn't (especially with partners).

is the protocol to just ask them in the interview? or to err on the side of caution and start thank-you notes with both "Ms./Mrs. _________"...writing their full-name is so awkward...ugh help

Title made this seem much more cringe than it is, but this has to be a trollolol. If it's not, then the convention in business is to use Ms. regardless of marital status, but more importantly just use their first name. I think there's a recent thread on this and there's absolutely no reason to go with the formal Mr./Ms. Last Name when addressing a thank you note, even if correspondence from the firm to you has been mostly Mr./Ms./Mrs.

/Thread

1. Do not write Mr./Ms/Mrs in emails. I don't know who is telling you kids to do this but stop. Say "Hi [first name]. So if your interviewer was Sarah Smith don't say Dear Ms. Smith, say Hi Sarah.

2. The whole point of the Ms. designation is to have a marriage neutral term equivalent to Mr. The old fashioned way was Miss for single women and Mrs. for married. I can't believe you didn't know this, but now you do. If you're in a social situation where honorific is appropriate and are not sure which to use, use Ms. But again, don't use honorific in an interview or thank you note. Use first names.

3. Do not creep on your interviewer's personal life this way. This makes me think this is dumb trolling tbh but I felt like answering anyway. But don't do this.

4. All this is just more reason not to write thank you emails. You freaks can't be trusted not to get weird about it.

You should definitely go into the interviews and ask your women interviewers what their marital status is, that will really make you stand out.

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:01 am

You should definitely go into the interviews and ask your women interviewers what their marital status is, that will really make you stand out.

It will certainly be memorable for all involved!

OP is probably a troll, but I have worked for a partner who changes "Ms." to "Mrs." in motions and briefs, even when the other side, who is aligned with the individual woman in question, uses "Ms." Makes me feel super awkward having my name on the papers.

And no, it's not something like residential real estate, family law, or estate planning where family relationships are more centered. It's biglaw business litigation.

And the partner is GenX!

(He's said disparaging things in the past about the existence of sexism etc. so there is no point in trying to push back more directly).

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:01 am

You should definitely go into the interviews and ask your women interviewers what their marital status is, that will really make you stand out.

Yeah but you got to be subtle about it. I always ask "so where do you and your boyfriend like to eat around town?" They never suspect my ulterior motives

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

good troll

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

Calling someone by their first name implies that they see themselves as being on an equal playing field? What the? Please out your "v8" firm so otherwise qualified candidates for your firm do not hurt themselves over this extremely questionable "prioritization."

State marriage records are usually public... just saying.

Or you can hire a PI to figure out their marital status. While you're at it, dig up some unsavory information and blackmail people into an offer.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

Calling someone by their first name implies that they see themselves as being on an equal playing field? What the? Please out your "v8" firm so otherwise qualified candidates for your firm do not hurt themselves over this extremely questionable "prioritization."

Yeah I want to know more about this v8. Turbocharged? Supercharged? NA? What kind of transmission you got it hooked to (and if it's not a manual get out of here you pleb).

jhett wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:44 pm

State marriage records are usually public... just saying.

Or you can hire a PI to figure out their marital status. While you're at it, dig up some unsavory information and blackmail people into an offer.

If you do this you don't even have to go to law school

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

As a share partner, I expect non share partners like yourself to salute me crisply when they pass by the hallway opposite my office. Extra points for clacking your heels together. We are not equals.

As a related question, when do associates get to stop standing at attention and saluting seniors/partners as they walk by in the halls. Is this a natural progression at like Y3 or something, or do I need to wait for each partner to tell me to stand down soldier?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

"V8" (lol?) equity partner here - excellent troll. 10/10. But just to be hypothetical about it, if this were serious, I can confidently say that I would do everything I could to ensure someone with this kind of view of the world doesn't get equity.

I like to park near her house and see if husband comes out in bathrobe to get newspaper off the lawn around 6AM.

This is a really silly thread, but one actually viable way of doing this would be to just subtly look at her hand for a wedding ring.

Even in that situation, I just can’t imagine starting any email in a professional context with “Mrs.”

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

In seriousness, I have had senior partners tell me off for saying "Hi XYZ" rather than just "XYZ," or "Team" as a salutation on emails to clients. It's another one of the pitfalls of thank you notes. If you want to be safe, dispense with the "Hi" and just say "Simon," or "Sally," as a salutation.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

You say this as a joke, but back in the day at a v10 it was made very clear to me by a counsel that I was to refer to certain ancient trusts & estates partners as "mr. xyz" rather than xyz. It does exist in certain circles.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:22 pm

TigerIsBack wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:10 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:27 am

If this isn't a troll, it's incredibly silly. Just use Ms. and move on

Or just stop being weird and say "Hi Sally, thanks for your time earlier today."

V8 non-equity partner here – at our firm, we actually prioritize candidates who respect seniority and authority. calling a partner by their first name is absolutely a sign that this law student, who hasn't billed an hour in their life, considers themselves on the same playing field as attorneys at the top of their practice...it won't "break" an otherwise strong candidate, but it can absolutely tiebreak

You say this as a joke, but back in the day at a v10 it was made very clear to me by a counsel that I was to refer to certain ancient trusts & estates partners as "mr. xyz" rather than xyz. It does exist in certain circles.

You mean that several years ago, it did exist, and as exception that proves the rule. You had to be told because even when you were young it wasn't typical. Even if such geriatric partners still exist, they are unlikely to be put in contact with applicants.

danishblue wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:52 am

I like to park near her house and see if husband comes out in bathrobe to get newspaper off the lawn around 6AM.

^it seems someone wants to check the marital status for other reasons

Being from the South and raised in a more traditional household, I was always taught to refer to people in authoritative positions as Mr/Ms [last name] until invited to address them otherwise. But this seems to be a cultural and regional thing, as colleagues from California/New York (and let's be honest, most students in top universities are from the greater New York region or California) are much more informal (some down south might use the term "rude"). Firms seem to track that in my experience, with (especially older) partners at more traditional southern firms presuming formality and partners at firms in New York/Chicago/California presuming informality.

The worst that could happen by being overly formal is being invited to be more informal in your communications. The worst that can happen by being informal is turning off someone that you need on your side in the hiring process. You'll probably be fine addressing interviewers by their first name, but why take a chance?

tl;dr: go with Ms. [last name] until invited otherwise because it's safe and respectful