CB to Offer Ratios Forum

[Anonymous User]

What do we know, by firm? =)

And I know pre-OCI has screwed things up a little, if the answer is dependent on time just give all the necessary context, thx

[Anonymous User]

From back when I did OCI a few years ago at my T6 it was generally seen that you have about a 50% CB to offer ratio, with a fairly tight distribution there. A few outliers would be S&C which offered ~90% of the people they gave CBs to and Davis Polk which only offered like ~30% of the people they gave CBs to. Said firms made up for this distribution on the front end though—i.e., Davis Polk gave a lot more CBs and S&C gave a lot less CBs.

This is all for NYC firms by the way. Don't have much familiarity with other firms, but from what I understand DC firms tend to be a bit more selective in their CBs than NY firms.

[Anonymous User]

At my DC firm (that does none or limited pre-OCI) it's about 50% because the yield ratio is lower

[Anonymous User]

Historically, S&C is between 90 and 100%. For some other major firms, based on my school's statistics:

Cleary: 80-90%
Covington: 50-60%
Cravath: 70%
DPW: 80%
GDC: 80% (LA is notably tougher at 50%)
Kirkland: 90% (NY) 50% (DC)
Latham: varies across offices, from 100% in DC to 50% in LA. NY is at 75%.
Milbank: 80%
MoFo: 75%
Munger: 50%
P,W: 100% (NY), 50% (DC)
Quinn: 90%
STB: 100%
Susman: 60%
WLRK: 60%
Wilmer: 50%
Williams and Connolly: 40%

Relatively few firms are sub 50%, and the big NY firms are usually 70%+, at least at my YSC

[Anonymous User]

Historically, S&C is between 90 and 100%. For some other major firms, based on my school's statistics:

Cleary: 80-90%
Covington: 50-60%
Cravath: 70%
DPW: 80%
GDC: 80% (LA is notably tougher at 50%)
Kirkland: 90% (NY) 50% (DC)
Latham: varies across offices, from 100% in DC to 50% in LA. NY is at 75%.
Milbank: 80%
MoFo: 75%
Munger: 50%
P,W: 100% (NY), 50% (DC)
Quinn: 90%
STB: 100%
Susman: 60%
WLRK: 60%
Wilmer: 50%
Williams and Connolly: 40%

Relatively few firms are sub 50%, and the big NY firms are usually 70%+, at least at my YSC

This is stunningly helpful, thanks. It might be higher at YSC (I don't go there) but I'm crossing my fingers.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Historically, S&C is between 90 and 100%. For some other major firms, based on my school's statistics:

Cleary: 80-90%
Covington: 50-60%
Cravath: 70%
DPW: 80%
GDC: 80% (LA is notably tougher at 50%)
Kirkland: 90% (NY) 50% (DC)
Latham: varies across offices, from 100% in DC to 50% in LA. NY is at 75%.
Milbank: 80%
MoFo: 75%
Munger: 50%
P,W: 100% (NY), 50% (DC)
Quinn: 90%
STB: 100%
Susman: 60%
WLRK: 60%
Wilmer: 50%
Williams and Connolly: 40%

Relatively few firms are sub 50%, and the big NY firms are usually 70%+, at least at my YSC

This is stunningly helpful, thanks. It might be higher at YSC (I don't go there) but I'm crossing my fingers.

If you have any specific firms I didn't list you'd like to know, I have the data and free time lol

[Anonymous User]

Historically, S&C is between 90 and 100%. For some other major firms, based on my school's statistics:

Cleary: 80-90%
Covington: 50-60%
Cravath: 70%
DPW: 80%
GDC: 80% (LA is notably tougher at 50%)
Kirkland: 90% (NY) 50% (DC)
Latham: varies across offices, from 100% in DC to 50% in LA. NY is at 75%.
Milbank: 80%
MoFo: 75%
Munger: 50%
P,W: 100% (NY), 50% (DC)
Quinn: 90%
STB: 100%
Susman: 60%
WLRK: 60%
Wilmer: 50%
Williams and Connolly: 40%

Relatively few firms are sub 50%, and the big NY firms are usually 70%+, at least at my YSC

This is stunningly helpful, thanks. It might be higher at YSC (I don't go there) but I'm crossing my fingers.

If you have any specific firms I didn't list you'd like to know, I have the data and free time lol

<3

Cooley LA, Kirkland LA, Sidley LA, Milbank diff offices (is the 80% NYC?), Debevoise NYC?

[Anonymous User]

Historically, S&C is between 90 and 100%. For some other major firms, based on my school's statistics:

Cleary: 80-90%
Covington: 50-60%
Cravath: 70%
DPW: 80%
GDC: 80% (LA is notably tougher at 50%)
Kirkland: 90% (NY) 50% (DC)
Latham: varies across offices, from 100% in DC to 50% in LA. NY is at 75%.
Milbank: 80%
MoFo: 75%
Munger: 50%
P,W: 100% (NY), 50% (DC)
Quinn: 90%
STB: 100%
Susman: 60%
WLRK: 60%
Wilmer: 50%
Williams and Connolly: 40%

Relatively few firms are sub 50%, and the big NY firms are usually 70%+, at least at my YSC

This is stunningly helpful, thanks. It might be higher at YSC (I don't go there) but I'm crossing my fingers.

If you have any specific firms I didn't list you'd like to know, I have the data and free time lol

I'd really like to know about Sidley Austin, Jones Day, and Covington Burling. All NYC.

[Anonymous User]

Historically, S&C is between 90 and 100%. For some other major firms, based on my school's statistics:

Cleary: 80-90%
Covington: 50-60%
Cravath: 70%
DPW: 80%
GDC: 80% (LA is notably tougher at 50%)
Kirkland: 90% (NY) 50% (DC)
Latham: varies across offices, from 100% in DC to 50% in LA. NY is at 75%.
Milbank: 80%
MoFo: 75%
Munger: 50%
P,W: 100% (NY), 50% (DC)
Quinn: 90%
STB: 100%
Susman: 60%
WLRK: 60%
Wilmer: 50%
Williams and Connolly: 40%

Relatively few firms are sub 50%, and the big NY firms are usually 70%+, at least at my YSC

This is stunningly helpful, thanks. It might be higher at YSC (I don't go there) but I'm crossing my fingers.

If you have any specific firms I didn't list you'd like to know, I have the data and free time lol

<3

Cooley LA, Kirkland LA, Sidley LA, Milbank diff offices (is the 80% NYC?), Debevoise NYC?

Cooley LA: 50% (but super small sample: 4 total cbs)
Kirkland LA: no data, but K&E in general is 80+% in non-DC offices
Milbank NY: Yep, that's the 80%
Milbank LA: really varied, they don't have much of a presence with us. Some years 100%, some 0, always 1-2 cbs total
Deb NY: 80%

Sadly not lots of info, but hope that helps!

[Anonymous User]

It does, thank you! Would also be curious if you have any screener to callback ratios, although that's probably tilted by your school too. It doesn't apply that much now that most schools are done with screeners but this stuff fascinates me

[Anonymous User]

It does, thank you! Would also be curious if you have any screener to callback ratios, although that's probably tilted by your school too. It doesn't apply that much now that most schools are done with screeners but this stuff fascinates me

Sure! Here you go (for all the firms I've discussed):

Cleary: 60%
Covington: Office dependent, but usually around 40%
Cooley: interviews as a unit, so hard to tell. 40% for all offices, but that doesn't take potential multi-office interviews into account
Cravath: 25%
DPW: 80%
Deb: 50%
GDC NY: 40%
GDC SF: 25%
GDC LA: 60%
GDC DC: 50%
Kirkland NY: 60%
Kirkland DC: 30%
Latham DC: 25%
Latham NY: 30%
Latham LA: 20%
Milbank NY: 60%
MoFo SF: 40%
Munger: 15%
P,W NY: 50%
P,W DC: 33%
Quinn: 70%
STB: 80%
Susman: 20%
SullCrom: 60%
WLRK: 25%
Wilmer: Office dependent, ranges from 70% (Palo Alto) to 15% (DC)
Williams & Connolly: 30%

Note that a lot of these firms have relatively small sample sizes, which likely inflates the total numbers. There's also a lot of overlap in certain firms (e.g. people targeting all the DC firms).

[Anonymous User]

As long as I'm posting data, thought I might as well do offer yield rates while I'm at it. Here goes (for last year only, because I don't want to deal with multiple spreadsheets):

Cleary: 15%
Covington: 35%
Cooley: 50%
Cravath: 25%
DPW: 20%
Deb: 25%
GDC NY: 0%
GDC SF: 25%
GDC LA: 25%
GDC DC: 65%
Kirkland NY: 20%
Kirkland DC: 33%
Latham DC: 50%
Latham NY: 66% (2/3 total)
Latham LA: 100% (called all of one person back)
Milbank NY: 0%
MoFo SF: 50%
Munger: 66%
P,W NY: 20%
P,W DC: 0%
Quinn: 0% at every office but SF, where 1 person made it 33%
STB: 0%
Susman: ranged from 33% to 100% based on office
SullCrom: 10%
WLRK: 33%
Wilmer: around 50% at all offices (except where it was 0%)
Williams & Connolly: 40%

Note that the vast majority of these firms had 1-4 people actually sign on. Of the offices I listed, only GDC DC had more than 5 summers.

[Anonymous User]

It does, thank you! Would also be curious if you have any screener to callback ratios, although that's probably tilted by your school too. It doesn't apply that much now that most schools are done with screeners but this stuff fascinates me

Sure! Here you go (for all the firms I've discussed):

Cleary: 60%
Covington: Office dependent, but usually around 40%
Cooley: interviews as a unit, so hard to tell. 40% for all offices, but that doesn't take potential multi-office interviews into account
Cravath: 25%
DPW: 80%
Deb: 50%
GDC NY: 40%
GDC SF: 25%
GDC LA: 60%
GDC DC: 50%
Kirkland NY: 60%
Kirkland DC: 30%
Latham DC: 25%
Latham NY: 30%
Latham LA: 20%
Milbank NY: 60%
MoFo SF: 40%
Munger: 15%
P,W NY: 50%
P,W DC: 33%
Quinn: 70%
STB: 80%
Susman: 20%
SullCrom: 60%
WLRK: 25%
Wilmer: Office dependent, ranges from 70% (Palo Alto) to 15% (DC)
Williams & Connolly: 30%

Note that a lot of these firms have relatively small sample sizes, which likely inflates the total numbers. There's also a lot of overlap in certain firms (e.g. people targeting all the DC firms).

Huh. I go to a T14-T6 and career services says first wave of callbacks is usually 13%-22%. After a couple of waves, they say the total callback # for all students doubles (but I doubt all firms increase or are turned down by students for callbacks equally). But I do think the difference between what my career services says and the above illustrates the power of YSC. Or our career services is also lowballing us to make us feel better.

[Anonymous User]

As long as I'm posting data, thought I might as well do offer yield rates while I'm at it. Here goes (for last year only, because I don't want to deal with multiple spreadsheets):

Cleary: 15%
Covington: 35%
Cooley: 50%
Cravath: 25%
DPW: 20%
Deb: 25%
GDC NY: 0%
GDC SF: 25%
GDC LA: 25%
GDC DC: 65%
Kirkland NY: 20%
Kirkland DC: 33%
Latham DC: 50%
Latham NY: 66% (2/3 total)
Latham LA: 100% (called all of one person back)
Milbank NY: 0%
MoFo SF: 50%
Munger: 66%
P,W NY: 20%
P,W DC: 0%
Quinn: 0% at every office but SF, where 1 person made it 33%
STB: 0%
Susman: ranged from 33% to 100% based on office
SullCrom: 10%
WLRK: 33%
Wilmer: around 50% at all offices (except where it was 0%)
Williams & Connolly: 40%

Note that the vast majority of these firms had 1-4 people actually sign on. Of the offices I listed, only GDC DC had more than 5 summers.

Damn on some of those zeros and the <20%s overall, obvi there are kids who would die to go there. How many years of data is this? SullCrom and DPW surprise me especially; why should Kirkland be higher than SullCrom? Maybe because SullCrom is rejecting the Kirkland people, like maybe DPW is rejecting the Deb? And why isn't WLRK higher lol? Who is picking anything over that? The DC and lit ones I maybe understand, like Munger and Susman and W&C and Quinn are all fighting each other and are good matches?

[Anonymous User]

As long as I'm posting data, thought I might as well do offer yield rates while I'm at it. Here goes (for last year only, because I don't want to deal with multiple spreadsheets):

Cleary: 15%
Covington: 35%
Cooley: 50%
Cravath: 25%
DPW: 20%
Deb: 25%
GDC NY: 0%
GDC SF: 25%
GDC LA: 25%
GDC DC: 65%
Kirkland NY: 20%
Kirkland DC: 33%
Latham DC: 50%
Latham NY: 66% (2/3 total)
Latham LA: 100% (called all of one person back)
Milbank NY: 0%
MoFo SF: 50%
Munger: 66%
P,W NY: 20%
P,W DC: 0%
Quinn: 0% at every office but SF, where 1 person made it 33%
STB: 0%
Susman: ranged from 33% to 100% based on office
SullCrom: 10%
WLRK: 33%
Wilmer: around 50% at all offices (except where it was 0%)
Williams & Connolly: 40%

Note that the vast majority of these firms had 1-4 people actually sign on. Of the offices I listed, only GDC DC had more than 5 summers.

Damn on some of those zeros and the <20%s overall, obvi there are kids who would die to go there. How many years of data is this? SullCrom and DPW surprise me especially; why should Kirkland be higher than SullCrom? Maybe because SullCrom is rejecting the Kirkland people, like maybe DPW is rejecting the Deb? And why isn't WLRK higher lol? Who is picking anything over that? The DC and lit ones I maybe understand, like Munger and Susman and W&C and Quinn are all fighting each other and are good matches?

As I said, this is only last year. If we look at other years there ends up being noise at some firms (some jump to 50% or even 100% in a given year). Again, we're only talking about a few people at each firm (though we've had some weird years--a couple years back Cravath had over 8 people accept). Usually though each firm gets 1-2 max.

As for the S&C/Kirkland thing, I think it's because Kirkland has a "nicer" vibe than S&C. For example, I'm doing cbs at both in the next couple days and from pre-cb networking K&E has definitely seemed cooler and more human than S&C. I'm actually leaning S&C due to my interests, but I could easily see a world where I leaned on feel more. As for DPW/Deb, unsure (but fuck Deb, I thought they loved me and I got the ding today).

[Anonymous User]

As long as I'm posting data, thought I might as well do offer yield rates while I'm at it. Here goes (for last year only, because I don't want to deal with multiple spreadsheets):

Cleary: 15%
Covington: 35%
Cooley: 50%
Cravath: 25%
DPW: 20%
Deb: 25%
GDC NY: 0%
GDC SF: 25%
GDC LA: 25%
GDC DC: 65%
Kirkland NY: 20%
Kirkland DC: 33%
Latham DC: 50%
Latham NY: 66% (2/3 total)
Latham LA: 100% (called all of one person back)
Milbank NY: 0%
MoFo SF: 50%
Munger: 66%
P,W NY: 20%
P,W DC: 0%
Quinn: 0% at every office but SF, where 1 person made it 33%
STB: 0%
Susman: ranged from 33% to 100% based on office
SullCrom: 10%
WLRK: 33%
Wilmer: around 50% at all offices (except where it was 0%)
Williams & Connolly: 40%

Note that the vast majority of these firms had 1-4 people actually sign on. Of the offices I listed, only GDC DC had more than 5 summers.

Damn on some of those zeros and the <20%s overall, obvi there are kids who would die to go there. How many years of data is this? SullCrom and DPW surprise me especially; why should Kirkland be higher than SullCrom? Maybe because SullCrom is rejecting the Kirkland people, like maybe DPW is rejecting the Deb? And why isn't WLRK higher lol? Who is picking anything over that? The DC and lit ones I maybe understand, like Munger and Susman and W&C and Quinn are all fighting each other and are good matches?

Different poster than OP. At least at my YSH, the people with WLRK offers typically recruited for lit and were choosing between them and one of the major DC lit firms, which pushed their yield rate down a bit (since it's less of a slam-dunk option for lit than for corporate or their other practice areas).

S&C NY and DPW NY tended to attract more general interest for folks bidding DC as good options in New York in case DC didn't work out, which probably meant more applications and more offers going out, whereas I think folks tended to self-select into a place like Kirkland.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks to both, makes sense.

@original YSC, wild that Kirkland appears "nicer" than any other firm, period. I like the people I like at Kirkland for the reasons I like them, and I would choose it under some circumstances, but routinely having associates compete to be able to bill more than the average of 2700 hours average isn't "nice," and there's only so many hours of either that fit can compensate for. Both fit and prestige (more prestige than Kirkland), on the other hand..... maybe see you at S&C.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks to both, makes sense.

@original YSC, wild that Kirkland appears "nicer" than any other firm, period. I like the people I like at Kirkland for the reasons I like them, and I would choose it under some circumstances, but routinely having associates compete to be able to bill more than the average of 2700 hours average isn't "nice," and there's only so many hours of either that fit can compensate for. Both fit and prestige (more prestige than Kirkland), on the other hand..... maybe see you at S&C.

Yeah, that's always to be considered. I think its because they trotted out a lot of young equity partners that could connect with us, while my S&C contacts have all be older former prosecutors so it just felt like there was more distance.

If I had to make the call right now, easily S&C=DPW>K&E=Cleary of the four I'm really considering at this point.

[Anonymous User]

You should take lots of these data with a huge grain of salt fwiw because they change *drastically* based on which school you go to ime. I have data at my lower T14 that looks a lot better for some firms and a lot worse for others in comparison to the data above.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have stats from a lower 14? Every school has the ability to provide this I guess but I don’t think it’s something my school makes available.