NYC vs. LA BL Culture Forum

[johndooley]

Bulge bracket banks rarely ever deal with “portcos” — that’s private equity terminology. VP is not very high up in IBD and I talk to VPs all the time about their “models” — some are clients, some are friends, some are family.

Personally I enjoy biglaw, and your campaign to make me cry uncle and admit I hate my job is in vain.

I know VP isn’t high up. That’s the point. You, as a lawyer, have zero input or oversight of their financial models. They have tons over your “legal work.”

You enjoy it because you have no hard skills or passions and your under utilized autism can help you push through what is a remarkably boring and unfulfilling life.

Actually I do have input, insofar as closing statements, post-closing adjustments and anything related to, you know, actually closing a deal. It’s my job to help them get that right.

As for the “model” that precedes signing, that’s as pointless as any legal document. The business principals know what they’re willing to pay or accept, so a bank’s financial model is box-checking exercise.

Your assertion that I have “under utilIzed autism” is offensive to people who actually do struggle with autism, and I think your time at TLS will be coming to a close shortly.

Lol the bankers’ numbers matter to a deal. You are a CYA measure in case it goes south, nothing more. Having a say over “closing statements” is pretty meager in terms of a rebuttal.

Most people successful in large firm life hate it. Something is “off” if you enjoy it like you have claimed.

Those statements translate to actual dollars being moved. They matter a ton to the front office PE guys. They just don’t matter to you because you know literally nothing about M&A, despite pretending to be an expert on everything.

Yea I’m sure the PE guys are on the edge of their seats worrying about indemnities and warranty insurance. It’s so riveting and important they probably look at your redlines and check the cross tabs.

Tellers’ jobs involve moving money too. Mine does not directly, somehow I am pretty sure I make more than you. YMMV.

Yeah, a direct adjustment to the purchase price can’t possibly matter to the PE client — a lawyer was involved, so it must be totally pointless and pathetic!

Lol. You cannot add value. You can only avoid messing up. Please look at BernieTrump’s old thread to this point. He was a cool guy before TLS scared him off with doxxing threats.

[Anonymous User]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

[johndooley]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

Apply cream.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. First time checking this thread since I posted originally lol. Boy was not what I was expecting hahaha. But sounds like LA is the way to go if I can see myself living in both cities!

[johndooley]

OP here. First time checking this thread since I posted originally lol. Boy was not what I was expecting hahaha. But sounds like LA is the way to go if I can see myself living in both cities!

Best of luck. You are choosing well.

[johndooley]

This thread is objectively unhinged

Straight up. OP asked about NYC v. LA. Why are people obsessed with comparing law to investment banking? So many threads devolve into this dumb shit.

Back on topic -- I am in a west coast office and have from time to time worked with partners/groups in NY. I remember thinking to myself at many points, "Man these NY people must not be getting all that much sleep."

"People" are not obsessed with it, lawyers are. Go on Wall Street Oasis, it is not even an argument there which is better because it is as clear as day. How many bankers wish they went to law school as they look back in middle age? How many lawyers regret their path? Lol............

Regarding NY v. LA, of course NY will on average have worse hours in any industry save maybe entertainment. It will be firm and office dependent. If you enjoy living in LA you probably will not like living in NYC and vice versa. Going to LA because there are slightly better hours is dumb.

Fair. By "people", I meant posters on TLS (i.e. lawyers).

Regarding NY v. LA, I was just speaking from my experience -- Wasn't trying to make a generalization. I agree it will be highly firm and office dependent.

Yea they are grossly insecure. Monochromatic Ouevre or whatever his username is had some funny rants on this, so many big law lawyers thinking they could have made it in IB and PE.

Most lawyers at large firms would seriously struggle with the LA dating market. They are best to stay in a colder climate where layering up can hide some baggage.

Dooley is truly the Andrew Tate of TLS, lmfao.

I have a degree from his school.

John Dooley
BA Hustler's University
JD Florida Coastal

[Anonymous User]

As soon as I saw that this thread had absolutely nothing to do with Orlando medmal, I knew johnny d would show up to chime in.

As someone who left finance at JPM for law, I will just add to the derailment discussion to say that I couldn't be happier. Finance was incredibly boring, I spent 90% of my time mindlessly making powerpoint presentations and plugging numbers into models that someone else had built. Left JPM for HYS --> biglaw --> COA clerkship --> biglaw, and have enjoyed all of those gigs far more than finance. If you don't have any experience in finance or biglaw, it's crazy to say that choosing one over the other is "a terrible career decision." Life, and even your career, can be about more than just how much money you make.

[johndooley]

As soon as I saw that this thread had absolutely nothing to do with Orlando medmal, I knew johnny d would show up to chime in.

As someone who left finance at JPM for law, I will just add to the derailment discussion to say that I couldn't be happier. Finance was incredibly boring, I spent 90% of my time mindlessly making powerpoint presentations and plugging numbers into models that someone else had built. Left JPM for HYS --> biglaw --> COA clerkship --> biglaw, and have enjoyed all of those gigs far more than finance. If you don't have any experience in finance or biglaw, it's crazy to say that choosing one over the other is "a terrible career decision." Life, and even your career, can be about more than just how much money you make.

Cool so you preferred litigation over finance. Not the point of my comments or comparisons. "Finance" probably meant public finance or some other non-prestigious group in your case. If you are working big law hours then you should care more about the money you are making.

[temp69420]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

[johndooley]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Incredible how thin skinned some TLS posters are. Getting totally butt hurt because someone says big law sucks when you can enter IB (a pretty common take).

[Anonymous User]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Incredible how thin skinned some TLS posters are. Getting totally butt hurt because someone says big law sucks when you can enter IB (a pretty common take).

Some posters provide original thoughts informed by experience or at least a synthesis of information. Other posters regurgitate the thoughts of others (and rehash TLS debates) in lengthy and predictable screeds.

[Anonymous User]

As soon as I saw that this thread had absolutely nothing to do with Orlando medmal, I knew johnny d would show up to chime in.

As someone who left finance at JPM for law, I will just add to the derailment discussion to say that I couldn't be happier. Finance was incredibly boring, I spent 90% of my time mindlessly making powerpoint presentations and plugging numbers into models that someone else had built. Left JPM for HYS --> biglaw --> COA clerkship --> biglaw, and have enjoyed all of those gigs far more than finance. If you don't have any experience in finance or biglaw, it's crazy to say that choosing one over the other is "a terrible career decision." Life, and even your career, can be about more than just how much money you make.

Cool so you preferred litigation over finance. Not the point of my comments or comparisons. "Finance" probably meant public finance or some other non-prestigious group in your case. If you are working big law hours then you should care more about the money you are making.

Ahh, got it. So let's disregard the opinion of someone who has actually worked in both fields that we are talking about and instead continue to spew nonsense. Sure, that makes perfect sense.

Plenty of AUSAs work way more than biglaw attorneys. Have they made a terrible career decision because they could be making more and working less hours? Your original comment was that anyone who chose law over finance when finance was an option made a terrible career decision. Are you standing by that or would you like to reframe (you seem to be excluding litigation now but haven't made that clear)?

[johndooley]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Incredible how thin skinned some TLS posters are. Getting totally butt hurt because someone says big law sucks when you can enter IB (a pretty common take).

Some posters provide original thoughts informed by experience or at least a synthesis of information. Other posters regurgitate the thoughts of others (and rehash TLS debates) in lengthy and predictable screeds.

Replace "thoughts of others" with "consensus." Most people would say IB/PE that an entering analyst has a more remunerative and prestigious career ahead of him than an entering 1st year associate, who will likely burn out or be forced out by year five and have to live a measly life in-house, doing the same drone work 50 hours a week and checking their okay 401k.

[johndooley]

As soon as I saw that this thread had absolutely nothing to do with Orlando medmal, I knew johnny d would show up to chime in.

As someone who left finance at JPM for law, I will just add to the derailment discussion to say that I couldn't be happier. Finance was incredibly boring, I spent 90% of my time mindlessly making powerpoint presentations and plugging numbers into models that someone else had built. Left JPM for HYS --> biglaw --> COA clerkship --> biglaw, and have enjoyed all of those gigs far more than finance. If you don't have any experience in finance or biglaw, it's crazy to say that choosing one over the other is "a terrible career decision." Life, and even your career, can be about more than just how much money you make.

Cool so you preferred litigation over finance. Not the point of my comments or comparisons. "Finance" probably meant public finance or some other non-prestigious group in your case. If you are working big law hours then you should care more about the money you are making.

Ahh, got it. So let's disregard the opinion of someone who has actually worked in both fields that we are talking about and instead continue to spew nonsense. Sure, that makes perfect sense.

Plenty of AUSAs work way more than biglaw attorneys. Have they made a terrible career decision because they could be making more and working less hours? Your original comment was that anyone who chose law over finance when finance was an option made a terrible career decision. Are you standing by that or would you like to reframe (you seem to be excluding litigation now but haven't made that clear)?

Lol, he could not hack it in whatever mediocre group he was in at JPM and is now justifying his shortcomings. An AUSA is involved in litigation, and the majority of my comments are directed at transactional law (I am a litigator, I am not attacking litigation as a career decision.........). Although I find a refusal to follow the money pretty dumb, I can understand the delusion of doing public service instead of providing for a family. Litigation is real law and a very distinct career choice whereas transactional law is essentially glorified paralegal work. You are a Word monkey, paid to redline and edit 130 page PSAs the economics of which you have no understanding. I am proud to be paid a percentage of winnings rather than based on how many hours I work like a field hand.

[Anonymous User]

This thread is objectively unhinged

Straight up. OP asked about NYC v. LA. Why are people obsessed with comparing law to investment banking? So many threads devolve into this dumb shit.

Back on topic -- I am in a west coast office and have from time to time worked with partners/groups in NY. I remember thinking to myself at many points, "Man these NY people must not be getting all that much sleep."

Regarding NY v. LA, of course NY will on average have worse hours in any industry save maybe entertainment. It will be firm and office dependent. If you enjoy living in LA you probably will not like living in NYC and vice versa. Going to LA because there are slightly better hours is dumb.

I used to work in entertainment. The hours and work environment are worse in NYC (although there is often more money to be made depending on your exact role). Filming in LA is cake in comparison.

[Anonymous User]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Thank you, so, so much, for this protip. The world is a brighter place now that I've blocked that hack of a human.

[Anonymous User]

It’s the correct take if you have no clue about the subject at hand. When we talk about IB and PE we are talking about investment bankers and front-office equity side PE. Neither of those jobs involve any “traders.” Sales and trading folks at a bank can be paid a ton, but that has almost nothing to do with the IB/PE path.

Most PE firms start at the associate level and don’t even hire analysts. As for banking, no analyst is making high 6 figures. Hedge funds are different, and the word “analyst” can mean many different things and refer to fairly senior personnel at a hedge fund.

I have no idea why people continue to come on here and spout off fabricated stories about the financial services industry. It’s a weird masochistic “law sucks” ritual that has little basis in reality. Talking about some star trader that Citadel is paying 7 figures to sit on a beach in Argentina, or a prop trader at DRW who won the International Math Olympiad as a kid, in relation to career prospects in finance, is like talking about Justin Bieber to assess the career prospects in music.

This is the better take. Junior folks in IB/PE make more than (non-WLRK/boutique) law firm associates, but not orders of magnitude more. Think ~1.5x-2x more money for ~1.25x-1.5x longer hours. They also have less career stability but generally better exit options. The gap between finance and law (both in terms of money and hours worked) has shrunk significantly in recent years.

It gets more pronounced at the senior levels though. Partners at Goldman can retire in their 40s with hundreds of millions in the bank (check out Phil Murphy or Corzine), no biglaw partner is making anywhere near that kind of money, even if they are managing partner or whatever. The upside in law, as a professional services industry, is fundamentally capped, in a way that finance/banking is not.

Corzine and Murphy both became rich through Goldman’s IPO. Please explain how getting rich by cashing out stock in a one-time IPO is a replicable strategy for getting rich. Should I also become an early employee at Facebook pre-IPO? The kiddos are out in force today.

David Solomon made $35 million last year. Jamie Gorman and Jamie Dimon made the same. And those numbers do scale down at smaller banks, but are still way higher than a biglaw managing partner can even dream of making. Being CEO, or a high impact C-suite role, at a bank is going to vastly eclipse biglaw partner comp, and the job is massively more enjoyable as well. The top rung of finance comp absolute eclipses law comp in every possible way. It's completely insane to make believe that lawyers and bankers have similar comp ranges as you get more senior.

It’s completely insane to even bring up being CEO of Goldman Sachs. My original point, which was a fair point, is that law is a bit less impressive in NYC because so many other people make equal or greater money.

Since there are only a handful of big bank CEOs, they have nothing to do with this conversation. Should OP go into show business because the CEOs of Disney and Warner Brothers make bank?

Also top biglaw partners at kirkland make 20 million now (I don't see a huge delta between 20 and 35m). 10m has become fairly common at top firms - I wouldn't be surprised if there are more biglaw partners making 5M + than people in high finance (numbers wise).

It’s actually up to $25m now at Kirkland, though that may regress a bit if last year’s record profits aren’t repeated.

[johndooley]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Thank you, so, so much, for this protip. The world is a brighter place now that I've blocked that hack of a human.

Yea, RIL is pretty annoying.

[johndooley]

This thread is objectively unhinged

Straight up. OP asked about NYC v. LA. Why are people obsessed with comparing law to investment banking? So many threads devolve into this dumb shit.

Back on topic -- I am in a west coast office and have from time to time worked with partners/groups in NY. I remember thinking to myself at many points, "Man these NY people must not be getting all that much sleep."

Regarding NY v. LA, of course NY will on average have worse hours in any industry save maybe entertainment. It will be firm and office dependent. If you enjoy living in LA you probably will not like living in NYC and vice versa. Going to LA because there are slightly better hours is dumb.

I used to work in entertainment. The hours and work environment are worse in NYC (although there is often more money to be made depending on your exact role). Filming in LA is cake in comparison.

Interesting. Probably fewer Weinstein types in NYC entertainment than LA but who knows.

[Anonymous User]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Thank you, so, so much, for this protip. The world is a brighter place now that I've blocked that hack of a human.

Yea, RIL is pretty annoying.

It's pretty funny that this joke only makes sense if Dooley affirmatively knows he's a shit human, and there's no way I could have been referring to RIL.

[johndooley]

I was going to write that Dooley does not add value and I find it tiring to scroll past his compilation of copy-paste comments, then I remembered that TLS allows me to block his comments.

If you have both JD and RIL blocked, this thread looks like a long blank page with people occasionally noting how far it has been derailed.

Thank you, so, so much, for this protip. The world is a brighter place now that I've blocked that hack of a human.

Yea, RIL is pretty annoying.

It's pretty funny that this joke only makes sense if Dooley affirmatively knows he's a shit human, and there's no way I could have been referring to RIL.

I don't know how being irksome to indebted 30-somethings slaving away 2000+ billables a year equates to being a "shit human." I am rich, law-abiding, and have a family. A lawyer who is such a wuss he has to use the anonymous feature to hide his pseudonym criticizing another pseudonym is absolutely pathetic.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I love you Dooley, but you didn’t go to a top undergrad and you work in medmal in Orlando — which apparently is going great for you, and we’re all very happy for you. What’s confusing is how you gained all this inside knowledge about how amazing high finance is and how pathetic biglaw is, when you seem to have no first hand experience with either.

As said in another thread, I worked in hospitality in FL (not Orlando) that gave me a lot of access and contact to people from these fields. Everyone from your suburban dentist pulling 500k a year to F500 CEOs. I picked up on their anxieties, their regrets, what they like about their job, how many houses they have, and I am intelligent enough to connect the dots. The firm lawyers were not only the least fun, they also tipped very poorly. So yes, I completely agree with the poster in another thread who said lawyers are not NYC "elites" (and accordingly shouldn't brag about living in NYC) whereas financiers can be.

So your views in this thread are based on your experience working for tips at hotels or restaurants in South Florida? That makes a ton of sense.

[johndooley]

I love you Dooley, but you didn’t go to a top undergrad and you work in medmal in Orlando — which apparently is going great for you, and we’re all very happy for you. What’s confusing is how you gained all this inside knowledge about how amazing high finance is and how pathetic biglaw is, when you seem to have no first hand experience with either.

As said in another thread, I worked in hospitality in FL (not Orlando) that gave me a lot of access and contact to people from these fields. Everyone from your suburban dentist pulling 500k a year to F500 CEOs. I picked up on their anxieties, their regrets, what they like about their job, how many houses they have, and I am intelligent enough to connect the dots. The firm lawyers were not only the least fun, they also tipped very poorly. So yes, I completely agree with the poster in another thread who said lawyers are not NYC "elites" (and accordingly shouldn't brag about living in NYC) whereas financiers can be.

So your views in this thread are based on your experience working for tips at hotels or restaurants in South Florida? That makes a ton of sense.

I already explained how this was not the case. I think you should read the thread.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I love you Dooley, but you didn’t go to a top undergrad and you work in medmal in Orlando — which apparently is going great for you, and we’re all very happy for you. What’s confusing is how you gained all this inside knowledge about how amazing high finance is and how pathetic biglaw is, when you seem to have no first hand experience with either.

As said in another thread, I worked in hospitality in FL (not Orlando) that gave me a lot of access and contact to people from these fields. Everyone from your suburban dentist pulling 500k a year to F500 CEOs. I picked up on their anxieties, their regrets, what they like about their job, how many houses they have, and I am intelligent enough to connect the dots. The firm lawyers were not only the least fun, they also tipped very poorly. So yes, I completely agree with the poster in another thread who said lawyers are not NYC "elites" (and accordingly shouldn't brag about living in NYC) whereas financiers can be.

So your views in this thread are based on your experience working for tips at hotels or restaurants in South Florida? That makes a ton of sense.

I already explained how this was not the case. I think you should read the thread.

don't need to read the thread to know you are wrong about nearly everything when it comes to biglaw/NYC/"elite" brass rings like private schooling

If you were within 1000 miles of actual experience with any of these things it'd be tempting to take you seriously every so often. But Google says you're a healthy 1075 miles down I-95.

[johndooley]

I love you Dooley, but you didn’t go to a top undergrad and you work in medmal in Orlando — which apparently is going great for you, and we’re all very happy for you. What’s confusing is how you gained all this inside knowledge about how amazing high finance is and how pathetic biglaw is, when you seem to have no first hand experience with either.

As said in another thread, I worked in hospitality in FL (not Orlando) that gave me a lot of access and contact to people from these fields. Everyone from your suburban dentist pulling 500k a year to F500 CEOs. I picked up on their anxieties, their regrets, what they like about their job, how many houses they have, and I am intelligent enough to connect the dots. The firm lawyers were not only the least fun, they also tipped very poorly. So yes, I completely agree with the poster in another thread who said lawyers are not NYC "elites" (and accordingly shouldn't brag about living in NYC) whereas financiers can be.

So your views in this thread are based on your experience working for tips at hotels or restaurants in South Florida? That makes a ton of sense.

I already explained how this was not the case. I think you should read the thread.

don't need to read the thread to know you are wrong about nearly everything when it comes to biglaw/NYC/"elite" brass rings like private schooling

If you were within 1000 miles of actual experience with any of these things it'd be tempting to take you seriously every so often. But Google says you're a healthy 1075 miles down I-95.

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- "'Man' (Questionable) Whose Income is Under Seven Figures"