Change Offer Forum

[Anonymous User]

I accepted an offer at a firm but now want to change it

[Anonymous User]

I accepted an offer at a firm during the pre-OCI sessions. It's a great firm, so I accepted it. But, having completed the OCIs, I've also received an offer at another a firm that offers a class bump and has practice areas that I'm more interested in, whereas the first firm doesn't.

The first firm seems to have a better office, better people, better training opportunities, and (on paper) a lower billable hours requirement. But goddamn, the money that goes with the class bump, and actually being in a practice area that I'm more interested in is pretty appealing.

Both firms are in NYC and are V20 firms. I've read online that reneging for a different market or some substantial upgrade is acceptable, but since these are pretty similar in terms of reputation and they're in the same market, I don't know whether it's worth the reputational risk for the class bump.

So, is it worth it, and if so how can I renege an early offer?

Why did you accept an offer pre-OCI if it wasn't your #1 choice? Was it Latham with the 2 week turnaround or something?

This is on you - you should not accept an offer if you have any intention of reneging in the future or are considering other options, full stop. Guessing you're a JD/MBA - law is a more insular and connected field than even finance or consulting, so reneging here will burn that bridge forever and quite possibly tarnish your reputation at other firms too - recruiting managers tend to be very well connected.

I get this if you were, say, lit-focused and Latham NY gave you two weeks to decide & were your only pre-OCI offer. Then you went through OCI for W&C DC who offered, and you reneged on Latham. At that point, it's really on Latham for overestimating their pull and implementing a firm-friendly offer strategy. But if it was a normal pre-OCI offer (mid-August or two-three weeks after start of OCI to decide), then this is 100% on you and will reflect very poorly on your professionalism if you reneged.

Another point - it's on you to figure out which firms offer class year bumps & have practice area strengths you're interested BEFORE you apply, and DEFINITELY BEFORE you accept an offer.

You accepting an offer, even for a big summer class, impacts other students - other students at your school & peer schools with a similarly competitive GPA who had their applications denied because YOU accepted. Some of these students will have other options, sure. For others, this may have been their one shot at a V20 offer, or even a biglaw offer outright. This firm may have been someone else's dream firm. It's incredibly selfish to renege now when you consider the above.

Anyways, for action items: even mentioning that you went through OCI after accepting a pre-OCI offer will harm your reputation at the firm (especially if you threaten to renege and not just ask nicely), but hopefully for you, perhaps not beyond the recruiting staff or committee. If you want to risk that, you could ask your firm (they are your firm now that you've accepted an offer) to match the class year bump. They'll likely decline, and in this case it does hurt to ask, but your choice douchebag.

[industrialstylebest]

I accepted an offer at a firm during the pre-OCI sessions. It's a great firm, so I accepted it. But, having completed the OCIs, I've also received an offer at another a firm that offers a class bump and has practice areas that I'm more interested in, whereas the first firm doesn't.

The first firm seems to have a better office, better people, better training opportunities, and (on paper) a lower billable hours requirement. But goddamn, the money that goes with the class bump, and actually being in a practice area that I'm more interested in is pretty appealing.

Both firms are in NYC and are V20 firms. I've read online that reneging for a different market or some substantial upgrade is acceptable, but since these are pretty similar in terms of reputation and they're in the same market, I don't know whether it's worth the reputational risk for the class bump.

So, is it worth it, and if so how can I renege an early offer?

Almost certainly not worth it. In addition to your personal reputation hit, consider that the firm likely relied on your acceptance to reject other applicants, maybe even from your school. This is incredibly selfish to even consider.

It was your duty as an applicant to research firms and develop an application strategy that would allow you to consider all of your options before making a decision. Reneging would mean that you a) failed this duty and b) negatively impacted others through your failure.

It was your duty to withdraw any outstanding applications/offers when you accepted and to stop applying to other firms. Again, consider that the other firms likely held off on extending offers to other applicants because yours was still open, and that you took away interviews from students for whom OCI was their best or perhaps only shot at biglaw.

Anyways, you're a jerk for not withdrawing from other firms and OCI after accepting your offer, and you'd be an even bigger jerk if you reneged. If you're an actual asshole and none of this matters for you, yes - the reputation hit you'd take would likely outweigh any professional or financial benefit.

[Barry grandpapy]

I accepted an offer at a firm during the pre-OCI sessions. It's a great firm, so I accepted it. But, having completed the OCIs, I've also received an offer at another a firm that offers a class bump and has practice areas that I'm more interested in, whereas the first firm doesn't.

The first firm seems to have a better office, better people, better training opportunities, and (on paper) a lower billable hours requirement. But goddamn, the money that goes with the class bump, and actually being in a practice area that I'm more interested in is pretty appealing.

Both firms are in NYC and are V20 firms. I've read online that reneging for a different market or some substantial upgrade is acceptable, but since these are pretty similar in terms of reputation and they're in the same market, I don't know whether it's worth the reputational risk for the class bump.

So, is it worth it, and if so how can I renege an early offer?

Almost certainly not worth it. In addition to your personal reputation hit, consider that the firm likely relied on your acceptance to reject other applicants, maybe even from your school. This is incredibly selfish to even consider.

It was your duty as an applicant to research firms and develop an application strategy that would allow you to consider all of your options before making a decision. Reneging would mean that you a) failed this duty and b) negatively impacted others through your failure.

It was your duty to withdraw any outstanding applications/offers when you accepted and to stop applying to other firms. Again, consider that the other firms likely held off on extending offers to other applicants because yours was still open, and that you took away interviews from students for whom OCI was their best or perhaps only shot at biglaw.

Anyways, you're a jerk for not withdrawing from other firms and OCI after accepting your offer, and you'd be an even bigger jerk if you reneged. If you're an actual asshole and none of this matters for you, yes - the reputation hit you'd take would likely outweigh any professional or financial benefit.

This is a troll post, right? "Your duty..." - lmfao.

To OP:

Renege if you want to renege imho.

[Anonymous User]

Hi OP here,

So, just to clarify, would there be any actual repercussions apart from burning a bridge the initial firm? If not, should I just e-mail the firm and tell them that I unfortunately cannot join them next summer, and accept the offer of the second firm? Sorry if I'm coming off as neurotic or a jerk.

[enibs]

First reply is almost surely a joke, but for OP, why didn’t you just get an extension on the pre-OCI offer if you wanted to do OCI? Most if not all schools require firms to keep pre-OCI offers open for two or three weeks after OCI in order to give students the ability to participate in OCI. Too late in your case, but that’s really the way to go.

Also, if you’re going to renege, I’d recommend that you tell your new firm that you had accepted an offer from another firm but that you prefer them, and make sure they don’t raise an objection. In an earlier era there were some firms that would not take a student who had already accepted elsewhere. Firms are probably more cut-throat about competing for students today, but the last thing you want to do is burn your bridges with the pre-OCI firm and then have a problem with the offer from the new firm.

[Pneumonia]

Almost certainly not worth it. In addition to your [other nonsense]

This is horrible advice. On the off chance that it is intended earnestly, I will respond to it.

The hiring partners and associates at Firm 1 would uniformly tell you to renege if indeed Firm 2 is your preference. At worst they will be disappointed that they didn't land you, or they will just forget about you. More likely they will wish you well in your career and be happy that you made the right choice for you. If you gave them the chance they might try to persuade you why their firm is better, but that's it. In no case would they want you to accept an offer out of guilt or "duty" or anything dumb like that. They want the relationship to be mutual. "Law firms" are not disembodied entities; they are collections of humans. The normal rules of human interaction apply. Consider the analogy to dating, for instance.

Your reputation would not take a hit for the reasons listed above. No one cares. This happens every year. And by the way, firms know that this is a heightened risk with pre-OCI. They know what they are doing. As long as you withdraw professionally, your reputation will be fine--maybe even better. By "professionally" I mean call the partners who hired you, explain that you have to withdraw, explain why if they ask, be gracious, and thank them for their time and consideration. Don't duck out only by sending an email to recruiting (but even that would be fine).

Previously rejected candidates, if any, are no reason for you to make a dumb decision now. Even if the causation were direct, they have already been rejected. You can't change that. But in reality, the firm will hire however many people it wants to hire. Last I checked there are still about an order of magnitude more law students looking for jobs than there are biglaw jobs. Also, the firm COUNTS on a certain number of renegs every year. They have seen it before so they take into account in hiring.

It is not selfish for you to make what you consider to be the "best" choice of firm for beginning your career. Your career is yours. Not your school's. Not your peers'. You should start it wherever you want to.

You don't have a duty to accept the first offer you get. You don't have a duty to develop an application strategy. You don't have a duty to consider how your application strategy, if any, will affect your peers. As long as you are operating in good faith, then you are fine. Don't keep ten offers open. Don't accept multiple offers at a time. But beyond that, it is a false suggestion that you have anything like a duty "not to change your mind." The firms certainly don't consider themselves to have any such reciprocal duty.

It was not your duty to stop applying to other firms. In an ideal world, you would have. And the timing would have been better. And pre-OCI wouldn't be happening at all (because it exacerbates this sort of issue). And you could have gotten an extension on your deadline to accept. But none of that happened. You haven't done the OCI process before; you aren't expected to be perfect at it. No one is. Also, even if you strategically got the early offer to hedge in case you missed getting an offer doing regular OCI, that is fine too. It is your career. You have every right to hedge and to try to protect your chances at getting an offer somewhere.

Beyond the baseline good faith discussed above, you don't have any responsibility to your fellow students or to students from other schools. You didn't take away interviews from anyone. Firms can interview as many people as they want. You didnt' take away offers from anyone. Firms know that people reneg and they plan for it. (Indeed, overhiring has always been the primary worry at firms I have worked at). The spots that firms want filled will get filled. Firm 1 will find someone else.

You are not a jerk for hedging your bets, changing your mind, or reneging (if you so choose). The reputational risks are nonexisant as long as you withdraw professionally.

As for which firm you should pick, I don't have any advice. But don't let the scaremongering from what appears to be a disgruntled law student influence your decision.

[enibs]

Although I agree with the advice that OP should make the decision they believe is in their best interest (subject to my caveat that they should be transparent with firm 2), I don’t agree that firm 1 won’t care or would even encourage OP to renege. When a student reneges on an offer at our firm, it’s very annoying. The student has taken a place that would have gone to someone else, and the pool that’s left at the point the student reneges is not the same. No we’re not going to try to harm the student’s reputation, but the bridge will be burned at our firm if the student were ever to want to apply again down the road. Not enough of a consequence for the student not to renege if that’s their choice, but student should assume that there will be no coming back to firm 1.

As for the notion that “The firms certainly don't consider themselves to have any such reciprocal duty,” are you serious?? You think a firm would renege on an offer to a student because they found another student they liked better? Imagine the hue and cry on this board if a firm did that. About the only time a firm reneges on an offer is if they’re in dire straits economically. And even during the Great Recession, firms generally deferred offers if they had to rather than revoking them.

[BeeTeeZ]

I accepted an offer at a firm during the pre-OCI sessions. It's a great firm, so I accepted it. But, having completed the OCIs, I've also received an offer at another a firm that offers a class bump and has practice areas that I'm more interested in, whereas the first firm doesn't.

The first firm seems to have a better office, better people, better training opportunities, and (on paper) a lower billable hours requirement. But goddamn, the money that goes with the class bump, and actually being in a practice area that I'm more interested in is pretty appealing.

Both firms are in NYC and are V20 firms.

So you are a rising 2L, and along with your SA offer the v20 firm agreed to hire you after graduation as a second-year attorney? That would be very weird, but otherwise I don't know why you would assume a class bump and factor that into your decision.

[nixy]

I accepted an offer at a firm during the pre-OCI sessions. It's a great firm, so I accepted it. But, having completed the OCIs, I've also received an offer at another a firm that offers a class bump and has practice areas that I'm more interested in, whereas the first firm doesn't.

The first firm seems to have a better office, better people, better training opportunities, and (on paper) a lower billable hours requirement. But goddamn, the money that goes with the class bump, and actually being in a practice area that I'm more interested in is pretty appealing.

Both firms are in NYC and are V20 firms.

So you are a rising 2L, and along with your SA offer the v20 firm agreed to hire you after graduation as a second-year attorney? That would be very weird, but otherwise I don't know why you would assume a class bump and factor that into your decision.

They could be a JD-MBA - I've seen people talk about firms offering a class bump in that situation.

[Anonymous User]

I reneged three times, finding better jobs each time. The hiring partners and associates will forget about you sooooo quickly.

Do it professionally.

You will always regret not going to the firm that you want.

But make sure a “class bump” is really all that great. I’d rather go where the work and people are better. It’s worth about 50k to me. No joke. I know that sounds privileged but damn, I don’t need money in Biglaw. I need good partners and associates.

[Pneumonia]

Although I agree with the advice that OP should make the decision they believe is in their best interest (subject to my caveat that they should be transparent with firm 2), I don’t agree that firm 1 won’t care or would even encourage OP to renege. When a student reneges on an offer at our firm, it’s very annoying. The student has taken a place that would have gone to someone else, and the pool that’s left at the point the student reneges is not the same. No we’re not going to try to harm the student’s reputation, but the bridge will be burned at our firm if the student were ever to want to apply again down the road. Not enough of a consequence for the student not to renege if that’s their choice, but student should assume that there will be no coming back to firm 1.

Certainly it is annoying, I agree. But would your firm really prefer a candidate whose attitude is "look, I don't want to be here, I want to be at Firm 2, but I can't go there (even though I got an offer) because I feel guilty?" That's not a good way to start an employment relationship. Or any other relationship. Firms are not extending summer offers as such. They are trying to use the summer program to hire employees who will contribute to the firm's profitability over at least a 3-4 year timeline. Someone who comes for a summer but then leaves halfway through their first year does the opposite. Better to rip the bandaid early, even if that means drawing from a narrower pool once the bandaid is ripped. At the firms I've worked at, no one would have cared about a previously (professionally) reneged offer in analyzing a candidate as a post-clerkship or lateral candidate. It just wouldn't matter.

As for the notion that “The firms certainly don't consider themselves to have any such reciprocal duty,” are you serious?? You think a firm would renege on an offer to a student because they found another student they liked better? Imagine the hue and cry on this board if a firm did that. About the only time a firm reneges on an offer is if they’re in dire straits economically. And even during the Great Recession, firms generally deferred offers if they had to rather than revoking them.

Point taken on the narrow question whether a firm would switch offers between two candidates in such a transparent manner. I was intending to attack the broader notion that firms view offers as binding against future economic or circumstantial developments, or as creating any sort of "duty" beyond a few months' paycheck in the summer. The firm wouldn't renege an offer if they found a better candidate; they would just have both candidates join the summer program and then cold offer the lesser candidate (or assign them to another practice group, etc.). That is exactly what happens when firms overhire by accident, which they do with some frequency. My point was that firms view the hiring process as a transactional enterprise, not the exercise of solemn duty or anything similar. Given that backdrop--in which duty as a driving factor in decisionmaking is not reciprocal--candidates should not feel beholden to decide between firms based on duty.

[Anonymous User]

Guess I'm in the minority here but reneging leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't understand the mindset of going through OCI after having accepted an offer. You accepted an offer based on the information you had, and that information hasn't changed. But whatever, that's my personal opinion. You'll be fine, beyond burning the bridge with Firm A.

[Lesion of Doom]

I think OP should not have accepted an offer if OP knew they were going to undertake OCIs. Not a huge deal and they should reneg if that’s what they want to do, but I’m not as casual about this as some of y’all.

And this is coming from someone who believes associates generally owe firms less than they think they do.

The issue is you might have fucked over a classmate. We have quasi-formal quotas for certain schools, and if someone reneged that school may not place anyone in our class for that cycle. Again, I think OP should reneg, but it’s not the best turn of events.

[LBJ's Hair]

I agree that you should probably do what's best for you, but also agree that (a) the firm will be annoyed, and (b) you're backing out of a job that could have gone to a classmate, which is kinda shitty.

like if you knew you wanted to do OCI, you should have sat on the offer / asked for an extension, not accepted it and done OCI anyway. be in the same place you are now, without the headache of annoying the firm, annoying career services, etc