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Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:03 pm
by Anonymous User
Hi, please help me decide which firm woupd be my best choice.
All in NY. Interested in transactional. Practice area I am interested is undecided (but m&a, capital markets, investment management seem appealing).
Willkie is headquarterd in NY, whereas sidley and ropes are not. Both are great firms in chicago and boston, but not sure how their ny satelite offices are like. Which would you pick?
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
by Res Ipsa Loquitter
Wonder who’s voting and why Willkie takes the cake here. I thought most TLSers follow vault, in which case Sidley would win.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:24 pm
by Sackboy
Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
Wonder who’s voting and why Willkie takes the cake here. I thought most TLSers follow vault, in which case Sidley would win.
They're pretty much identical firms in terms of PPP/RPL; however, Sidley is a Chicago HQ'd firm, and Willkie is NY HQ'd firm. For NYers and people into NY biglaw, that means something. They're somewhat xenophobic in a sense. Any other market might as well be a foreign country. It's the same reason why they reject Kirkland so hard despite it trouncing many of NYers most frothed over firms in PPP/RPL. It's also the same reason why Fried Frank, Shearman, Schulte, and Cahill all get more airtime than they would if people just followed Vault. To some degree, being at the HQ of a firm is important, but when you're talking about firms that have sizable offices in your city that aren't merely "satellite" offices with 20 people you've moved past that point.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:28 pm
by Res Ipsa Loquitter
Sackboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:24 pm
Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
Wonder who’s voting and why Willkie takes the cake here. I thought most TLSers follow vault, in which case Sidley would win.
They're pretty much identical firms in terms of PPP/RPL; however, Sidley is a Chicago HQ'd firm, and Willkie is NY HQ'd firm. For NYers and people into NY biglaw, that means something. They're somewhat xenophobic in a sense. Any other market might as well be a foreign country. It's the same reason why they reject Kirkland so hard despite it trouncing many of NYers most frothed over firms in PPP/RPL. It's also the same reason why Fried Frank, Shearman, Schulte, and Cahill all get more airtime than they would if people just followed Vault. To some degree, being at the HQ of a firm is important, but when you're talking about firms that have sizable offices in your city that aren't merely "satellite" offices with 20 people you've moved past that point.
Agreed, I don't think the NY office of any V20 can fairly be called a "satellite" -- but law students seem to think non-HQ = automatically a satellite. Are people turning down offers at Latham and Gibson for this reason, too?
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:34 pm
by existentialcrisis
Weird Willkie hate.
Aside from just being a “Hq” they’re also very good at all the basic corporate stuff in NY, easily better than Sidley at most of it.
Ropes could definitely be a better choice depending on what your specific interests are, especially if you wanna do PE stuff.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:57 pm
by Anonymous User
I voted Wilkie and I'm actually in Chicago. These are all excellent firms and it's silly to focus so much on vault rankings. Marginal advantage due to being the HQ.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:58 pm
by Anonymous User
Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:28 pm
Sackboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:24 pm
Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
Wonder who’s voting and why Willkie takes the cake here. I thought most TLSers follow vault, in which case Sidley would win.
They're pretty much identical firms in terms of PPP/RPL; however, Sidley is a Chicago HQ'd firm, and Willkie is NY HQ'd firm. For NYers and people into NY biglaw, that means something. They're somewhat xenophobic in a sense. Any other market might as well be a foreign country. It's the same reason why they reject Kirkland so hard despite it trouncing many of NYers most frothed over firms in PPP/RPL. It's also the same reason why Fried Frank, Shearman, Schulte, and Cahill all get more airtime than they would if people just followed Vault. To some degree, being at the HQ of a firm is important, but when you're talking about firms that have sizable offices in your city that aren't merely "satellite" offices with 20 people you've moved past that point.
Agreed, I don't think the NY office of any V20 can fairly be called a "satellite" -- but law students seem to think non-HQ = automatically a satellite. Are people turning down offers at Latham and Gibson for this reason, too?
hmm idk about gibson but no way latham ny would be considered satellite office haha. almost 700 attorneys in ny, largest office of the firm (second largest being london office, LA office has less than 300 lawyers), and more than half of executive committee are in new york - it's a global firm but ny definitely feels more like the center
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:49 am
by Wild Card
Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:00 pm
Wonder who’s voting and why Willkie takes the cake here. I thought most TLSers follow vault, in which case Sidley would win.
Sidley is more selective than Ropes and Willkie. Like, 3.3 v. 3.2 v. 3.1. So, at the very least, it helps you signal that you're a medianish kinda guy.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:48 am
by Anonymous User
Willkie makes first years sit in a bullpen which is a huge negative IMO.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:22 am
by existentialcrisis
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:48 am
Willkie makes first years sit in a bullpen which is a huge negative IMO.
That's actually a deal breaker IMO.
I change my vote to Ropes here.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:37 am
by Anonymous User
Ropes' New York office is larger than the Boston office and has been for a few years now, so wouldn't call it a satellite. Depends on your specific transactional interest. They're very strong in private equity, as others mentioned.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:29 pm
by Anonymous User
Chambere band rankings: Willkie >>> Sidley.
/thread
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:44 am
by Wubbles
I would go with Ropes if you want to do M&A and don't care about culture, but real answer would be to hear from some 2-3rd year corporate associates from each one to see to what degree they are hating it. None of these are satellite offices though, so don't factor that in.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:27 am
by Anonymous User
Ropes also has some juniors in bullpens, so take Sidley if they’re the only firm not doing that.
Locally in NYC, they’re all good options and respected names. Nationally I’d say Sidley is a bit more prestigious than Ropes, which in turn is a much bigger name than Willkie.
Re: Willkie vs sidley vs ropes &gray
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:02 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:27 am
Ropes also has some juniors in bullpens, so take Sidley if they’re the only firm not doing that.
Locally in NYC, they’re all good options and respected names. Nationally I’d say Sidley is a bit more prestigious than Ropes, which in turn is a much bigger name than Willkie.
Sidley NY has bullpens too.