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Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:20 am
by Anonymous User
…instead of providing direct feedback on the underlying issues and what needs to be improved?
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:40 am
by Anonymous User
1. A lot of partners got where they are by being good at turning merger agreements. Business management and people management aren’t necessarily relevant to promotion.
2. A lot of them communicate by email, which often seems more passive aggressive than they intend.
3. They care about keeping clients happy. A lot of them don’t give shit about associates, so they do bare minimum to communicate with associates just to make sure the deal gets closed.
4. Sometimes associates are clear “he’s gonna make it 2 more years and then get a developmental message and told to leave.” It’s not worth the time to give helpful feedback. IME, strong associates get good feedback, weak associates are in a “just run out the clock” situation.
5. They’re busy and prioritize other things.
6. They’re just assholes.
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:51 am
by Anonymous User
Lawyers are bad managers and law firms are terribly run. It's a miracle that they are profitable despite it all.
OP can you give some examples? It's very possible that you are overreacting to something that wasn't intended to be passive aggressive. It's also of course very possible that your partner is just a jerk.
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:06 pm
by Anonymous User
I call upon redline senior to answer on behalf of all passive aggressive lawyers.
Seriously, though, there are a lot of people with this weird sink or swim mentality who think "I learned this stuff on my own, so why can't the other associates? Teaching them is not my job." It's a weird, counterproductive mentality that persists across a lot of law firms. Not to mention successful people often underplay the contributions of others to their success. I happen to think I get the best work out of people I spend time mentoring and teaching and that it's therefore a time saver for me to do that (not to mention part of my job description as a senior associate), but that's not the dominant view.
Also, sometimes people are just too busy to provide meaningful feedback. TBH, one of the best ways to show initiative is to ask for constructive criticism. That gives the partner an opportunity to be clear about expectations that you may not have picked up on (through no fault of your own).
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:26 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:06 pm
I call upon redline senior to answer on behalf of all passive aggressive lawyers.
Seriously, though, there are a lot of people with this weird sink or swim mentality who think "I learned this stuff on my own, so why can't the other associates? Teaching them is not my job." It's a weird, counterproductive mentality that persists across a lot of law firms. Not to mention successful people often underplay the contributions of others to their success. I happen to think I get the best work out of people I spend time mentoring and teaching and that it's therefore a time saver for me to do that (not to mention part of my job description as a senior associate), but that's not the dominant view.
Also, sometimes people are just too busy to provide meaningful feedback. TBH, one of the best ways to show initiative is to
ask for constructive criticism. That gives the partner an opportunity to be clear about expectations that you may not have picked up on (through no fault of your own).
Telling a junior to review a redline to see what was needed to be changed from their draft isn't really passive aggressive.
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:38 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 10:26 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 12:06 pm
I call upon redline senior to answer on behalf of all passive aggressive lawyers.
Seriously, though, there are a lot of people with this weird sink or swim mentality who think "I learned this stuff on my own, so why can't the other associates? Teaching them is not my job." It's a weird, counterproductive mentality that persists across a lot of law firms. Not to mention successful people often underplay the contributions of others to their success. I happen to think I get the best work out of people I spend time mentoring and teaching and that it's therefore a time saver for me to do that (not to mention part of my job description as a senior associate), but that's not the dominant view.
Also, sometimes people are just too busy to provide meaningful feedback. TBH, one of the best ways to show initiative is to
ask for constructive criticism. That gives the partner an opportunity to be clear about expectations that you may not have picked up on (through no fault of your own).
Telling a junior to review a redline to see what was needed to be changed from their draft isn't really passive aggressive.
We don't need to have this conversation again. It's been covered ad nauseam here:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=312165&p=10512021& ... #p10512021
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:24 am
by Anonymous User
deleted.
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:48 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:24 am
OP here. FWIW I would not be offended if someone sent me a redline and asked me to review it.
I mean things like listing everyone in seniority on multiple emails but with my name put at the end (I wasn’t previously in the To: column, no obvious explanation otherwise), insinuating on a group call that I took a BD trip to have a paid holiday, never having time to speak to me, apologizing on blast email for others having to cover my vacation, and so on. Individually, not a big issue, but when combined with similar occurrences you get an unmistakable sense.
If I ask this person for direct feedback, it’ll be “you’re doing a great job, keep it up.” And I’d be overly sensitive if I brought up any of the above. Anyway, this is hardly my first experience with partners pulling this crap, I’m relatively senior…
At a lot of firms, it's normal/expected to list people by seniority, so if you are the most junior, it's not a PA attack on you personally to put you at the end. (Whether it's a silly practice is another question). If you are being added to an existing email chain, it's probably just that it's easiest to put you at the end.
I don't know what a BD trip stands for? Business development? Sounds like a harmless joke. When people travel for work it's normal to joke about the desirability of visiting the city.
In terms of covering your vacation, why is the partner having to email people? I've been at two firms and it's expected that the associate lines up coverage for his matters? And when I ask people to cover something substantial/complicated/cumbersome/difficult, I usually am apologetic.
As far as not having time to speak with you, it could be that he is busy. If he spends time with other associates and not you, it could be that your personalities don't vibe, which sucks.
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:53 am
by Anonymous User
Yeah I'm also not following the details.
Caring about where you are in the cc line is cringe. The joke about a BD trip is an obvious joke, tho it might be a bit passive aggressive "joke". But still, if the partner felt comfortable joking about it then you should shoe you're a good sport and play along.
Need more details about the coverage for vacation. If the partner arranged for coverage for you then a) they did you a huge favor, one that most would not do and b) of course they are apologetic, it's just politeness when asking someone to cover.
Re: Why are so many partners passive aggressive…
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 12:53 pm
by Anonymous User
apologizing on blast email for others having to cover my vacation, and so on
“hey everyone, we are working on it, Anon is out on vacation right now and we are roping in Anon2 to cover so just a day or two behind on this item, we will send along shortly”