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I've heard a few big NY firms aren't giving offers to all of their summers this year. Is this true?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:52 pm

I've heard a few big NY firms aren't giving offers to all of their summers this year. Is this true?

When you say "all of their summers" do you mean like 1-2, or large portions of their class? Because the former happens, usually due to the summers being egregiously bad. The latter would be a bad sign.

Isn't the summer still ongoing

How does anyone know this when summer programs are still going on? Also, I doubt any firms want to be known as the next Latham. Wouldn't it be easier to reduce class size for Summer 2023 instead?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:53 pm

How does anyone know this when summer programs are still going on? Also, I doubt any firms want to be known as the next Latham. Wouldn't it be easier to reduce class size for Summer 2023 instead?

Not really, because ‘23 folks will be starting fall ‘24. I think most folks assume we’ll be out of this by then

Anybody hearing of a weird number of cold offers rolling in? Haven’t heard that myself

Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:46 pm

Anybody hearing of a weird number of cold offers rolling in? Haven’t heard that myself

Considering the fact that the earliest summer programs are ending this week (and most are ending next week), discussion w/r/t offers is too early. No one knows anything yet.

There's going to be the occasional no-offer even in great economic times. Some folks treat the summer as an all-expenses paid party and only pretend to work. Even those folks sometimes get offers, but you combine that with offending the wrong person, non-economic no-offers certainly happen.

There's an enormous difference between that and what happened the summer of 2009, when firms that normally give offers to every summer were no offering 25-50% of their classes. In other cities/offices, there were cases of 100% no-offers. I sincerely doubt that's happening this year. There may be slightly less tolerance for the folks who do minimal/sloppy work, however.

Overall, there may be a lot of talk about a "slowing" economy, but the market for associates is still relatively tight.

I haven't heard about any no or cold offering at the V10 I'm summering at. And that includes the people who, as the poster above described, treated the whole summer as an extended all expenses paid vacation.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:54 am

Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:46 pm

Anybody hearing of a weird number of cold offers rolling in? Haven’t heard that myself

Considering the fact that the earliest summer programs are ending this week (and most are ending next week), discussion w/r/t offers is too early. No one knows anything yet.

Clearly after providing so much mentorship here I had no time left to ask our summers when it ends

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:54 am

Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:46 pm

Anybody hearing of a weird number of cold offers rolling in? Haven’t heard that myself

Considering the fact that the earliest summer programs are ending this week (and most are ending next week), discussion w/r/t offers is too early. No one knows anything yet.

Not necessarily, here at Davis Polk we've been getting offers during our final reviews which are like a week (and sometimes two for some reason) before the conclusion of our program.

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:54 am

Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:46 pm

Anybody hearing of a weird number of cold offers rolling in? Haven’t heard that myself

Considering the fact that the earliest summer programs are ending this week (and most are ending next week), discussion w/r/t offers is too early. No one knows anything yet.

Not necessarily, here at Davis Polk we've been getting offers during our final reviews which are like a week (and sometimes two for some reason) before the conclusion of our program.

Christ, imagine getting no-offered and still having a week left

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

How do you know this?

Also anecdotal but I had a summer associate lunch at the same restaurant of some Kirkland SAs and man ya'll are wild.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

Source?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

How do you know this?

Also anecdotal but I had a summer associate lunch at the same restaurant of some Kirkland SAs and man ya'll are wild.

Kirkland NY summers are put on one floor in cubicles (wolf of wall street style) with a ping pong table and told to entertain themselves. It turns into a party pretty quickly because they typically only get made up busy work because there’s way too many to actually integrate on deals.

Chicago and the other offices are completely different. Summers get their own offices on the right floor and get staffed on stuff. They also get busy work but are a bit more integrated into the actual work day.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

SAs are idiots every summer. If KE cold offered "at least 20 people" just in its NY office then they overhired and are trying to correct

I mean, not surprising from the firm with 500+ SAs. I'm sure they're looking at the economic situation and trying to figure out the least public way to tighten their belt.

Look I'm all for ragging on Kirkland as much as the next person, but I think we need some clarity on how the poster knows that there are 20+ cold offers, because that would be a historic amount.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:18 pm

Look I'm all for ragging on Kirkland as much as the next person, but I think we need some clarity on how the poster knows that there are 20+ cold offers, because that would be a historic amount.

If not true, poster should be de-anoned, since anon is meant to protect posters sharing actual true information.

If true, then nobody with another offer should take K&E NY anymore. Just go to any other reputable firm that 100% offers

Anyone heard if this happening in DC as well?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

Maybe I’m out of touch, but speaking as an associate that is almost always on the side of other associates, the alleged behavior is pretty egregious if true and I don’t think cold offers would be unreasonable.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

Maybe I’m out of touch, but speaking as an associate that is almost always on the side of other associates, the alleged behavior is pretty egregious if true and I don’t think cold offers would be unreasonable.

If “perceived disrespect” to an associate or non-rainmaker partner could get kids cold offered at a typical firm, we’d hardly have any summers getting offers

I somewhat get cold offering 1 or 2 people because I guess the logic is look we basically have a 100% accept rate and we don't want people freaking out about no offered so let's just cold offer to bring it to 100%. Cold offering 20 people is egregious and honestly Kirkland should have just no offered them. I have a hard time believing Kirkland would be dumb enough to cold offer 20 people—happy to be disproven, but I need something beyond an anon post with nothing else backing it up.

Res Ipsa Loquitter wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:45 pm

Multiple cold offers, at least over 20 at Kirkland NY. Due to multiple instances of perceived disrespect to partners and associates(at least one instance of a summer using profane language to describe a partner to another associate) and lack of responsivity (outright ignoring emails, not turning in work assignments).

Maybe I’m out of touch, but speaking as an associate that is almost always on the side of other associates, the alleged behavior is pretty egregious if true and I don’t think cold offers would be unreasonable.

If “perceived disrespect” to an associate or non-rainmaker partner could get kids cold offered at a typical firm, we’d hardly have any summers getting offers

Yeah, I'm probably out of touch, but I think there's a distinction between perceived disrespect arising from something relatively harmless like a one-time drunk faux pas comment at a dinner or happy hour event and something more intentional like ignoring emails and outright not turning in assignments (assuming no attempts at a heads up or extending deadlines). Holding the former against someone is pretty cruel if obviously just a mistake in the moment. The latter would make me pretty frustrated.