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I've heard of Latham, Shearman, and STB doing this to the last associate class.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:58 amWhat firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...
Paul, Weiss does this. Most recently to 7 associates in the 2021 class. They were randomly chosen lit associates and were told this two days before their start date.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:53 pmDoes anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?
Are you sure they did it "randomly" or did they just say that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:52 pmPaul, Weiss does this. Most recently to 7 associates in the 2021 class. They were randomly chosen lit associates and were told this two days before their start date.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:53 pmDoes anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?
Ropes also does this.
Yeah I was gonna say could you imagine being a potential future SCOTUS clerk hired for the DC appellate group and being told “sorry, you were randomly selected to do M&A”Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:13 pmAre you sure they did it "randomly" or did they just say that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:52 pmPaul, Weiss does this. Most recently to 7 associates in the 2021 class. They were randomly chosen lit associates and were told this two days before their start date.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:53 pmDoes anyone know if Debevoise, Goodwin, DPW, Paul Weiss, or S&C do this?
Ropes also does this.
I'm at Wilmer, and I think this type of thing only happened here back in '08/'09. I don't know anybody who didn't get their first choice practice group after that. In fact, I know a couple associates who were focused almost exclusively on corporate during their summer who ended up switching to lit with no issues, and another who switched from corporate to lit as a 2nd or 3rd year.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 8:43 pmBetter question, which firm doesn't do this? Unless you were hire directly to a practice group (and some firms OCI separately lit and transactional), you were hired by a firm for their needs, and if that's corporate, that's where you'll end up.
I’m at a non-T14, and I’d heard this, too. I really cared about getting lit, so I went with a v100 firm that gave SA offers by practice group.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:47 amAll firms that have both Lit and Corp groups will do this if needed. You can't just have 0 first years in Corp. if 100% of summers opt for lit.
The larger the corporate group compared to the lit group the more often this happens. (Office also likely plays a role - I imagine this is less common if you are at a DC office even for firms that commonly due it in NYC.)
It's generally going to be underreported, so I wouldn't rely too much on any set of hard numbers.
Anecdotally - at my firm (and this is kind of a shitty thing) the folks who went to non T-14 schools are the first to get forced into corp. if they want lit.
Yes, there are plenty of associates who want m&a or capital markets but are then forced into finance or specialty practices.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:36 pmMy v20 forces people who want M&A into niche debt practices and it totally sucks. If they can’t get me more equity-side work I’ll probably lateral
there should be a list of schools that give SA offers by practice group, really smart to go for those firms if you want to ensure litAnonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:55 amI’m at a non-T14, and I’d heard this, too. I really cared about getting lit, so I went with a v100 firm that gave SA offers by practice group.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:47 amAll firms that have both Lit and Corp groups will do this if needed. You can't just have 0 first years in Corp. if 100% of summers opt for lit.
The larger the corporate group compared to the lit group the more often this happens. (Office also likely plays a role - I imagine this is less common if you are at a DC office even for firms that commonly due it in NYC.)
It's generally going to be underreported, so I wouldn't rely too much on any set of hard numbers.
Anecdotally - at my firm (and this is kind of a shitty thing) the folks who went to non T-14 schools are the first to get forced into corp. if they want lit.
Latham does not do this. Since we have an unassigned program where you don’t opt into a group for the first 18 months and there was an extremely disproportionate amount of corporate work vs litigation, some of the unassigned associates were asked to pitch in and help out on corporate matters during that period. However, this was done with the full understanding that it wouldn’t affect their opt-in choice and I haven’t heard of anyone not receiving the group they ranked as their first choice once the unassigned period was completed. I also know several associates who just said they were “busy” every time they were asked if they could help take one corporate matter and there were zero repercussions.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:08 pmI've heard of Latham, Shearman, and STB doing this to the last associate class.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:58 amWhat firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...
How does the unassigned thing work if you’re post-clerkship (particularly interested in LW DC)? Will you still get asked to work on transactional stuff?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:41 pmLatham does not do this. Since we have an unassigned program where you don’t opt into a group for the first 18 months and there was an extremely disproportionate amount of corporate work vs litigation, some of the unassigned associates were asked to pitch in and help out on corporate matters during that period. However, this was done with the full understanding that it wouldn’t affect their opt-in choice and I haven’t heard of anyone not receiving the group they ranked as their first choice once the unassigned period was completed. I also know several associates who just said they were “busy” every time they were asked if they could help take one corporate matter and there were zero repercussions.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:08 pmI've heard of Latham, Shearman, and STB doing this to the last associate class.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:58 amWhat firms are offenders of this? I've heard some names anecdotally ...
Some have construed this as forcing litigation types into corporate but it is simply not the case.
Does receiving separate GPA information equate to being hired into particular practice groups? Isn't it possible that these firms still hire SAs generally, offer the practice group at the end of the summer, and your school just receives this parsed data then?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:32 pmPretty sure if you're post clerkship you're going to be in litigation (or white collar etc). Not that many clerks out there and you have relevant experience others lack. If you're concerned, reach out to the firm and find out, and look for another firm if you don't get the reassurances.
As for list of firms that hire summers by group (broadly speaking), this information should be available via your OCI. I know we got separate GPA information about a few firms by lit/Corp. I think Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown and maybe a couple of others.
Also re being shifted within transactional, I have seen this happen at least from M&A -> finance.
This was OCI callback information.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:36 pmDoes receiving separate GPA information equate to being hired into particular practice groups? Isn't it possible that these firms still hire SAs generally, offer the practice group at the end of the summer, and your school just receives this parsed data then?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:32 pmPretty sure if you're post clerkship you're going to be in litigation (or white collar etc). Not that many clerks out there and you have relevant experience others lack. If you're concerned, reach out to the firm and find out, and look for another firm if you don't get the reassurances.
As for list of firms that hire summers by group (broadly speaking), this information should be available via your OCI. I know we got separate GPA information about a few firms by lit/Corp. I think Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown and maybe a couple of others.
Also re being shifted within transactional, I have seen this happen at least from M&A -> finance.