Penn 2022 OCI Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thought I’d start this forum to chronicle our OCI and pre OCI movement for future classes to reference.

[Anonymous User]

Penn 3L here. I wish you luck with the shitshow that OCS has given you this year.

[Anonymous User]

OP here — How has it been a shitshow?

[Anonymous User]

OP here — How has it been a shitshow?

Probably because of overenrollment

[Anonymous User]

OP here — How has it been a shitshow?

The aforementioned overenrollment; lack of first failed bit data from past years; and the generally awful approach that OCS takes to the entire process (opacity with grades, telling people not to do pre-OCI, being afraid to give real feedback so as to not hurt feelings, so on and so forth) which only exacerbates the usual problems.

[Anonymous User]

OP here — How has it been a shitshow?

The aforementioned overenrollment; lack of first failed bit data from past years; and the generally awful approach that OCS takes to the entire process (opacity with grades, telling people not to do pre-OCI, being afraid to give real feedback so as to not hurt feelings, so on and so forth) which only exacerbates the usual problems.

OCS started cautioning people about pre-OCI this year

[Anonymous User]

How have they cautioned people about pre OCI? I’ve done it, they know I did it, and they seemed to have been onboard.

[Anonymous User]

What are the downsides to pre OCI?

[Anonymous User]

!

[Anonymous User]

How have they cautioned people about pre OCI? I’ve done it, they know I did it, and they seemed to have been onboard.

Mainly OCS has been telling students that some firms have strict deadlines for pre OCI offers and that pre-OCI’s transparency (meaning, employers can see your grades) can get you phased out of an interview whereas you’d get a screener through OCI

[Anonymous User]

But is the latter part (re getting screened out and having your OCI screener canceled) a real thing!?

[Anonymous User]

What are the downsides to pre OCI?

There really aren't any, except for tight offer deadlines imposed by some firms (looking at you, Latham) that force you to make a decision before OCI.

OCS argues that OCI interviews are blind, whereas pre-OCI interviews aren't, and that one might get rejected based on grades alone. This is true, but I think it's a good thing. OCS' theory is that you might walk into the screener, amaze the interviewer, and get a callback despite your 3.0.

Possible, but unlikely. I'd much rather have my rejection before the bid list is due so I can avoid burning a bid on a firm I wasn't going to get anyway (especially since the school does a hilariously bad job at giving students GPA data for firms, which is a whole other rant I'll save for another day).

The *real* reason OCS discourages people from pre-OCI is self-interest. The more students get a job outside the process, the less valuable the process is. This reduces the school's value-add, but it also makes it more difficult for the school to place people—particularly those with mediocre-to-bad grades. This isn't unique to Penn: career services offices across the T14 take a similar stance. Some are actually worse than Penn in the sense that they actively hinder students from participating in pre-OCI.

The bottom line is this: if you have good grades, you're only hurting yourself by not engaging in pre-OCI. I recently heard down the gravepine that a certain firm's office—one that is reasonably desirable for Penn students—is already full. Take that as you will.

But is the latter part (re getting screened out and having your OCI screener canceled) a real thing!?

If you get straight up rejected during pre-OCI, you don't get another bite at the apple through OCI.

[Anonymous User]

By chance, does anyone know how students who are not so "stellar" in terms of their 1L grades at Penn (i.e. right at median, barely below median, and daresay bottom 1/3) fare at OCI, and what firms are actually receptive to these grades as long as the OCI interviews go well (or pre-OCI for some lucky people)?

I've heard a few names thrown around (e.g. Fried Frank, Cadwalader, Shearman, Milbank, Willkie, Winston, Ropes etc.) but do not exactly know which firms normally take up to which grades and so on. Neither OCS nor the excel pie charts seem that candid/frank or informative generally.

Also, how would magic circle firms such as Linklaters, Freshfields, fare usually?

[Anonymous User]

What firm has already filled most of its class??

Re: that firm list— Ropes can be pretty grade picky. FF and Cadwalader as well as Jones Day aren’t as much. But my impression was that places like FF and CWT are for folks at the way bottom of the class, not those just a hair below median.

[Anonymous User]

By chance, does anyone know how students who are not so "stellar" in terms of their 1L grades at Penn (i.e. right at median, barely below median, and daresay bottom 1/3) fare at OCI, and what firms are actually receptive to these grades as long as the OCI interviews go well (or pre-OCI for some lucky people)?

I've heard a few names thrown around (e.g. Fried Frank, Cadwalader, Shearman, Milbank, Willkie, Winston, Ropes etc.) but do not exactly know which firms normally take up to which grades and so on. Neither OCS nor the excel pie charts seem that candid/frank or informative generally.

Also, how would magic circle firms such as Linklaters, Freshfields, fare usually?

It's very difficult to say, although I agree that most of the names you mention are generally considered to be among the less grade-sensitive.

There's plenty of info elsewhere on TLS regarding firm selectivity and grades for peer schools that do a better job with the data - it's not an apples to apples comparison, but it can be helpful.

Insofar as the Magic Circle is concerned: I've heard Freshfields is somewhat grade-sensitive, but I don't know.

[Anonymous User]

By chance, does anyone know how students who are not so "stellar" in terms of their 1L grades at Penn (i.e. right at median, barely below median, and daresay bottom 1/3) fare at OCI, and what firms are actually receptive to these grades as long as the OCI interviews go well (or pre-OCI for some lucky people)?

I've heard a few names thrown around (e.g. Fried Frank, Cadwalader, Shearman, Milbank, Willkie, Winston, Ropes etc.) but do not exactly know which firms normally take up to which grades and so on. Neither OCS nor the excel pie charts seem that candid/frank or informative generally.

Also, how would magic circle firms such as Linklaters, Freshfields, fare usually?

It's very difficult to say, although I agree that most of the names you mention are generally considered to be among the less grade-sensitive.

There's plenty of info elsewhere on TLS regarding firm selectivity and grades for peer schools that do a better job with the data - it's not an apples to apples comparison, but it can be helpful.

Insofar as the Magic Circle is concerned: I've heard Freshfields is somewhat grade-sensitive, but I don't know.

Freshfields is not very grade sensitive at all with Penn people

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have an idea of when journal results come out? (Also wondering what the normal cutoff is for grading on LR... around 3.7 or significantly higher?)

[jmi114]

Anyone know when journal membership comes out? (Also wondering what the normal cutoff for grading on LR within top half of scores is... around 3.7 or significantly higher?)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when journal membership comes out? (Also wondering what the normal cutoff for grading on LR within top half of scores is... around 3.7 or significantly higher?)

The exact date would've been on the writing competition website. Last year, it was 7/23.

Insofar as GPA is concerned: not sure I follow the question. You're asking what GPA is necessary to grade on? No one knows for sure, but something decently north of a 3.8.

[Anonymous User]

The question was referring to the requirement that those who grade on are also in the top half of the writing competition scores, so it's not just the top 22 GPAs. Presumably that (as well as the facts that those with the top writing competition scores are already taken out of the pool before GPAs are considered and that not everyone does writing competition) means that the cutoff is lower than the top 22 (~8% ) by GPA.

[Anonymous User]

The question was referring to the requirement that those who grade on are also in the top half of the writing competition scores, so it's not just the top 22 GPAs. Presumably that (as well as the facts that those with the top writing competition scores are already taken out of the pool before GPAs are considered and that not everyone does writing competition) means that the cutoff is lower than the top 22 (~8% ) by GPA.

Ah. Yes, that's true. But it's impossible to quantify. There are people who graduate Coif each year who aren't on Law Review - some may not have been in the GPA range at the end of 1L, but some don't compete and others just phone in the writing competition.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when Law Review decisions will come out considering the OCI resume update deadline is this weekend?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when Law Review decisions will come out considering the OCI resume update deadline is this weekend?

As per the writing comp website, "on or around July 22."

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know where a 3.8 puts someone in the class? Top 5%? 10%?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe a bit off-topic, but Texas day tomorrow!

Does anyone know what Texas firms are within reach and perhaps not within reach, around median? Houston offices in particular.