T14 Rising 2L Litigation Firms for Pre/OCI Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am at a lower T14 school, at around top 10%. Extremely grateful to be in this position.

I have CBs at PW/STB/DPW/S&C, all NYC, and offers from a few.

Again, extremely grateful to be in this position and would be happy to take any of the offers I have, but I am confused about what firms are out there that could be better for my career goals, which are general corporate litigation & WC/investigations work in NY, choose a specialization, shoot my shot at partner, then more realistically counsel/service partner/lateral, or if the opportunity arises, USAO/fedgov.

The firms which are on my radar are NY: Susman, Gibson, Wilmer and Quinn; DC: W&C, Covington, Wilmer, Jenner. I realize Susman and the DC firms are likely a reach.

I plan on interviewing with the firms on this list that offer callbacks and deciding based on fit.

Not interested in California. No interest in Kellogg because no interest in antitrust, and I probably wouldn't be competitive anyways. No interest in Cravath due to rotation system. Kirkland/Latham/Skadden no interest because sweatshop for K&E, and the above firms have stronger litigation practices (or at least opportunities for associates, in NY/DC at least).

Please let me know if my strategy can be improved, or if there are other firms I should apply to or keep in mind. Thanks!

p.s. - there is way more corporate-focused discussions on TLS, which is why I'm posting this after spending hours searching and reading forums. Thanks again!

[Anonymous User]

You're probably not competitive for Susman SA and they don't hire from their SA pool (although it certainly helps get a job later). For NY, I'd add DPW and S&C for white collar/investigations (especially DPW if you want to work as an AUSA). Paul Weiss is also good. No idea why you're dismissing Latham, Skadden, and K&E. All these firms that have been mentioned in your original post are sweatshops and those three do have strong litigation practices. For DC you certainly have a shot but you are going to need to apply fairly broadly. Many people at the top 10% of lower T14 make it into DC but many strike out. Also I saw Jenner NY is pretty good, but also very competitive.

[Anonymous User]

You're probably not competitive for Susman SA and they don't hire from their SA pool (although it certainly helps get a job later). For NY, I'd add DPW and S&C for white collar/investigations (especially DPW if you want to work as an AUSA). Paul Weiss is also good. No idea why you're dismissing Latham, Skadden, and K&E. All these firms that have been mentioned in your original post are sweatshops and those three do have strong litigation practices. For DC you certainly have a shot but you are going to need to apply fairly broadly. Many people at the top 10% of lower T14 make it into DC but many strike out. Also I saw Jenner NY is pretty good, but also very competitive.

OP: Thanks! For sure - DPW and S&C are strong considerations.

K&E NY is known for having an especially sweatshoppy culture, and they're less selective. Latham has outstanding corporate & tech litigation clients, but the white-shoe firms have better ties to USAO. Also, Latham NY's approach to associate offices is... hmm..., and their NY office is a tad less selective than the others. Skadden - the other firms are just as good if not better, and Hudson Yards is less desirable than midtown for me personally.

I realize the top DC firms and lit boutiques will be difficult, but hey, nothing ventured nothing gained!

Re: Susman specifically, iirc their summer program is actually not that selective because they don't tender offers. But yes - for full-time (post-clerkship) employment, long shot.

[Anonymous User]

Why is Latham bad for AUSA jobs?

[Anonymous User]

Why is Latham bad for AUSA jobs?

AUSA jobs are often about where former AUSAs are now. Deb/DPW/PW/(apparently) Wilmer are all great NY places because they have a large number of former AUSAs while LW doesn't have as many. Also LW has open plan offices for first years, which is gross (having an office is so much better, even if it's a fishbowl).

[Anonymous User]

You're probably not competitive for Susman SA and they don't hire from their SA pool (although it certainly helps get a job later). For NY, I'd add DPW and S&C for white collar/investigations (especially DPW if you want to work as an AUSA). Paul Weiss is also good. No idea why you're dismissing Latham, Skadden, and K&E. All these firms that have been mentioned in your original post are sweatshops and those three do have strong litigation practices. For DC you certainly have a shot but you are going to need to apply fairly broadly. Many people at the top 10% of lower T14 make it into DC but many strike out. Also I saw Jenner NY is pretty good, but also very competitive.

OP: Thanks! For sure - DPW and S&C are strong considerations.

K&E NY is known for having an especially sweatshoppy culture, and they're less selective. Latham has outstanding corporate & tech litigation clients, but the white-shoe firms have better ties to USAO. Also, Latham NY's approach to associate offices is... hmm..., and their NY office is a tad less selective than the others. Skadden - the other firms are just as good if not better, and Hudson Yards is less desirable than midtown for me personally.

I realize the top DC firms and lit boutiques will be difficult, but hey, nothing ventured nothing gained!

Re: Susman specifically, iirc their summer program is actually not that selective because they don't tender offers. But yes - for full-time (post-clerkship) employment, long shot.

Susman's summer program at my T6 is insanely selective. Really only takes the the top 5 to 10 students.

Don't not bid for Latham, Skadden, and K&E. You're competitive for S&C, DPW, etc... but it's not theoretically impossible to strike out for those firms (ok maybe S&C with ur grades is quasi-guaranteed—are they still doing that auto-admit thing based on gpa?) and you aren't going to want to end up with zero offers.

[Anonymous User]

Excluding Latham, which has elite general commercial and white collar practices in both NY and DC, and a rep as a relatively humane place to work, is bizarre. Likewise, K&E is a Band 1 commercial firm. Echoing everyone else, what’s technically “white shoe” doesn’t matter. If you really want the USAO you’ll need to clerk anyway, after which you can always switch.

I also frankly don’t get bidding DC period if you want NY; DC is a far more competitive market. If you’re serious about DC, you should be applying literally everywhere, and even then there’s a substantial chance you’ll strike out.

I would also shoot your shot at other boutiques; I know Kaplan Hecker takes 2Ls and some of the various white-collar specialist shops in NY might be interested, but they won’t be at OCI. For other BL firms you should be applying to Debevoise.

[Anonymous User]

You really need to clerk to land at a USAO?

[Anonymous User]

Apply to Kirkland, LW, and Skarp pre-OCI. It won’t cost a thing and you can test the waters before OCI.

[Anonymous User]

Excluding Latham, which has elite general commercial and white collar practices in both NY and DC, and a rep as a relatively humane place to work, is bizarre. Likewise, K&E is a Band 1 commercial firm. Echoing everyone else, what’s technically “white shoe” doesn’t matter. If you really want the USAO you’ll need to clerk anyway, after which you can always switch.

I also frankly don’t get bidding DC period if you want NY; DC is a far more competitive market. If you’re serious about DC, you should be applying literally everywhere, and even then there’s a substantial chance you’ll strike out.

I would also shoot your shot at other boutiques; I know Kaplan Hecker takes 2Ls and some of the various white-collar specialist shops in NY might be interested, but they won’t be at OCI. For other BL firms you should be applying to Debevoise.

Not OP, but similar situation. Excluding Latham makes sense if OP dislikes the open floor plan and values the other firms' stronger ties to USAO. These firms are interchangeable with regards to prestige and level of work, with perhaps the slightest edge to the traditional 'white shoe' firms. Bizarre not applying to Deb, but perhaps they've applied and just not heard back yet.

Also, Chambers Bands = partners, which does not directly correlate with selectivity or associate experience. Everyone at a T13 knows Skadden and K&E are less selective than the other firms mentioned here, and roughly why.

As to bidding DC, perhaps OP prefers NY, but would consider DC for the right firm. The firms OP lists are incredibly competitive firms at the top of the market.

[Anonymous User]

You really need to clerk to land at a USAO?

Current AUSA here. Everyone I know who ended up at a USAO out of biglaw clerked. If you go the local prosecutor route and do a ton of trials, no, but out of biglaw, yes.

[Anonymous User]

Look top 10% at a lower T14 is an incredible position to be in and you will likely get solid offers, but I think people confuse Magna at lower T14 between coasting to biglaw (which you will "coast" as in get many offers if you apply broadly) and "coasting" to a select firm. Your goals are the most competitive and you need to apply broadly especially if firms may downsize somewhat. There are also a lot more Columbia, NYU, and Penn students in this summer class which may make things more competitive. You really should not be discounting Kirkland, Skadden, Latham, and I guess Debevoise? It would help to know which firms you have offers at. If you already have an offer at the firms listed in your original post (DPW and S&C), then yeah ok I guess you can be picky if they're willing to hold it open for you during OCI.

[Anonymous User]

You really need to clerk to land at a USAO?

Current AUSA here. Everyone I know who ended up at a USAO out of biglaw clerked. If you go the local prosecutor route and do a ton of trials, no, but out of biglaw, yes.

Would you mind telling us which firms your colleagues come from / go to? Is it still S&C/DPW/Deb and Wilmer for SD/EDNY?

[Anonymous User]

You really need to clerk to land at a USAO?

Current AUSA here. Everyone I know who ended up at a USAO out of biglaw clerked. If you go the local prosecutor route and do a ton of trials, no, but out of biglaw, yes.

Would you mind telling us which firms your colleagues come from / go to? Is it still S&C/DPW/Deb and Wilmer for SD/EDNY?

As a clerk on SDNY I saw junior AUSAs from lots of biglaw firms, with no notable skew to DPW or anything, but I obviously didn’t see everyone in the office and the CW when I did OCI was that DPW has strong USAO links. Also I saw a good number from boutique white-collar shops and similar places like Williams & Connolly. At many of those nearly all of the partners are ex-AUSAs, so I assume all have very good connections as long as the partners are well-regarded.

[Anonymous User]

You really need to clerk to land at a USAO?

Yes, as a general rule AUSAs are former clerks. You might get it without a clerkship but any serious USAO gunner will clerk.