WilmerHale NY? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Now that they have Bharara, are they going to be a major player in the NY investigations scene? If so, anyone have a sense of culture/selectivity/workflow? There isn't much about them on TLS besides how sick their office is

[Anonymous User]

It was always a highly sought after office that is a notch more selective than its New York litigation peers like Debevoise, S&C, etc. The addition of Bharara probably won't affect much. When Loretta Lynch went to Paul Weiss, not much changed there. Same thing with Eric Holder going to Covington. Famous government folks become biglaw attorneys all the time.

[Anonymous User]

+1 re: not moving the needle much. Don't get me wrong, I work at WH and think it's awesome. But I think Bharara coming to WH just emphasizes something that lots of practitioners and clients already knew but fewer law noticed. The rankings skew heavily toward (more profitable/prestige-oriented) corporate practices, but when it comes to litigation (and investigations/white collar) WH is top tier hands down.

I don't mean to disparage other firms in any way, but I think the people who self-select into WH focus on more on the work/client aspect and pay less attention to the rankings. From what I've seen, they tend to be more practical/mature/collegial and less hierarchical/prestige oriented. The teams are run that way too. Just read the Vault writeup. Bharara coming to WH isn't going to change the rankings (which lots of law students rely on), and the people who dig deep enough to see it as a plus were probably already thinking of WH anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Wilmer is primarily a litigation firm, which makes the Vault rankings etc less useful for it. And NYC white collar in particular is boutique-heavy so the Vault rankings are particularly useless. Wilmer already had an elite white-collar practice, including in New York where it's Chambers band 2, and that will continue.

I also just realized that Wilmer has a back office in Dayton--interesting.

[Anonymous User]

It was always a highly sought after office that is a notch more selective than its New York litigation peers like Debevoise, S&C, etc. The addition of Bharara probably won't affect much. When Loretta Lynch went to Paul Weiss, not much changed there. Same thing with Eric Holder going to Covington. Famous government folks become biglaw attorneys all the time.

WilmerHale NY is great, but I don't think it's accurate to call it more selective than Debevoise or S&C. Those firms are more corporate focused, but they have bigger brands in NY and they're much higher ranked in Chamber's litigation rankings.

[Anonymous User]

I also just realized that Wilmer has a back office in Dayton--interesting.

It's purely administrative and discovery attorneys. See, e.g., https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/doc-rev ... ure-email/. Keeps costs low.

Also, LOL at posters thinking that S&C/Debevoise have better lit practices than WH. I'll give you that they probably have more in NYC, but it's not like people consider those firms to be a cream of the crop lit firm like clients do WH.

[Anonymous User]

My sense is that Bharara will obviously help bring in clients and with the reputation of the firm (at least among non-lawyers who pat attention to these things), but not materially change the white collar practice of the firm, which is already easily among the strongest in NY.

[Anonymous User]

I also just realized that Wilmer has a back office in Dayton--interesting.

It's purely administrative and discovery attorneys. See, e.g., https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/doc-rev ... ure-email/. Keeps costs low.

Also, LOL at posters thinking that S&C/Debevoise have better lit practices than WH. I'll give you that they probably have more in NYC, but it's not like people consider those firms to be a cream of the crop lit firm like clients do WH.

WH is the absolute cream of the crop in Boston. It's very, very good in DC. WH NY is more litigation-focused than other NY offices, but it's not a peer of S&C there. S&C NY is Band 1: Elite (along with GDC and PW). WH NY is Band 1: Highly Regarded (along with Mayer Brown and White & Case). Not knocking WH, it's an impressive satellite office in a competitive market, it's just a function of time, reputation, and manpower.

[Anonymous User]

I also just realized that Wilmer has a back office in Dayton--interesting.

It's purely administrative and discovery attorneys. See, e.g., https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/doc-rev ... ure-email/. Keeps costs low.

Also, LOL at posters thinking that S&C/Debevoise have better lit practices than WH. I'll give you that they probably have more in NYC, but it's not like people consider those firms to be a cream of the crop lit firm like clients do WH.

WH is the absolute cream of the crop in Boston. It's very, very good in DC. WH NY is more litigation-focused than other NY offices, but it's not a peer of S&C there. S&C NY is Band 1: Elite (along with GDC and PW). WH NY is Band 1: Highly Regarded (along with Mayer Brown and White & Case). Not knocking WH, it's an impressive satellite office in a competitive market, it's just a function of time, reputation, and manpower.

I presume if you're at WH NY you're working on some matters in SDNY/EDNY but also a good amount that comes out of Boston/DC? Does the local ranking then matter as much as the national perception (especially for exits to DOJ/USAOs?)

[Anonymous User]

I also just realized that Wilmer has a back office in Dayton--interesting.

It's purely administrative and discovery attorneys. See, e.g., https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/doc-rev ... ure-email/. Keeps costs low.

Also, LOL at posters thinking that S&C/Debevoise have better lit practices than WH. I'll give you that they probably have more in NYC, but it's not like people consider those firms to be a cream of the crop lit firm like clients do WH.

WH is the absolute cream of the crop in Boston. It's very, very good in DC. WH NY is more litigation-focused than other NY offices, but it's not a peer of S&C there. S&C NY is Band 1: Elite (along with GDC and PW). WH NY is Band 1: Highly Regarded (along with Mayer Brown and White & Case). Not knocking WH, it's an impressive satellite office in a competitive market, it's just a function of time, reputation, and manpower.

I presume if you're at WH NY you're working on some matters in SDNY/EDNY but also a good amount that comes out of Boston/DC? Does the local ranking then matter as much as the national perception (especially for exits to DOJ/USAOs?)

From what I gather, ranking doesn't matter at all for DOJ/USAO exits. What matters is whether the firm has a connection with offices/partners who were there previously who can push you as a candidate. As well as whether or not you have a strong clerkship and (sadly) a strong law school profile.

To the extent that ranking is a proxy for those things, maybe it matters but only as a proxy

[Anonymous User]

how hard is it to lateral to wilmer ny out of a clerkship as a rising second or third year? does a federal district court clerkship give you a strong chance given you went to a YSH?

[Anonymous User]

how hard is it to lateral to wilmer ny out of a clerkship as a rising second or third year? does a federal district court clerkship give you a strong chance given you went to a YSH?

I wouldn't call that a lateral - it's post-clerkship hiring, right?

Anyway, from my experience WH is more selective for hiring into the lit group after OCI. but less selective than OCI for lateral hiring in other groups like corporate or IP. But a clerkship and YSH are huge pluses, particularly if your clerkship is in a desirable/competitive district. I don't know many (any?) lit associates that came in other than as summers who didn't clerk at least once, if that makes sense. That said, I know we turn away a lot of well-qualified clerks (I know of at least a handful personally).

I don't say this to discourage you from applying. You absolutely should. But it's not like some firms where YSH + DCT clerkship will make you a shoe-in for any open spot. NYC is probably a little easier than DC, but not much.

[Anonymous User]

I also just realized that Wilmer has a back office in Dayton--interesting.

It's purely administrative and discovery attorneys. See, e.g., https://abovethelaw.com/2019/01/doc-rev ... ure-email/. Keeps costs low.

Also, LOL at posters thinking that S&C/Debevoise have better lit practices than WH. I'll give you that they probably have more in NYC, but it's not like people consider those firms to be a cream of the crop lit firm like clients do WH.

WH is the absolute cream of the crop in Boston. It's very, very good in DC. WH NY is more litigation-focused than other NY offices, but it's not a peer of S&C there. S&C NY is Band 1: Elite (along with GDC and PW). WH NY is Band 1: Highly Regarded (along with Mayer Brown and White & Case). Not knocking WH, it's an impressive satellite office in a competitive market, it's just a function of time, reputation, and manpower.

Um, you have no idea what you’re talking about if you’re saying Wilmer is just “very, very good” in DC. It is one of the most elite firms in DC litigation. I agree that WH NY is an afterthought to many (I didn’t really think of NY when I worked there).

As to the OP, it won’t make a different, just like Mueller going back to WH didn’t do anything. Same with Stephanie Avakian going there.

WH has a ton of former government heavyweights. It’s like “oh, that’s nice.” Then people move on.

[Anonymous User]

how hard is it to lateral to wilmer ny out of a clerkship as a rising second or third year? does a federal district court clerkship give you a strong chance given you went to a YSH?

I wouldn't call that a lateral - it's post-clerkship hiring, right?

Anyway, from my experience WH is more selective for hiring into the lit group after OCI. but less selective than OCI for lateral hiring in other groups like corporate or IP. But a clerkship and YSH are huge pluses, particularly if your clerkship is in a desirable/competitive district. I don't know many (any?) lit associates that came in other than as summers who didn't clerk at least once, if that makes sense. That said, I know we turn away a lot of well-qualified clerks (I know of at least a handful personally).

I don't say this to discourage you from applying. You absolutely should. But it's not like some firms where YSH + DCT clerkship will make you a shoe-in for any open spot. NYC is probably a little easier than DC, but not much.

Litigation was extremely competitive for clerkship hiring and lateral hiring. All of the new litigation hires that came in (firm regularly updated intranet for new hires) came from top schools, with top grades and top clerkships (e.g., T6, summa cum laude, law review, 9th circuit clerkship). And these weren’t even for appellate positions, which are mainly limited to SCOTUS clerks. You could do some appellate outside of the group, but you’d have to know the right people.

But this was mostly for DC. I think top third at T14 with a good clerkship “could” get WH NY.

[Anonymous User]

how hard is it to lateral to wilmer ny out of a clerkship as a rising second or third year? does a federal district court clerkship give you a strong chance given you went to a YSH?

I wouldn't call that a lateral - it's post-clerkship hiring, right?

Anyway, from my experience WH is more selective for hiring into the lit group after OCI. but less selective than OCI for lateral hiring in other groups like corporate or IP. But a clerkship and YSH are huge pluses, particularly if your clerkship is in a desirable/competitive district. I don't know many (any?) lit associates that came in other than as summers who didn't clerk at least once, if that makes sense. That said, I know we turn away a lot of well-qualified clerks (I know of at least a handful personally).

I don't say this to discourage you from applying. You absolutely should. But it's not like some firms where YSH + DCT clerkship will make you a shoe-in for any open spot. NYC is probably a little easier than DC, but not much.

Litigation was extremely competitive for clerkship hiring and lateral hiring. All of the new litigation hires that came in (firm regularly updated intranet for new hires) came from top schools, with top grades and top clerkships (e.g., T6, summa cum laude, law review, 9th circuit clerkship). And these weren’t even for appellate positions, which are mainly limited to SCOTUS clerks. You could do some appellate outside of the group, but you’d have to know the right people.

But this was mostly for DC. I think top third at T14 with a good clerkship “could” get WH NY.

Agreed that nearly everyone in litigation at WH DC has at least one clerkship (and usually a COA plus district court), but it’s an exaggeration to say that you need a Supreme Court clerkship to work in the appellate group. I’m cross-listed with Appellate & Supreme Court Litigation, do a fair amount of appellate work, and I only have a lowly circuit clerkship; I know several others in the same boat. I won’t dispute that there’s an advantage to coming in with a scotus clerkship (and they are sought after for certain matters), but I wouldn’t describe appellate as “mainly limited” to scotus clerks.

[Anonymous User]

how hard is it to lateral to wilmer ny out of a clerkship as a rising second or third year? does a federal district court clerkship give you a strong chance given you went to a YSH?

I wouldn't call that a lateral - it's post-clerkship hiring, right?

Anyway, from my experience WH is more selective for hiring into the lit group after OCI. but less selective than OCI for lateral hiring in other groups like corporate or IP. But a clerkship and YSH are huge pluses, particularly if your clerkship is in a desirable/competitive district. I don't know many (any?) lit associates that came in other than as summers who didn't clerk at least once, if that makes sense. That said, I know we turn away a lot of well-qualified clerks (I know of at least a handful personally).

I don't say this to discourage you from applying. You absolutely should. But it's not like some firms where YSH + DCT clerkship will make you a shoe-in for any open spot. NYC is probably a little easier than DC, but not much.

Litigation was extremely competitive for clerkship hiring and lateral hiring. All of the new litigation hires that came in (firm regularly updated intranet for new hires) came from top schools, with top grades and top clerkships (e.g., T6, summa cum laude, law review, 9th circuit clerkship). And these weren’t even for appellate positions, which are mainly limited to SCOTUS clerks. You could do some appellate outside of the group, but you’d have to know the right people.

But this was mostly for DC. I think top third at T14 with a good clerkship “could” get WH NY.

Agreed that nearly everyone in litigation at WH DC has at least one clerkship (and usually a COA plus district court), but it’s an exaggeration to say that you need a Supreme Court clerkship to work in the appellate group. I’m cross-listed with Appellate & Supreme Court Litigation, do a fair amount of appellate work, and I only have a lowly circuit clerkship; I know several others in the same boat. I won’t dispute that there’s an advantage to coming in with a scotus clerkship (and they are sought after for certain matters), but I wouldn’t describe appellate as “mainly limited” to scotus clerks.

I think the previous poster was probably referring to pure appellate litigators. I'm on an appeal from a case I assisted with in district court and never clerked at all, but there's no way I could do only appellate. Sounds like you're cross-listed, which proves the point.