Complaining About Work as an SA Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

It's worth clarifying what you meant to the SA coordinator. Try advocating for yourself one last time and if after that nothing improves, then just give up.

[jimmythecatdied6]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

I'm not OP but how is proofreading Law Review articles for partners actual experience? OP has a right to be pissed. Presumably, he/she/they got several offers and selected the firm based on certain representations that were made and that are not being honored.

[BigLawPartner]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

Wait, what? At your firm, "real associates" proofread and cite check law review articles? You need to find a new firm, man.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

I'm not whining cause it's repetitive or boring, I'm whining because this is not the repetitive and boring stuff that gives me any sort of help in narrowing down my practice area at all. It's one thing to have this be one of many projects that I do on the side but to have this take up all my time seems... odd. Hell I'll help cite check a brief or something, anything to get experience.

Without doxing myself too much, my resume would suggest I am good at bluebooking. On law review to which I help supervise bluebooking and was an RA. Can't help but feel like the Partners saw the SAs as a good labor pool of bluebooking experience, tossed these 3 assignments into the pile, and I got penned as the bluebook person.

It's not the end of the world as this is certainly the highest paying RA job I have and at least it is so mind numbing I can listen to podcasts as I work, but if there is some way to salvage this summer without jeopardizing my potential return offer I'd like to take it.

[Anonymous User]

Summer work sucks and you should avoid it if you can, other than attempting to find the practice group you want to join (which is best accomplished by getting on emails/calls and not doing summer-level work).

[Wild Card]

Consider reaching out to the partner and letting him or her know that you weren't complaining.

Do what you're told or enjoy being a real estate associate.

[jotarokujo]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

Wait, what? At your firm, "real associates" proofread and cite check law review articles? You need to find a new firm, man.

is it possible that the person you're responding to is saying OP is getting the real associate experience of disliking/navigating their assignments or am i giving them too much credit

[loislanejd]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

I'm not whining cause it's repetitive or boring, I'm whining because this is not the repetitive and boring stuff that gives me any sort of help in narrowing down my practice area at all. It's one thing to have this be one of many projects that I do on the side but to have this take up all my time seems... odd. Hell I'll help cite check a brief or something, anything to get experience.

Without doxing myself too much, my resume would suggest I am good at bluebooking. On law review to which I help supervise bluebooking and was an RA. Can't help but feel like the Partners saw the SAs as a good labor pool of bluebooking experience, tossed these 3 assignments into the pile, and I got penned as the bluebook person.

It's not the end of the world as this is certainly the highest paying RA job I have and at least it is so mind numbing I can listen to podcasts as I work, but if there is some way to salvage this summer without jeopardizing my potential return offer I'd like to take it.

I’m a recent grad and this happened to me during my summer as well because I was also on law review and had done moot court, which would suggest lit, but I wasn’t at all interested in it. What I did was make an effort to talk with the associates in the groups I was interested in working in, which led to them asking for me whenever they had something in their practice area that they could break off. I had one associate let me sit in on a meeting after we had chatted. I still had to do a fair bit of stuff in other groups, but this helped me begin to narrow down what I was interested in.

[LBJ's Hair]

you're being given an opportunity to work one on one with multiple partners. ask them about their practice and use this to get staffed on something else.

also this is a common summer assignment, and first year lit associates are asked to bluebook things.

also when you start, you're going to be asked to do tons of shit that won't 'teach' you anything. people don't give you work based on what's best for your 'development,' they give you work b/c they need it done.

in some ways, this is exactly what biglaw looks like tbh. gotta advocate for yourself

to close out my note, fwiw, I realize it's not the most interesting thing in the world but bluebooking something you're presumably competent at and making a good impression w/a partner is way more valuable than silently joining a zoom meeting.

[jimmythecatdied6]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

Wait, what? At your firm, "real associates" proofread and cite check law review articles? You need to find a new firm, man.

is it possible that the person you're responding to is saying OP is getting the real associate experience of disliking/navigating their assignments or am i giving them too much credit

lol. no, all associates get all of the great work that were promised during recruiting and never have to deal with mindless BS like the OP. my only practical advice is the following: if the firm blatantly lied to you about your summer experience, just imagine how much worse it will be when you're an actual associate.

[existentialcrisis]

you're being given an opportunity to work one on one with multiple partners. ask them about their practice and use this to get staffed on something else.

also this is a common summer assignment, and first year lit associates are asked to bluebook things.

also when you start, you're going to be asked to do tons of shit that won't 'teach' you anything. people don't give you work based on what's best for your 'development,' they give you work b/c they need it done.

in some ways, this is exactly what biglaw looks like tbh. gotta advocate for yourself

to close out my note, fwiw, I realize it's not the most interesting thing in the world but bluebooking something you're presumably competent at and making a good impression w/a partner is way more valuable than silently joining a zoom meeting.

This.

[Anonymous User]

Original OP. The opportunity to work one on one with multiple Partners is a good way of framing this that I totally overlooked. Great idea to use this as a bridge to talk to Partners in a way that other SAs may not have an opportunity to. Will try that out.

[sparty99]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

Not sure why you are complaining when you are working directly with 3 Partners and can easily ask them if they have substantive legal work that you can do.

[The Lsat Airbender]

OP has a right to be pissed. Presumably, he/she/they got several offers and selected the firm based on certain representations that were made and that are not being honored.

[DukeMountain]

OP has a right to be pissed. Presumably, he/she/they got several offers and selected the firm based on certain representations that were made and that are not being honored.

What you do for two months during the summer at market pay doesn’t really matter. It might be boring for OP but that’s practice.

[glitched]

Keep your head down. Clear up any confusion with the partner about complaining - say it had nothing to do with overwork but that you simply wanted more varied assignments. Your work product/experience doesn't really matter as a summer. The more important thing is relationships. Make as many strong ones as you can with partners and associates. That will make the transition easier when it actually starts to matter as a first year. Relationships > work product (unless its truly awful so try to make it decent, replicating prior precedent as much as possible. I'm not talking about substance - presentation is more important than substance.). That explains why the summer is so focused on events and lunches.

[Anonymous User]

Consider reaching out to the partner and letting him or her know that you weren't complaining.

Do what you're told or enjoy being a real estate associate.

Whats wrong with real estate?

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a V10 firm in NYC (i.e. they have a lot of work and lots of different practices). Summers do work through summer coordinators. I expressed interest in basically every group and was excited to get a variety of work. So far, I have been given 3 long term projects. One of which is doing cite checks for a Partner's law review article, the second one is doing cite checks for a Partner's book, and the third one—for a nice change of pace—is doing cite checks for another Partner's law review article. As seems clear I am fairly salty about this, as I feel like I am basically just working as an RA. Talking to other summers they have gotten to shadow attorneys, be present in meetings, and learn things.

At first, I thought I'd just put my head down and work and eventually they would assign me something else. I brought it up to the SA coordinator and she appears to have misinterpreted me as saying I feel as if I'm overworked because a Partner just emailed me unprompted to say that he just wants to clarify I don't have to work on his article over the weekend.

Do I just keep my head down in pursuit of the return offer to god knows what—litigation I guess is closest to article work? Or, would it be ok if "rock the boat" and express some dissatisfaction with my assignments? Does not help that my office mate—also an SA—is always in cool meetings and even gets to draft memos and stuff. I have produced zero work product beyond editing citations and have done zero client work.

if anything, you're getting a good picture of what life is like as a real associate. why are you whining when you are getting actual, real-life experience compared to your peers?

I'm not OP but how is proofreading Law Review articles for partners actual experience? OP has a right to be pissed. Presumably, he/she/they got several offers and selected the firm based on certain representations that were made and that are not being honored.

Why does OP have a right to be pissed? He’s getting paid $5k every two weeks to do cite checks. OP you want to shadow people, ask them. That’s on you. This is a business and every second that you spend with an associate or a partner is a second they could be billing. Every single thing you work on must be checked and in general has to be entirely redone.

For summers that you think are getting the “actual experience” they are not, because we will get fired if you get the “actual experience”. Nothing you do matters and the gunner summers always quit first. It is fairly typical that the drunkest summer associates who gave the fewest fucks last the longest or make partner. Hint, its not because they didn’t get the experience they were promised. Get a reality check, you dont want to be doing NDAs at 1145 PM on a Monday night when you dont have to and your work results in more work for your team. Enjoy the summer and the cite checks! Make an impression on the partners so they remember that you have a name in a year.

[Anonymous User]

I think it's fair to be annoyed, but yeah, I would keep in mind that it's hard to use summer work as a gauge for actual practice unless you're at a firm where summers actually get worked (which I don't think anyone should want.. enjoy your summer of pay with little to no responsibilities).

Biglaw associates basically have to walk on eggshells and build time into their own schedules that they probably don't have in order to to break off and review hand-crafted and discrete assignments for summers. In certain practice areas (e.g., M&A), it's frustrating sometimes because some of you keep asking so much, but I honestly can't give you guys a taste of what practice is really like because I would deservedly get chewed the fuck out for treating summers badly, and I obviously don't want to do that to you guys in the first place.

[Grazzhoppa]

Hate to break it to you OP but working at a large law firm / being an attorney generally sucks. You will be scribe and paper pusher the rest of your life.

[objctnyrhnr]

The “love” I’m about to articulate below may be “tough,” but this is why we are all here. You don’t know me and I don’t know you so none of it ultimately matters that much, but here goes:

You NEED to chill the eff out. I’m not saying your offer or career will get ruined by your comment (in fact I’m sure you’ll absolutely be fine), or that you haven’t taken the correct steps to fix it (seems like you’re doing what you can do under the circumstances), but misunderstanding or not that is not the kind of thing you want to go around saying…or the impression you want to go around accidentally giving.

You’re a summer. As so many have said, you are getting paid way more than is technically deserved to do pretty much nothing that matters. That’s not to say that no summers ever do things that matter at all. Some do. But the fact that one doesn’t has absolutely no bearing on anything, when it comes to what the experience will actually be like once hired.

At the end of the day: It’s like 8 weeks. Just keep your head down and be cool. What you are or are not doing has absolutely no bearing on what your experience will be like once hired, substantively. (With that said, once you get the offer, nothing stops you from clerking and/or applying to other spots.) frankly, if you want a writing sample and you don’t get one here, just do a clinic or externship or whatever next sem.

I don’t say this to come off as a weird TLS elitist or anything. The advice I give you now is very dear to my own heart because very soon after I started working, albeit post clerkship, I got similar “hey hungry junior guy chill the eff out”-type advice. It was delivered bluntly and I hated hearing it when I did.

But, looking back, it was some of the best advice I’ve ever gotten. (Currently senior v30 lit associate for context.)

Seems like you’re gonna do just fine. Keep your chin up and your head down…And BE COOL.

Feel free to DM me if you want to talk more Re this.

[Anonymous User]

Network and get on assignments you want, for heaven's sake. It sounds like you have the time? So why not reach out to associates and partners for lunch/coffee, ask if they have assignments you can help on or meetings you can sit in on, and rinse and repeat!

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Ya'll are right. I guess I was upset that the work wasn't varied, but even though it is a central assigning system doesn't mean I shouldn't be reaching out. Thank you everyone for the perspective. I've also reflected on it and think this is such a dumb thing to complain about as I am actually getting to directly help Partners with things that I have a unique advantage/skill on (bluebooking), which is something that other summers who write memo number 416 on the statute of fraud do not get to have. Reframing my mindset, I think I am actually incredibly fortunate to be given these assignments. I'll admit my initial question was fairly immature.