Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get? Forum

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:26 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:56 pm
First-year associate at a v100 in Florida (no state or local income taxes). I have no framework of what’s reasonable to spend on a house, so I’d love to hear what various TLSers did.

My situation:
• combined law school debt (me and my partner): $70k
• other debt: one car payment at $600/month
• HHI: $355k
• what we’re saving for: hoping to get a 4-bedroom house at some point (we want kids). In the area we’re looking in, this currently runs around $1.3 million - $2 million.
Bought a 3 bedroom condo in Chicago as a 4th year associate for about $600k. To each his/her own, but I imagine those golden handcuffs will feel really tight with a house over $1 million, particularly as a relatively junior associate.
Agreed. I bought in Chicago as well as a 3rd year associate. My partner and I got a house for just under $700k. HHI at the time was just over $400k. HHI has gone up a good amount in the past several years. We have thought about moving to a different neighborhood or nearby suburb where a house would be in the $1.3-$2m range, but I like the freedom we have now in terms of spending and savings.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:21 pm

Bought a $475k place in Chicago as a 2nd year with a $285k HHI. Felt very comfortable financially at that HHI, and it's only gotten increasingly more comfortable. We both had low car payments (sub $300/mo.) and relatively low student loan payments ($500/mo.). Felt comfortable even while maxing out my 401(k)/HSA.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:42 pm

Bought a home for $1.1M as a fourth year.

Put 20% down with bonuses and secured a 2.6% fixed 30-year rate.

I have maybe 100k in debt, which I'll pay off in 3ish years.

Between mortgage, insurance, and property taxes (Texas), I pay about $5100/month.

Plan is to biglaw for at least 3 years. I can comfortably afford the house and mylife style at 200k, so once my debt is paid and I'm settled (burned out), I'll consider an easier gig.

Still also holding out for the prospect of marrying well. TBD

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by nealric » Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:59 am
First year associate in Houston.

Household income: $315k ($215k + $100k from spouse)
Student loans: $280k
Other debt: none
House price: $610k

4BR 4.5BA, 2800sqft, new construction, custom interiors, gated community w/ amenities. 20 minute commute.

Banks told us we could have been approved for much more, but luckily here you can get a hell of a lot of house at a reasonable price compared to most BigLaw cities. Planning to stay in this house until we move or I make partner (at which point we might stay, but the legit mansions 10 minutes from the office would be on the table at that point since they’re only like ~$1.5m to $2.5m at the low end).
Houston does indeed have much cheaper real estate than most biglaw locations, but I think a "legit mansion" 10 minutes from downtown Houston for $1.5MM is a bit of a stretch. I think only River Oaks would qualify as being 10 minutes from downtown and having "legit mansions." $2.5MM would barely get you a vacant lot suitable to build a mansion in River Oaks. Maybe West U if you are being generous or Memorial if you are being loose with commute time. Still, there's no question you could get a very, very, nice house with a reasonable commute in that price range.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:48 pm

I’m in Houston, 5 minute commute to work. I have a 4BR, 3.5BA, ~$780k. Bought it when I was a 4th year (so whatever comp was in 2020 was my HHI), 10% down. Taxes and insurance come out to around $15k a year. Other debt around $100k, split between improvements I made to the property, car, etc. I also pay 85% of my parent’s mortgage on top of my own if that matters (refinanced my student loans into their mortgage), but that’s technically not debt (just gifts each month). Eventually if I start a family, I would probably move out to the suburbs and get a bigger place in a better school district for around the same price (give or take).

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:47 am

I'm in Texas. Spouse had a 360k house when we met and then we bought a second, new primary house for 380k in my first year. Used an attorney loan so put 0 down. Kept the first house and have been renting it out. Combined they are now probably worth about 900k. Both are like 12 minutes from downtown.

I am a third year now and we are now in the process of building a ~1.2m house and will probably keep our current house as a rental again.

Our combined net worth when we purchased our current house was probably like 150k. I had over 100k in student loans at that point.

NW is now around 700k and HHI has recently increased to ~$450k (plus my bonus if I make it).

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:47 am
I'm in Texas. Spouse had a 360k house when we met and then we bought a second, new primary house for 380k in my first year. Used an attorney loan so put 0 down. Kept the first house and have been renting it out. Combined they are now probably worth about 900k. Both are like 12 minutes from downtown.

I am a third year now and we are now in the process of building a ~1.2m house and will probably keep our current house as a rental again.

Our combined net worth when we purchased our current house was probably like 150k. I had over 100k in student loans at that point.

NW is now around 700k and HHI has recently increased to ~$450k (plus my bonus if I make it).
What’s the deal with attorney loans? Can you speak to that, process wise etc., when you decided to take that approach? Considering it…

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by LittleRedCorvette » Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:26 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:47 am
I'm in Texas. Spouse had a 360k house when we met and then we bought a second, new primary house for 380k in my first year. Used an attorney loan so put 0 down. Kept the first house and have been renting it out. Combined they are now probably worth about 900k. Both are like 12 minutes from downtown.

I am a third year now and we are now in the process of building a ~1.2m house and will probably keep our current house as a rental again.

Our combined net worth when we purchased our current house was probably like 150k. I had over 100k in student loans at that point.

NW is now around 700k and HHI has recently increased to ~$450k (plus my bonus if I make it).
What’s the deal with attorney loans? Can you speak to that, process wise etc., when you decided to take that approach? Considering it…
It is a regular mortgage with no money down and no PMI.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:19 pm

LittleRedCorvette wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:15 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:26 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:47 am
I'm in Texas. Spouse had a 360k house when we met and then we bought a second, new primary house for 380k in my first year. Used an attorney loan so put 0 down. Kept the first house and have been renting it out. Combined they are now probably worth about 900k. Both are like 12 minutes from downtown.

I am a third year now and we are now in the process of building a ~1.2m house and will probably keep our current house as a rental again.

Our combined net worth when we purchased our current house was probably like 150k. I had over 100k in student loans at that point.

NW is now around 700k and HHI has recently increased to ~$450k (plus my bonus if I make it).
What’s the deal with attorney loans? Can you speak to that, process wise etc., when you decided to take that approach? Considering it…
It is a regular mortgage with no money down and no PMI.
What are the rates like? On par with standard 30yr?

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Sackboy » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:19 pm
What are the rates like? On par with standard 30yr?
Typically not from my experience checking these out. You will generally pay a higher rate.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 am

Sackboy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:19 pm
What are the rates like? On par with standard 30yr?
Typically not from my experience checking these out. You will generally pay a higher rate.
Interesting. I will add another data point that my JD mortgage (closed last month) had a competitive rate, though we put 10% down rather than 0%.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Sackboy » Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 am
Sackboy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:19 pm
What are the rates like? On par with standard 30yr?
Typically not from my experience checking these out. You will generally pay a higher rate.
Interesting. I will add another data point that my JD mortgage (closed last month) had a competitive rate, though we put 10% down rather than 0%.
10% is what I did, and I got a competitive rate. 0% greatly increases the chance that you (and consequently, the bank) end up underwater on a sale and should increase your rate.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2022 1:27 pm

Sackboy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:19 pm
What are the rates like? On par with standard 30yr?
Typically not from my experience checking these out. You will generally pay a higher rate.
My impression too. The whole premise of "doctor" and "lawyer" mortgages is that they're for young professionals who have good long-term earnings potential but haven't necessarily stacked a lot of cash from double combo of starting later than others and having significant loans. I think these are becoming increasingly less common and are more of an old-fashioned thing. (They're also distinct from the much more awesome, verging into insane options that you can get e.g., through Citi Private Bank if they have a relationship wtih your firm.)

I personally put down 20% on the idea it keeps you honest (don't buy more house than you can bite off), but I also didn't buy until I was in my 30s so I could see why someone in their 20s might find it attractive to do 0 or low% down.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:37 pm

Biglaw partner. Confirmed that Citi Private Bank is a great option if your firm has a relationship. My spouse and I got 3% on a 30 year fixed last year with just over 10% down on a house just under $2m. I had heard some bad things about the mortgage servicer they use (CENLAR) but my experiences with them thus far have been very good.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by BigLawPartner » Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:37 pm
Biglaw partner. Confirmed that Citi Private Bank is a great option if your firm has a relationship. My spouse and I got 3% on a 30 year fixed last year with just over 10% down on a house just under $2m. I had heard some bad things about the mortgage servicer they use (CENLAR) but my experiences with them thus far have been very good.
Yeah, Cenlar kinda sucks but using Citi Private Bank is still worth it. I've used them multiple times for home purchases, with lower rates than I could get pretty much anywhere else.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:57 pm

BigLawPartner wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:44 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:37 pm
Biglaw partner. Confirmed that Citi Private Bank is a great option if your firm has a relationship. My spouse and I got 3% on a 30 year fixed last year with just over 10% down on a house just under $2m. I had heard some bad things about the mortgage servicer they use (CENLAR) but my experiences with them thus far have been very good.
Yeah, Cenlar kinda sucks but using Citi Private Bank is still worth it. I've used them multiple times for home purchases, with lower rates than I could get pretty much anywhere else.
When they started advertising their 30-year INTEREST ONLY and FIXED for a 2nd / 3rd home I couldn't believe it. It's crazy. I also like how on their standard produts they're like "hey, only 5% down up to $10m, go ahead, swing for the fences bro" lol. I'm an income partner and so I'm relatively conservative but you know there are some equity partners buying houses in CT or CA taking full advantage of that in a way that may or may not work in the long run but, hey, you only live once ....

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:50 am

Sackboy wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:44 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:36 am
Sackboy wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:35 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:19 pm
What are the rates like? On par with standard 30yr?
Typically not from my experience checking these out. You will generally pay a higher rate.
Interesting. I will add another data point that my JD mortgage (closed last month) had a competitive rate, though we put 10% down rather than 0%.
10% is what I did, and I got a competitive rate. 0% greatly increases the chance that you (and consequently, the bank) end up underwater on a sale and should increase your rate.
OP of attorney loan in TX post -- our rate was slightly higher (3.2% vs like 3%) with the JD loan but we ran the numbers and the no PMI and 0 down more than made up for it. The rate didn't change on the JD loan regardless of how much we put down. We had more than enough for a down payment but no point in wasting money when you're borrowing at a low rate. We put it into another investment property instead.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:28 pm

I bought a 3bd condo for $550k as a second year in a secondary market. I regret it just because I wish I'd held on to more cash heading into this potential recession (now I only have a 3 month emergency fund), and it also needs some work that I now don't want to spend the money on/would rather rebuild savings in case of layoffs. I have ~$210k in student loans left and my lender approved me for up to $675k, which was very surprising to me.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:29 pm

- Bought home with spouse in early 2021, about six months after I left big law as a fifth-year associate and went in-house (paid off $250K in student loans while in big law)
- HHI: $500K
- Price: $1.2M, 20% down, 2.75% fixed on 30-year mortgage
- Spent $50K on renovations + $40K on furnishings, paid in all cash

While upfront costs felt like we were bleeding money (down payment, closing costs, renovations, and furnishings), a year later we are glad that we bought before interest rates went up, and we truly love our home and our neighborhood. We followed the 30/30/3 rule (spend no more than 30% of gross income on monthly mortgage payment; have at least 30% of home value saved in cash/semi-liquid assets; home price should be no more than 3x HHI), and we don't feel financially strained by our housing costs. We are able to save/invest each month while being able to comfortably spend on travel, entertainment, etc. (but don't have kids yet, which will definitely change our discretionary budget in the future).

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:41 am

I bought my house as a 4th year (after I paid off my student loans) in 2015. HHI was whatever the biglaw HHI was at the time. ~$600k for ~2000sq ft that is about 2.5 miles from my office.

I am a partner now, I still live in the same house and have no intent to move. I paid my mortgage off last year.

I think I overpaid a bit for the house and it definitely did not benefit from the COVID runup in property values, so I still book it as being worth the $600k that I paid for it. Has been a terrible "investment decision," but I still really like the place.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:29 pm
- Bought home with spouse in early 2021, about six months after I left big law as a fifth-year associate and went in-house (paid off $250K in student loans while in big law)
- HHI: $500K
- Price: $1.2M, 20% down, 2.75% fixed on 30-year mortgage
- Spent $50K on renovations + $40K on furnishings, paid in all cash

While upfront costs felt like we were bleeding money (down payment, closing costs, renovations, and furnishings), a year later we are glad that we bought before interest rates went up, and we truly love our home and our neighborhood. We followed the 30/30/3 rule (spend no more than 30% of gross income on monthly mortgage payment; have at least 30% of home value saved in cash/semi-liquid assets; home price should be no more than 3x HHI), and we don't feel financially strained by our housing costs. We are able to save/invest each month while being able to comfortably spend on travel, entertainment, etc. (but don't have kids yet, which will definitely change our discretionary budget in the future).
The 30/30/3 rule doesn't make sense to me in the era of low mortgage rates. I pay $5600 in mortgage/tax/insurance for my $1.2m home. According to the first 30 rule, I could afford that on $18,667/mo or $224k/yr. But at $224k, the 3 rule says I could only afford a $672k home - almost half as much as what I spent. It seems like the first 30 rule is always duplicative of and subsumed by the 3 rule. It really only makes sense when you're talking about 10%+ mortgage rates, but even then why use both? Don't they get at the same thing?

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:43 pm

As a single senior associate I find it very hard to figure out when to buy/what to buy

My personal obligations are basically zero (I don't need a big place to provide space for a fam), so there's no *need* for a house. And my future income is anywhere from $500k+ (if I'm still in biglaw) to $80k (if I flame out or go to public interest or something), which makes it hard to judge whether buying X or Y place is going to have been a good idea, five years down the road. My friends ask me pretty frequently when I'm going to buy, and my answer is always that I have no idea.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:43 pm
As a single senior associate I find it very hard to figure out when to buy/what to buy

My personal obligations are basically zero (I don't need a big place to provide space for a fam), so there's no *need* for a house. And my future income is anywhere from $500k+ (if I'm still in biglaw) to $80k (if I flame out or go to public interest or something), which makes it hard to judge whether buying X or Y place is going to have been a good idea, five years down the road. My friends ask me pretty frequently when I'm going to buy, and my answer is always that I have no idea.
Disclaimer: you never *have* to buy a place.

My $0.02 would be to buy a place you can afford on $80k in an up-an-coming neighborhood. There's a good (but not guaranteed) chance it will appreciate in value, so you can treat your housing costs as an investment rather than something to throw away. If you quit biglaw you're still fine, and if you keep holding on and continue to make bank you can either sell it or rent it out. If you need space for a family short term you can do the same.

With that said, I wouldn't buy now. There's a lot of uncertainty right now, so the last thing you would want is to be stuck under water in a place you didn't want. Maybe wait it out and see where the economy lands.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:47 pm

- Bought a 3BR, 3BA townhouse in early 2021 as a fourth-year associate, but have since gone in-house.
- Current HHI: $250K
- Price: $750K, 10% down, 2.75% fixed on 30-year mortgage. PMI was dirt cheap (i.e. $80 a month) so I didn't sweat the sub 20% down payment.
- All in monthly payment is $3,000 (i.e. mortgage, PMI, property taxes, HOI). I originally bought it solo, but my SO has since moved in, so we split it.
- Spent $15K on renovations and furnishings, all cash. The place could use quite a bit more. It's not a fixer, but it hasn't been reno-ed in 20 years.

I'm grateful to have locked in a low rate when I could, particularly since I'm in a pretty rapidly changing neighborhood where prices have gone up a lot, but it also does make you think twice about moving. I couldn't get the same rate again, so there's a vague sense of golden handcuffs in terms of location. Sometimes I wish I'd gone bigger in a nicer neighborhood, but it's nice to have the relative security of knowing I'm not at the edge of my means.

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Re: Biglaw associates: What class year were you when you bought a house? How expensive of a house did you get?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:06 am
The 30/30/3 rule doesn't make sense to me in the era of low mortgage rates. I pay $5600 in mortgage/tax/insurance for my $1.2m home. According to the first 30 rule, I could afford that on $18,667/mo or $224k/yr. But at $224k, the 3 rule says I could only afford a $672k home - almost half as much as what I spent. It seems like the first 30 rule is always duplicative of and subsumed by the 3 rule. It really only makes sense when you're talking about 10%+ mortgage rates, but even then why use both? Don't they get at the same thing?
This Financial Samurai article explains the 30/30/3 rule, which does say that with lower mortgage interest rates, you can expand the multiple to 5, so it's really more of the "30/30/3-5" rule. (Disclaimer: Not advertising the blog, just linking the article where the rule is from)

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