2023 Vault/Firsthand Rankings Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any predictions for moving in/out of the v20? I'm guessing that Paul Hastings and White Case drop out.

Heard Milbank was pleased with its substantial gain. Prob v10 or even v5 now.

I’ll be delighted if I’m wrong, but there’s absolutely no way Milbank is a V5.

I’m pretty much 100% sure Vault does some smoothing year to year to limit major jumps that might otherwise happen due to sudden compensation-related bursts of popularity / major declines due to layoffs (cough Latham cough).

Milbank as a V5 wouldn’t reflect reality in any conventional sense, and would make Vault less credible by extension, and I don’t think they will allow that to happen. Could be wrong though, in which case Milbank will have got more than it’s money’s worth from being a comp leader, and will hopefully inspire other perennial outsiders to raise the stakes in hope of a major vault jump.

Paying more money than other firms or raising the market is prestigious. And Vault is about prestige. So jumping for moving money is reasonable. You forget Milbank jumped 15 spots after it first raised market.

You think we respect Wachtell so highly because they work their associates more than other firms? No, it's the money. They also have a reputation justified or not for being exceedingly intelligent/doing more complex work than even their "peers."

Milbank has no real prestige. Dead stop.

lol at this take. Milbank probably has the *most* "real" prestige right now alongside STB. They're moving compensation in the industry. None of the fantasy shit people care about in law school matters.

[Anonymous User]

Any predictions for moving in/out of the v20? I'm guessing that Paul Hastings and White Case drop out.

Heard Milbank was pleased with its substantial gain. Prob v10 or even v5 now.

I’ll be delighted if I’m wrong, but there’s absolutely no way Milbank is a V5.

I’m pretty much 100% sure Vault does some smoothing year to year to limit major jumps that might otherwise happen due to sudden compensation-related bursts of popularity / major declines due to layoffs (cough Latham cough).

Milbank as a V5 wouldn’t reflect reality in any conventional sense, and would make Vault less credible by extension, and I don’t think they will allow that to happen. Could be wrong though, in which case Milbank will have got more than it’s money’s worth from being a comp leader, and will hopefully inspire other perennial outsiders to raise the stakes in hope of a major vault jump.

Paying more money than other firms or raising the market is prestigious. And Vault is about prestige. So jumping for moving money is reasonable. You forget Milbank jumped 15 spots after it first raised market.

You think we respect Wachtell so highly because they work their associates more than other firms? No, it's the money. They also have a reputation justified or not for being exceedingly intelligent/doing more complex work than even their "peers."

Milbank has no real prestige. Dead stop.

lol at this take. Milbank probably has the *most* "real" prestige right now alongside STB. They're moving compensation in the industry. None of the fantasy shit people care about in law school matters.

STB has prestige because of their client base and top notch work. Milbanks "prestige" is because they raised salaries. Don't get me wrong, I'm super thankful that Milbank did so. But I don't think that equals the prestige of STB/DPW

[Anonymous User]

Prestige can absolutely be bought lol. What is this some old Yale club meeting complaining about how tech bros have no class because they don't know which fork to use.

[Anonymous User]

Prestige can absolutely be bought lol. What is this some old Yale club meeting complaining about how tech bros have no class because they don't know which fork to use.

A decent proportion of TLS is law students, clerks, and junior associates for whom it's deeply important that people understand that Paul Weiss is more "prestigious" than Millbank for ... you know, reasons. I don't actually blame them for this mentality because it's been foisted on them. As you get more senior, I think most people begin to understand the artificiality of a lot of the "prestige" discussion and how it is divorced from the motivations of partners, which are driven much more by financial metrics (which in turn end up building the "prestige" in a self-justifying way). In a way, "prestige" is a giant cope for an industry that doesn't want to admit to some incoming first year that this is now being done mostly for the money versus "how things were" back in 1948 because that would be "dirty."

[Moneytrees]

Any predictions for moving in/out of the v20? I'm guessing that Paul Hastings and White Case drop out.

Heard Milbank was pleased with its substantial gain. Prob v10 or even v5 now.

I’ll be delighted if I’m wrong, but there’s absolutely no way Milbank is a V5.

I’m pretty much 100% sure Vault does some smoothing year to year to limit major jumps that might otherwise happen due to sudden compensation-related bursts of popularity / major declines due to layoffs (cough Latham cough).

Milbank as a V5 wouldn’t reflect reality in any conventional sense, and would make Vault less credible by extension, and I don’t think they will allow that to happen. Could be wrong though, in which case Milbank will have got more than it’s money’s worth from being a comp leader, and will hopefully inspire other perennial outsiders to raise the stakes in hope of a major vault jump.

Paying more money than other firms or raising the market is prestigious. And Vault is about prestige. So jumping for moving money is reasonable. You forget Milbank jumped 15 spots after it first raised market.

You think we respect Wachtell so highly because they work their associates more than other firms? No, it's the money. They also have a reputation justified or not for being exceedingly intelligent/doing more complex work than even their "peers."

Milbank has no real prestige. Dead stop.

lol at this take. Milbank probably has the *most* "real" prestige right now alongside STB. They're moving compensation in the industry. None of the fantasy shit people care about in law school matters.

STB has prestige because of their client base and top notch work. Milbanks "prestige" is because they raised salaries. Don't get me wrong, I'm super thankful that Milbank did so. But I don't think that equals the prestige of STB/DPW

This is a pretty outdated way of thinking about prestige IMO. Every top firm has an elite roster of clients in this day and age. Big, institutional clients generally use a multitude of law firms now - it's not like Goldman Sachs is only giving work to one or two white shoe NY firms anymore. Milbank and STB/DPW's client base is probably very similar.

[SGTslaughter]

Prestige can absolutely be bought lol. What is this some old Yale club meeting complaining about how tech bros have no class because they don't know which fork to use.

This is actually exactly the mentality of a lot of the people in this field lmao. Think of how much of a loser you need to be to sit on an internet forum and argue for pages about which law firm is more prestigious than the other. The totally made up gatekeeping is all you have when you're making substantially less money than a techbro while working insanely worse hours in an insanely worse environment.

[Anonymous User]

Prestige can absolutely be bought lol. What is this some old Yale club meeting complaining about how tech bros have no class because they don't know which fork to use.

This is actually exactly the mentality of a lot of the people in this field lmao. Think of how much of a loser you need to be to sit on an internet forum and argue for pages about which law firm is more prestigious than the other. The totally made up gatekeeping is all you have when you're making substantially less money than a techbro while working insanely worse hours in an insanely worse environment.

Jaded take

[Anonymous User]

wait did the vault rankings just drop? I checked and Milbank is now number 11 and DPW is 4. LET'S FUCKING GO

[Anonymous User]

wait did the vault rankings just drop? I checked and Milbank is now number 11 and DPW is 4. LET'S FUCKING GO

The madlads are another 5k raise away from successfully breaking into the V10 through sheer balls.

[Anonymous User]

wait did the vault rankings just drop? I checked and Milbank is now number 11 and DPW is 4. LET'S FUCKING GO

The madlads are another 5k raise away from successfully breaking into the V10 through sheer balls.

"Leading the charge in compensation, Milbank is among the most elite law firms for corporate law." Sounds like good, logic, causal relationship to me.

[Anonymous User]

BSF now sub-50. Still too high

[Anonymous User]

Holy shit Milbank moved up 12 spots. This has to qualify as one of the bigger moves in Vault ranking history.
Guess that puts to bed all the "le prestige can't be bought!" whiners here. Daddy Milbank just bought himself some prestige.

[LittleRedCorvette]

Kirkland to #7 -- KE associates on suicide watch.

[Anonymous User]

STB looking at Milbank's 12 spot moving and wondering who the hell this pissed off to have no change.

[Anonymous User]

STB looking at Milbank's 12 spot moving and wondering who the hell this pissed off to have no change.

To counter, they haven't done shit since they raised salaries in 2006 or whatever

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland to #7 -- KE associates on suicide watch.

I put my notice in already. That is unacceptable.

[Anonymous User]

STB looking at Milbank's 12 spot moving and wondering who the hell this pissed off to have no change.

To counter, they haven't done shit since they raised salaries in 2006 or whatever

This was me doing a brain fart. I meant DPW which rightfully moved up from 7 to 4, so now into the V5. Basically both Milbank and DPW have been handsomely rewarding for, well, handsomely rewarding associates.

[Anonymous User]

Latham still at #5 is peculiar. If anything KE should go to #5 and Latham should go to #7.

[Anonymous User]

wait did the vault rankings just drop? I checked and Milbank is now number 11 and DPW is 4. LET'S FUCKING GO

The madlads are another 5k raise away from successfully breaking into the V10 through sheer balls.

A firm of focus, commitment, and sheer fucking will.

[Spider2YBanana]

As an associate, I'm perfectly willing to participate in the experiment as to whether prestige can be bought.

[BrowsingTLS]

Paying more money than other firms or raising the market is prestigious. And Vault is about prestige. So jumping for moving money is reasonable. You forget Milbank jumped 15 spots after it first raised market.

You think we respect Wachtell so highly because they work their associates more than other firms? No, it's the money. They also have a reputation justified or not for being exceedingly intelligent/doing more complex work than even their "peers."

Milbank has no real prestige. Dead stop.

Sorry they rejected you at OCI. And thanks for the anon non-argument.

Milbank to V10.

Now that my initial prediction of Milbank being in V11 happened, I want to repeat that Vault is about prestige, paying more money and raising salaries is prestigious, and Milbank is rightfully ascending the ranks year over year. 15 jumps after 160 to 180K. 12 jumps after getting us to 215K starting. This is how the game is played. See you in the V10 next year Milbank.

[Anonymous User]

No matter your firm, you should be happy with Milbank's rice. For the non-partners here (which is basically all of us) we should be rooting for Milbank to shoot up the vault ranks and have the prestige that comes with it. Yes this is good for Milbank, but it is also good for us insofar as it 1) encourages Milbank to continually increase salaries and 2) puts pressure on firms like DPW and Cravath to maintain their Milbank + a little re-raise posture. I'm sorry but if you're posting "I will never look at Milbank as equals with a 'real' V10 firm" you're kinda a loser and don't know how much new law students unfamiliar with the law firm world obsess over stupid things like vault rankings and let it guide their decisions.

[Anonymous User]

Let's not forget that in 2019 Milbank was at #40. Money talks.

https://legacy.vault.com/best-companies ... /year/2019

[Anonymous User]

Damn S&C taking that L

[Anonymous User]

As someone who picked Milbank in summer 2018, after the first raise but before the massive jumps in rank, the new Vault ranking feels so vindicating. I didn't pick the firm for the money or the rank, I picked it because it was the firm that I thought I could last the longest at.

I'll never forget the classmate of mine at my t14 who, when I said I'd be heading to Milbank as a summer associate, said "oh they're the ones that raised salaries? Strange that they did that, because since everyone matched it isn't like it will make them anymore prestigious. But I guess no one ever heard of them before that so maybe it was just for publicity." Anyway, hope that jerk enjoys that my "previously unknown" firm is now ranked higher than their firm.

Vault is stupid and pointless though.