Living in New Jersey during Biglaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

[Anonymous User]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

Single people don't typically live in the Jersey suburbs of Manhattan, unless they're living in Jersey because they can't afford to live in the city. And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway. So regardless of whether you're looking for a life partner or a one-night stand, living in Manhattan or Brooklyn is better than living in Jersey for purposes of dating.

[Anonymous User]

And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway.

yikes

[nealric]

And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway.

yikes

It sounds dismissive of New Jersey-ites and a bit snobby, but can see where the post is coming from. Most biglaw attorneys probably aren't going to be interested in a long term relationship with someone who isn't a college graduate/working a professional job. Of course education, jobs, and cultural backgrounds don't define someone's worth or date-ability, but most people tend to seek out partners with similar backgrounds (i.e. professional types tend to seek out other professionals). Obviously, New Jersey has plenty of educated professionals, but the concentration is going to be higher in Manhattan than Jersey City.

[LBJ's Hair]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

both. on both a absolute number per sq mile and % population, there are way more college-educated single people between 25-35 in Manhattan/Brooklyn than the NJ suburbs

(if you're a racial/ethnic minority looking to date within the group, even more important to be in NYC)

[Anonymous User]

TLS taking bizarre snobbery to new heights. People on JC and Hoboken are too low class for law firm associates? You’re gonna see the same crop of people on Tinder if you live in Jersey City or Tribeca (I’ve lived in both).

[Anonymous User]

Lived in Hoboken for years 1-3 as an associate. The commute wasn't the easiest, but it was worth it (taxes, rent/space, etc). Unless living in the Village/Soho, which are the "best" for going out, I would rank Hoboken as up there with NYC (lived in Fidi, UES, UWS, Village and Soho) for social life.

We moved farther out in NJ for a house. Longer commute but easier commute with a nice NJ Transit train that we can walk to. Firm is hybrid and it's quite doable. If you like the outdoors (golf (or really any sports), hiking, skiing), NJ is way, way better.

The question is: Does your life revolve around going out to bars? Then live in NYC. Otherwise, you will never sleep. You're paying an NYC bars tax.

[Anonymous User]

Lived in Hoboken for years 1-3 as an associate. The commute wasn't the easiest, but it was worth it (taxes, rent/space, etc). Unless living in the Village/Soho, which are the "best" for going out, I would rank Hoboken as up there with NYC (lived in Fidi, UES, UWS, Village and Soho) for social life.

We moved farther out in NJ for a house. Longer commute but easier commute with a nice NJ Transit train that we can walk to. Firm is hybrid and it's quite doable. If you like the outdoors (golf (or really any sports), hiking, skiing), NJ is way, way better.

The question is: Does your life revolve around going out to bars? Then live in NYC. Otherwise, you will never sleep. You're paying an NYC bars tax.

If you're a single (or even partnered) gay guy, then I would add Hell's Kitchen to the above list.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

Single people don't typically live in the Jersey suburbs of Manhattan, unless they're living in Jersey because they can't afford to live in the city. And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway. So regardless of whether you're looking for a life partner or a one-night stand, living in Manhattan or Brooklyn is better than living in Jersey for purposes of dating.

If you're near the waterfront in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Weehawken, then you might actually live near fewer poor people than in, e.g., Hell's Kitchen, because it's almost all luxury new development high rises, and there isn't a giant group of people in subsidized, rent-controlled, and rent-stabilized housing like in NYC. A lot of wealthy people love living over there, especially since they get to shirk the city tax. The commute isn't that different from living in Brooklyn or Queens.

I have no interest in living in Jersey, but overall, your post is totally off. I have seen tons of hot girls working in banking, medicine, biglaw, etc. on dating apps with Hoboken/JC/Weehawken locations listed. And what you consider "fancy credentials" doesn't really mean anything in this city, because a t14 degree, an entry-level biglaw gig, and a bundle of debt is a dime-a-dozen around here.

[Anonymous User]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

Single people don't typically live in the Jersey suburbs of Manhattan, unless they're living in Jersey because they can't afford to live in the city. And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway. So regardless of whether you're looking for a life partner or a one-night stand, living in Manhattan or Brooklyn is better than living in Jersey for purposes of dating.

If you're near the waterfront in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Weehawken, then you might actually live near fewer poor people than in, e.g., Hell's Kitchen, because it's almost all luxury new development high rises, and there isn't a giant group of people in subsidized, rent-controlled, and rent-stabilized housing like in NYC. A lot of wealthy people love living over there, especially since they get to shirk the city tax. The commute isn't that different from living in Brooklyn or Queens.

I have no interest in living in Jersey, but overall, your post is totally off. I have seen tons of hot girls working in banking, medicine, biglaw, etc. on dating apps with Hoboken/JC/Weehawken locations listed. And what you consider "fancy credentials" doesn't really mean anything in this city, because a t14 degree, an entry-level biglaw gig, and a bundle of debt is a dime-a-dozen around here.

If you live in Jersey, a not insignificant number of people who live in the city won't date you and/or won't go on dates with you if it means coming to Jersey. You'll be an automatic swipe left. It could be you think that those people are ass-holes and that you're well rid of them. But it's true nonetheless.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

Single people don't typically live in the Jersey suburbs of Manhattan, unless they're living in Jersey because they can't afford to live in the city. And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway. So regardless of whether you're looking for a life partner or a one-night stand, living in Manhattan or Brooklyn is better than living in Jersey for purposes of dating.

If you're near the waterfront in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Weehawken, then you might actually live near fewer poor people than in, e.g., Hell's Kitchen, because it's almost all luxury new development high rises, and there isn't a giant group of people in subsidized, rent-controlled, and rent-stabilized housing like in NYC. A lot of wealthy people love living over there, especially since they get to shirk the city tax. The commute isn't that different from living in Brooklyn or Queens.

I have no interest in living in Jersey, but overall, your post is totally off. I have seen tons of hot girls working in banking, medicine, biglaw, etc. on dating apps with Hoboken/JC/Weehawken locations listed. And what you consider "fancy credentials" doesn't really mean anything in this city, because a t14 degree, an entry-level biglaw gig, and a bundle of debt is a dime-a-dozen around here.

If you live in Jersey, a not insignificant number of people who live in the city won't date you and/or won't go on dates with you if it means coming to Jersey. You'll be an automatic swipe left. It could be you think that those people are ass-holes and that you're well rid of them. But it's true nonetheless.

Many TLS posters couldn't get a date even if they inherited a $10 million loft in Tribeca, but to your point, yes there is definitely a subset of folks who will auto-deny Jersey. For straight dating, my experience is that women are more likely to judge harshly on neighborhood/location.

I've always lived in Manhattan during my career. In my experience, the hot but hyper judgmental/bratty girls wouldn't date 95% of the biglaw crowd no matter where they lived. They want to know where you went to high school, who's in your social circle, what your parents do, where you grew up, where you vacationed growing up, where you went to summer camp, etc. The typical T14 or T6 grad in biglaw isn't checking nearly enough boxes for them. Yes, it will be easier for the Average T14 Joe to get Hinge dates with a West Village location versus a Jersey City location, but he won't be crushing it, and he'll strike out instantly with many of these girls when they ferret out his background and social status.

[Anonymous User]

also if you are single, dating in Manhattan/Brooklyn>>>>>>NJ. I don't think that's really debatable

What do you mean by dating? Is that just general dating or dating oriented specifically toward finding a spouse with whom to raise a family/children? There is obviously a numbers advantage to Manhattan/NYC, but not sure whether that applies to every goal of dating.

Single people don't typically live in the Jersey suburbs of Manhattan, unless they're living in Jersey because they can't afford to live in the city. And as a biglaw associate with a high salary and (presumably) fancy credentials, you're probably not interested in dating those people anyway. So regardless of whether you're looking for a life partner or a one-night stand, living in Manhattan or Brooklyn is better than living in Jersey for purposes of dating.

If you're near the waterfront in Jersey City, Hoboken, or Weehawken, then you might actually live near fewer poor people than in, e.g., Hell's Kitchen, because it's almost all luxury new development high rises, and there isn't a giant group of people in subsidized, rent-controlled, and rent-stabilized housing like in NYC. A lot of wealthy people love living over there, especially since they get to shirk the city tax. The commute isn't that different from living in Brooklyn or Queens.

I have no interest in living in Jersey, but overall, your post is totally off. I have seen tons of hot girls working in banking, medicine, biglaw, etc. on dating apps with Hoboken/JC/Weehawken locations listed. And what you consider "fancy credentials" doesn't really mean anything in this city, because a t14 degree, an entry-level biglaw gig, and a bundle of debt is a dime-a-dozen around here.

If you live in Jersey, a not insignificant number of people who live in the city won't date you and/or won't go on dates with you if it means coming to Jersey. You'll be an automatic swipe left. It could be you think that those people are ass-holes and that you're well rid of them. But it's true nonetheless.

Many TLS posters couldn't get a date even if they inherited a $10 million loft in Tribeca, but to your point, yes there is definitely a subset of folks who will auto-deny Jersey. For straight dating, my experience is that women are more likely to judge harshly on neighborhood/location.

I've always lived in Manhattan during my career. In my experience, the hot but hyper judgmental/bratty girls wouldn't date 95% of the biglaw crowd no matter where they lived. They want to know where you went to high school, who's in your social circle, what your parents do, where you grew up, where you vacationed growing up, where you went to summer camp, etc. The typical T14 or T6 grad in biglaw isn't checking nearly enough boxes for them. Yes, it will be easier for the Average T14 Joe to get Hinge dates with a West Village location versus a Jersey City location, but he won't be crushing it, and he'll strike out instantly with many of these girls when they ferret out his background and social status.

There are adult women who care about where someone went to high school and summer camp? This is either a flame or there is a world of people out there in this city that I (thankfully) had no idea existed...

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

There are adult women who care about where someone went to high school and summer camp? This is either a flame or there is a world of people out there in this city that I (thankfully) had no idea existed...

Yes, and I’ve met many of them. These are the folks who are obsessed with being elite / upper crust / exclusive — they’d run away from the average biglaw associate like he was about to give them Ebola.

Anyway, I concede that dating is easier if you live in lower Manhattan v. Jersey. What I’m saying is that, because the type of person who discriminates by neighborhood may have countless other dealbreakers in mind, living in the right neighborhood doesn’t necessarily solve the dating Rubik’s cube.

[Anonymous User]

There are adult women who care about where someone went to high school and summer camp? This is either a flame or there is a world of people out there in this city that I (thankfully) had no idea existed...

Yes, and I’ve met many of them. These are the folks who are obsessed with being elite / upper crust / exclusive — they’d run away from the average biglaw associate like he was about to give them Ebola.

Anyway, I concede that dating is easier if you live in lower Manhattan v. Jersey. What I’m saying is that, because the type of person who discriminates by neighborhood may have countless other dealbreakers in mind, living in the right neighborhood doesn’t necessarily solve the dating Rubik’s cube.

There's definitely a particular set that needs that preftige that working for a living just doesn't give you, no matter what your job is.

[Anonymous User]

There are adult women who care about where someone went to high school and summer camp? This is either a flame or there is a world of people out there in this city that I (thankfully) had no idea existed...

Yes, and I’ve met many of them. These are the folks who are obsessed with being elite / upper crust / exclusive — they’d run away from the average biglaw associate like he was about to give them Ebola.

Anyway, I concede that dating is easier if you live in lower Manhattan v. Jersey. What I’m saying is that, because the type of person who discriminates by neighborhood may have countless other dealbreakers in mind, living in the right neighborhood doesn’t necessarily solve the dating Rubik’s cube.

There's definitely a particular set that needs that preftige that working for a living just doesn't give you, no matter what your job is.

I get that, but judging prestige based on high school and summer camp seems particularly immature. Surely by the time you are in your mid 20s and beyond you have moved on to other meaningless markers of social class....

[Anonymous User]

There are adult women who care about where someone went to high school and summer camp? This is either a flame or there is a world of people out there in this city that I (thankfully) had no idea existed...

Yes, and I’ve met many of them. These are the folks who are obsessed with being elite / upper crust / exclusive — they’d run away from the average biglaw associate like he was about to give them Ebola.

Anyway, I concede that dating is easier if you live in lower Manhattan v. Jersey. What I’m saying is that, because the type of person who discriminates by neighborhood may have countless other dealbreakers in mind, living in the right neighborhood doesn’t necessarily solve the dating Rubik’s cube.

There's definitely a particular set that needs that preftige that working for a living just doesn't give you, no matter what your job is.

I get that, but judging prestige based on high school and summer camp seems particularly immature. Surely by the time you are in your mid 20s and beyond you have moved on to other meaningless markers of social class....

So the thing is these people have been running in the same NY circles their whole lives (maybe they went as far off as Cambridge for college, but more than likely they went to New Haven or Princeton). They run with a specific group of rich NYers who all went and did the same stuff their entire lives.

Some of them break and head for the hills (I met a girl once in a bar in rural Montana who was from the very very very upper crust of NYC; we failed to hit it off in large part because her last name clicked for me about midway through our convo and I asked about it), but the vast majority just keep at the game because that's all they know and all they've always known. It's kind of sad, really.

[Anonymous User]

Jesus Christ just date people you went to undergrad or law school with

[Anonymous User]

Jesus Christ just date people you went to undergrad or law school with

why would I do that when I could... not?

[Anonymous User]

There are adult women who care about where someone went to high school and summer camp? This is either a flame or there is a world of people out there in this city that I (thankfully) had no idea existed...

Yes, and I’ve met many of them. These are the folks who are obsessed with being elite / upper crust / exclusive — they’d run away from the average biglaw associate like he was about to give them Ebola.

Anyway, I concede that dating is easier if you live in lower Manhattan v. Jersey. What I’m saying is that, because the type of person who discriminates by neighborhood may have countless other dealbreakers in mind, living in the right neighborhood doesn’t necessarily solve the dating Rubik’s cube.

There's definitely a particular set that needs that preftige that working for a living just doesn't give you, no matter what your job is.

I get that, but judging prestige based on high school and summer camp seems particularly immature. Surely by the time you are in your mid 20s and beyond you have moved on to other meaningless markers of social class....

So the thing is these people have been running in the same NY circles their whole lives (maybe they went as far off as Cambridge for college, but more than likely they went to New Haven or Princeton). They run with a specific group of rich NYers who all went and did the same stuff their entire lives.

Some of them break and head for the hills (I met a girl once in a bar in rural Montana who was from the very very very upper crust of NYC; we failed to hit it off in large part because her last name clicked for me about midway through our convo and I asked about it), but the vast majority just keep at the game because that's all they know and all they've always known. It's kind of sad, really.

This is fascinating - and chimes well with my experience. Other than meeting people who live in Manhattan, I think another advantage of living in lower Manhattan is its proximity to Brooklyn and LIC/Astoria. Many of the people I've dated who've seemed like the real keepers (even though they haven't liked me back) seem to wind up there. Plenty of them have the most elite educational credentials you can find, but are smart enough not to pay crazy rent when they can do UX/consulting type jobs substantially from home. This is not to say you won't have a shot with people like this in NJ - I wouldn't know - but I suspect the distance makes it harder.

As for the crowd you describe, I don't begrudge them their lot. A lot of them are married to someone suitable by 28, half of them are divorced by 38. It's no different from towns and cities anywhere. Maybe we're just surprised that it happens here because there are more, and apparently more sophisticated, people. I think what makes NY different is that there's a not insignificant number of people who were born and raised in New York, went to Spence/Collegiate/Exeter and Yale or Williams (etc) who are happily married to Venezuelan doctors or Indian fashion designers or Greek finance MDs. They're just not all that visible, I guess. And someone who went to Hunter or Stuyvesant is probably going to have better chat, and also lives here. They'll also likely have better taste, which can cut against some of us. It still doesn't mean that they'll be open to someone living in NJ, though ... (If this is at all interesting, https://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/educati ... es/n_8065/ has always fascinated me.)

If finding someone here is important to you, I agree with the general consensus that you'll find yourself the subject of left swipes by loads of people who live in Manhattan if you live in NJ - or even the Bronx, Staten Island or Queens. Maybe that's ok. There's something to be said for taking bold actions to limit your pool off the bat. As the epidemic of singledom in New York should demonstrate, more choice of partners doesn't always translate to any greater likelihood of finding one for life.

With all the difficulty, disappointment, and cost that comes with dating in NY, I think there's still something to be said for trying not to move to Hoboken alone. For one, you don't have to face the issues that come with trying to date in NJ (assuming your relationship's stable).Second, don't forget that you'll save even more on rent by halving the cost with someone else.

[Anonymous User]

Only vaguely related question, but how many days would it take an entering associate to find a 1-bedroom apartment, assuming they're will to pay the listed price and accept on the spot? Would a week of rigorous hunting do?

[LittleRedCorvette]

Only vaguely related question, but how many days would it take an entering associate to find a 1-bedroom apartment, assuming they're will to pay the listed price and accept on the spot? Would a week of rigorous hunting do?

Yes.

[Anonymous User]

Only vaguely related question, but how many days would it take an entering associate to find a 1-bedroom apartment, assuming they're will to pay the listed price and accept on the spot? Would a week of rigorous hunting do?

Yes.

OK that's good. I've seen a few alarming articles referring to around-the-block lines for open houses.

[Billywonderful]

NYC is terrible

Being in fear for your life is not exciting

Subways are not exciting

$30 for a pizza also.....

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Only vaguely related question, but how many days would it take an entering associate to find a 1-bedroom apartment, assuming they're will to pay the listed price and accept on the spot? Would a week of rigorous hunting do?

Yes.

OK that's good. I've seen a few alarming articles referring to around-the-black lines for open houses.

The around the block lines are for affordable studios and one bedrooms, mostly in downtown Manhattan and in prime Brooklyn. If you live somewhere less wildly popular it’ll be cheaper and less stressful.

[Anonymous User]

In good TLS form, this thread went haywire fairly quickly.

A commute in biglaw is standard for everyone but single juniors. If you have good public transportation you can work on the train etc. Hybrid work means that it's likely not 5 days a week and you can be more flexible about nights and weekends.

If you're in a firm that requires you to return to the office at night or come in weekends -- lateral ASAP. That's weird.