Tips to survive a long time in Biglaw? Forum

[Anonymous User]

A good advice but I think the highlighted is the key or otherwise you are going to start losing significant amount of $$$$ from 4/5th year on billing 1700/1800 by missing out on bonuses and it may actually be better, money wise, to bill 2k for X years than 1700/1800 for X plus years.

I am actually surprised that you managed to only bill 1700/1800 for that long at no hours req firm. There was a thread back where folks were arguing you are going to average more hours at no hours req firm and it may be better to stick to 2k hours req firm if your goal is to survive in biglaw.

This - with RPL numbers it seems much harder to stay under 2k hours at no hours req firms. Sub 2000 hours at a no hours required firm is the absolute unicorn of biglaw associate life but does not appear to be a common path. At an hours minimum firm I think you have to go for bonus - otherwise inhouse probably pays the same if not more.

A good way to get around the hours requirement is to specialize in a niche practice that no/few other attorneys at your firm do. I was super lucky and lucked into this, I learned everything about a certain niche practice from this one senior associate who specialized in it, and when he left the firm for another opportunity, I was now the go-to person for it. So I pretty much only took work in this niche area, and there wasn’t quite enough work to meet the billable hours requirements, but I always got good reviews/a full bonus because the work I did was valuable to the firm.

[Anonymous User]

In my experience, the associates that get crushed the most and burn out the quickest are the ones that are the most "effective" junior associates. That usually means: the most responsive, the most organized, the most available and the most engaged. Word spreads fast at law firms and everyone will want to staff you on their project.

The key to lasting in biglaw is not be one of those associates. You just need to be mediocre for the first 3-4 years (don't be the worst either). Work hard on figuring out how far you can push this boundary while still being reasonably liked by a majority of people you work with (easier said than done).

The secret is that the skillset to being a successful senior associate or partner is completely different from being a junior. People that are amazing juniors sometimes are shitty senior associates. Usually the gap in skillset relates either to (lack of) substantive knowledge or business development ability. Being less organized, engaged or responsive, or even working fewer hours, is more tolerated as you get more senior when you bring other more substantive skills to the table.

Use the extra free time you have from not working as much as the other gunner juniors to improve your substantive knowledge of your practice area/industry, or to network with your friends. Eventually you may even become more valuable than the superstar juniors while working 60-70% as many hours as them.

The caveat to all of this is that if you manage to coast for 4-5 years and bring no substantive skills to the table at the end, the firm may start to push you out.

"just be bad" seems like...not great advice? I guess you can find the balance but I don't think it's that easy.

[thisismytlsuername]

I would add two things: (1) be likeable and (2) be as responsive as possible.

To emphasize this, do not complain to superiors when accepting work / accepting assignments / discussing work. When you say "will do," say it with a smile on your face or in your voice.

In one of my early reviews, the partner said "we haven't seen much of your work yet, but you're available and always have a good attitude, so keep it up."

[Anonymous User]

In my experience, the associates that get crushed the most and burn out the quickest are the ones that are the most "effective" junior associates. That usually means: the most responsive, the most organized, the most available and the most engaged. Word spreads fast at law firms and everyone will want to staff you on their project.

The key to lasting in biglaw is not be one of those associates. You just need to be mediocre for the first 3-4 years (don't be the worst either). Work hard on figuring out how far you can push this boundary while still being reasonably liked by a majority of people you work with (easier said than done).

The secret is that the skillset to being a successful senior associate or partner is completely different from being a junior. People that are amazing juniors sometimes are shitty senior associates. Usually the gap in skillset relates either to (lack of) substantive knowledge or business development ability. Being less organized, engaged or responsive, or even working fewer hours, is more tolerated as you get more senior when you bring other more substantive skills to the table.

Use the extra free time you have from not working as much as the other gunner juniors to improve your substantive knowledge of your practice area/industry, or to network with your friends. Eventually you may even become more valuable than the superstar juniors while working 60-70% as many hours as them.

The caveat to all of this is that if you manage to coast for 4-5 years and bring no substantive skills to the table at the end, the firm may start to push you out.

"just be bad" seems like...not great advice? I guess you can find the balance but I don't think it's that easy.

OP here - you're right you can't be bad. But there's a huge range between being one of the best and one of the worst juniors.

There's been other good advice in this thread for how to do it. Mostly it involves laying low, never asking for more work and trying to turn down as much work as possible. Be responsive but not overly responsive, have a good attitude but don't volunteer to handle extra work, etc.

You should also consider lateraling early. It allows you to take more control over your career than you usually have as a junior. If you're actually committed to biglaw, it can get you out of toxic or extremely busy groups, and it can also help get rid of a bad reputation from your previous firm. If you only care about coasting for as along as possible, it resets all your work streams for 3-6 months and I've seen many associates bounce around 3 or 4 firms before getting out of biglaw (lasting 5-7 years).

[tls843539]

Recommend always working hard and being selective with who you work with. Find your core team that treat you well and you’re off to the races. That really helps on managing hours, performance expectations, etc.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

just be bad" seems like...not great advice? I guess you can find the balance but I don't think it's that easy.

The reason it's pretty easy is because is if the top 5% of associates are making partner and the bottom 5% are getting fired, then the 6th and the 94th percentile are headed for roughly the same outcome. You can figure out a sustainable path for you with a very wide range of potential performance.

No one is saying to actively blow off assignments when you're staffed on a deal or not answer relevant emails but...you can be "the guy who gets his work done" versus the guy who goes over everything with a fine-toothed comb for hours. I've said several times the key to sustainability is finding two or three of the least awful partners, doing good work for them to get a full plate, and ignoring everyone else. For me, that was definitely working for partners who were already overwhelmed and happy to just have an associate who was "on top of it" when we had a lot of paper rather than someone who loved all the details and micromanaging.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

My old group had a database of specific ongoing reporting requirements for various deals, run by associates in the group because they "knew the particulars of the deals" even though paralegals could have easily run it. One of my tactics was volunteering to do it when the last guy who ran it left. This "showed initiative" according to my review but it turns out I had correctly guessed that it was something that both the clients and the partners had zero interest in, and that I could pretty much handle it however I wanted to, as long as it got done and the bills for it weren't crazy. So I could either knock a bunch of it out when I had downtime, or if I was slammed, delegate it down. In addition to being billable for each client, "managing the database" (which of course had zero oversight) counted as bonus-eligible hours. All in all, it summed to a few hundred hours a year. Probably got me out of two or three nightmare deals every year, for what amounted to very little stress.

I fucked up a deadline once and got screamed at on Christmas Eve about how I had jeopardized the client's whatever. Apologized and said it would never happen again. It didn't. I think part of what made me less dispensable was that I was the only one who knew how the thing worked, because I deliberately never fully trained anyone else on it. I did it for years, until I left the firm.

[Anonymous User]

Goes without saying but you also need to take minimum of 4 weeks off per year. Try to have at least one 2 week vacation.

And when you’re off work enjoy and relax. Recharge. Don’t offer to help and stick your elbows out on that point.

[Anonymous User]

I think part of what made me less dispensable was that I was the only one who knew how the thing worked, because I deliberately never fully trained anyone else on it. I did it for years, until I left the firm.

^^^ A key tactic in the dark arts of office politics

[BrowsingTLS]

I just found out Biden's $10K student loan forgiveness plan won't include people who make more than $150K if single or $300K combiend married.

Now I have to survive 42 more months of biglaw instead of 40. Fuck you Biden. WHY ARE YOU PUNISHING MY SUCCESS?!

[Anonymous User]

I just found out Biden's $10K student loan forgiveness plan won't include people who make more than $150K if single or $300K combiend married.

Now I have to survive 42 more months of biglaw instead of 40. Fuck you Biden. WHY ARE YOU PUNISHING MY SUCCESS?!

Sorry to hear. Wouldn’t worry about. Control what you can control, just do your best

[Anonymous User]

As a married junior I really hope these reports are correct (and there won't be carve outs for grad degrees or something). But also your savings on interest over 2.5 years are likely greater than 10k.

[Anonymous User]

As a married junior I really hope these reports are correct (and there won't be carve outs for grad degrees or something). But also your savings on interest over 2.5 years are likely greater than 10k.

The greatest injustice is that my wife and I made 290k for tax purposes last year and are still going to qualify. The world is not a fair place.

[Anonymous User]

As a married junior I really hope these reports are correct (and there won't be carve outs for grad degrees or something). But also your savings on interest over 2.5 years are likely greater than 10k.

The greatest injustice is that my wife and I made 290k for tax purposes last year and are still going to qualify. The world is not a fair place.

Nothing about this is "fair". It's a terrible policy, a handout to the people who need it least, while perpetuating bad policy all around (tuition and debt will just increase). But I don't really care tbh. More money in my pocket is good.

[Anonymous User]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

[Lacepiece23]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

I’m not in biglaw anymore by choice. Probably would have made partner. But I always tell the associates I mentor, you can’t make senior associate if you burn out by mid-level, you can’t junior partner
if you burn out as a senior associate. And equity is a crapshoot of luck.

Moral of the story, being there for a long time puts you in better position than billing 2500 as a junior. IMO. But I’m not there anymore so what do I know.

[glitched]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

Absolute legend. Are you corporate or litigation? I always used to wonder why partners stick it out longer than X years since they could most likely have retired. But this scenario I could see it work.

[Anonymous User]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

Absolute legend. Are you corporate or litigation? I always used to wonder why partners stick it out longer than X years since they could most likely have retired. But this scenario I could see it work.

Lifestyle creep / golden handcuffs. Sure you can retire and live off 100k a year or whatever, but by then you're used to living off 300k or more. Mortgage payments 8k/month, second home which isn't paid off yet, the boat, the college fund, etc etc

[glitched]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

Absolute legend. Are you corporate or litigation? I always used to wonder why partners stick it out longer than X years since they could most likely have retired. But this scenario I could see it work.

Lifestyle creep / golden handcuffs. Sure you can retire and live off 100k a year or whatever, but by then you're used to living off 300k or more. Mortgage payments 8k/month, second home which isn't paid off yet, the boat, the college fund, etc etc

I really don't think it's that. Many of the partners that stay in it love it. Takes a certain personality.

[nealric]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

Absolute legend. Are you corporate or litigation? I always used to wonder why partners stick it out longer than X years since they could most likely have retired. But this scenario I could see it work.

Lifestyle creep / golden handcuffs. Sure you can retire and live off 100k a year or whatever, but by then you're used to living off 300k or more. Mortgage payments 8k/month, second home which isn't paid off yet, the boat, the college fund, etc etc

I really don't think it's that. Many of the partners that stay in it love it. Takes a certain personality.

Also, you can avoid a lot of the worst things about biglaw if you are a senior partner. Most of the really boring stuff gets farmed out to people below you. You spend a lot more time on the phone giving advice and a lot less time drafting things or marking up documents. You don't have to worry too much about your billable hours if you are bringing in significant business.

But there are certainly some partners that have a level of golden handcuffs. It's not just lifestyle creep but also the fact that they tend to acquire dependents. Their spouse probably had to sacrifice their career, they have children who may be college age (lots of spending), and perhaps aging parents/in-laws who may have significant care expenses and not enough money of their own to afford them. Good luck telling your spouse to send your mother in law to a medicaid nursing home when you are making biglaw bucks even if you were otherwise inclined to do so. Keeping all that up can be hard without hefty cash flow. And once you've been in the game for 20+ years, the options for other things to do can narrow pretty significantly.

[Anonymous User]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

Absolute legend. Are you corporate or litigation? I always used to wonder why partners stick it out longer than X years since they could most likely have retired. But this scenario I could see it work.

Lifestyle creep / golden handcuffs. Sure you can retire and live off 100k a year or whatever, but by then you're used to living off 300k or more. Mortgage payments 8k/month, second home which isn't paid off yet, the boat, the college fund, etc etc

I really don't think it's that. Many of the partners that stay in it love it. Takes a certain personality.

Also, you can avoid a lot of the worst things about biglaw if you are a senior partner. Most of the really boring stuff gets farmed out to people below you. You spend a lot more time on the phone giving advice and a lot less time drafting things or marking up documents. You don't have to worry too much about your billable hours if you are bringing in significant business.

But there are certainly some partners that have a level of golden handcuffs. It's not just lifestyle creep but also the fact that they tend to acquire dependents. Their spouse probably had to sacrifice their career, they have children who may be college age (lots of spending), and perhaps aging parents/in-laws who may have significant care expenses and not enough money of their own to afford them. Good luck telling your spouse to send your mother in law to a medicaid nursing home when you are making biglaw bucks even if you were otherwise inclined to do so. Keeping all that up can be hard without hefty cash flow. And once you've been in the game for 20+ years, the options for other things to do can narrow pretty significantly.

I swore up and down that I would never let this happen to me and that, as a result, if I did happen to make shares (which lol would never happen) I'd be able to retire in 2 or 3 years tops.

Years later, lo and behold, relatively new SP, and yeah, this has happened to me somewhat ><

[Anonymous User]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

I worked in V10 M&A and have a somewhat similar anecdote. I worked with Non-Equity Partner A who killed himself billing (seemingly 2500+ every year) and was a technically brilliant attorney but did not have a naturally warm personality. Non-Equity Partner B completely delegated all the legal grunt work and was not in the weeds at all, but is a quick thinker, is very likeable and is super-responsive to clients.

NEP A was gently pushed out when he became eligible for shares, while NEP B became an equity partner earlier than usual and is a rainmaker at the firm.

[Anonymous User]

This has been mentioned obliquely several times on this thread, but I really can't over-emphasize how important it is to not invest too much in what other people think of you at the firm. It's very hard to make everyone happy all the time and you have to pick and choose. Shit happens and you will make mistakes. Usually, there's no serious consequence and people are able forgive and move on. And even if you truly piss someone off and they hate you, most of these places are factories and that person will probably leave the firm in a few years anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Just remember, you ain't here for a long time, you're here for a . . . bad time.

[Joachim2017]

I've been coasting my whole career in biglaw. I cracked 2k hours as an associate maybe twice (barely), and twice as a non-equity partner. Then they made me an equity partner - v10. My "secret" is that (while not a hard worker), I work quickly and am very good at my job. Both clients and other partners recognize this, and see my value beyond just being a biller of hours. YMMV but I thought I'd share this data point, so you all can see that it's possible to both coast AND make partner. I'm not really bragging either, given that this is anon so what's the point.

I worked in V10 M&A and have a somewhat similar anecdote. I worked with Non-Equity Partner A who killed himself billing (seemingly 2500+ every year) and was a technically brilliant attorney but did not have a naturally warm personality. Non-Equity Partner B completely delegated all the legal grunt work and was not in the weeds at all, but is a quick thinker, is very likeable and is super-responsive to clients.

NEP A was gently pushed out when he became eligible for shares, while NEP B became an equity partner earlier than usual and is a rainmaker at the firm.

Not questioning whether this is true, but it is SUPER reductive and for that reason probably very misleading. I very much doubt someone can JUST be a quick thinker, responsive, and well-liked, and become an EP. There's a ton of luck involving who s/he worked with, deals s/he got staffed on, the timing when up for shares etc. But sure, as an anecdote, ok.