IP Transactions at a v10 or General Corporate at v50? Forum

[Anonymous User]

What about hours at tech companies? Do they generally expect more than the 9-5 you might get at non-tech?

[Anonymous User]

This is just one data point, but going from biglaw senior associate to in-house as products legal counsel, FAANG comp was ~$250k base plus ~$50k cash bonus plus ~$100k in stock. Signing bonus was ~$100k cash (to cover missed biglaw bonus) plus ~$100k stock.

On paper, it sounds like FAANG matches senior associate pay at a firm pretty well, but the reality is different. Cash flow is much lower after stock buy-in and other benefits. Stock also generally had a multi-year vesting period. They give out big stock numbers, knowing they will get a lot of it back when you leave. Stock typically appreciates nicely.

Once you're in, you have to put in YEARS before a promotion or substantial raise happens.

FWIW, software developers at FAANG get way bigger bonuses than lawyers ($200k+ stock signing bonuses, etc.). Lawyers at FAANG are treated more as back office (loss generators) than at a law firm, where lawyers are profit generators. Some people may like that dynamic better, though. Plus the hours are slightly less in house.

Hours are only slightly less in house at a FAANG than biglaw?

Also, regarding promotions, is that common for in house positions to not have consistent upwards mobility? I feel like biglaw is unique in that way and that may not exist in house that often, but i could be wrong.

[Anonymous User]

There’s no question that you should take the IP transactions group, even if it’s just deal support. You can always lateral to a Bay Area-based firm (Cooley, Gunderson, Fenwick, etc.) and actually do commercial work. I used to be in tech trans at a major Bay Area firm and am now in a great in house position. This is all due to the strength of my group/firm.

OP - thanks for this. Am I only going to be able to get a great in-house position if I end up lateraling? Is it bad to "set myself up" to lateral?

Also, do you mind speaking to the general comp and hours of your in house position? Is it at a FAANG?

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

[Anonymous User]

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Sounds like a dream job tbh.

Do the attorneys there all have the same role? Or are there general corporate folks and then data privacy specialists etc? If different roles, is comp the same?

[Anonymous User]

There’s no question that you should take the IP transactions group, even if it’s just deal support. You can always lateral to a Bay Area-based firm (Cooley, Gunderson, Fenwick, etc.) and actually do commercial work. I used to be in tech trans at a major Bay Area firm and am now in a great in house position. This is all due to the strength of my group/firm.

OP - thanks for this. Am I only going to be able to get a great in-house position if I end up lateraling? Is it bad to "set myself up" to lateral?

Also, do you mind speaking to the general comp and hours of your in house position? Is it at a FAANG?

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Is this for commercial/product counsel roles? If so that is pretty awesome and I've got to start applying.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience between patent lit vs. tech trans at a v10? Pros/cons? With an EE background and the patent bar, is working in tech trans throwing that away, or could that be relevant in your career? Current summer deciding between groups

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience between patent lit vs. tech trans at a v10? Pros/cons? With an EE background and the patent bar, is working in tech trans throwing that away, or could that be relevant in your career? Current summer deciding between groups

I've done both. It really comes down if you want to litigate or not. Can message you if you want.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 3L and I summered last summer at a v50 in their corporate group. Didn't mind the work but kind of chose corporate as a default during OCI as I felt it would increase my chances of getting an offer (T14, average grades). I really like that corporate work is broad and has good in-house opportunities.

I just interviewed for an IP Transactions group at a v10 and got the offer and am heavily considering taking it. I have a strong interest in tech work but wasn't sure about a few things:

1. Is this a growing practice area? Is demand for lawyers expected to increase? Decline?

2. Are there robust in-house opportunities for IPT lawyers? Or is this area "too niche" and the opportunities are limited (like Tax)?

3. Going off #2 - How does the compensation for in-house opportunities for Tech Transactions lawyers compare to those of general corporate? What do those opportunities look like?

4. What are hours at an IPT practice at a law firm like? Predictable?

I'm leaning towards taking it because I have a strong interest in Tech and feel I would really enjoy the work but I don't want to screw myself into an extremely niche practice area with no future outside of law firms.

I have to give an answer by the end of the month and I also have to study for the bar so anything to relieve my stress levels right now is greatly appreciated

I'm in tech trans at a v10. Juniors mostly do deal support, and the most junior folks do mostly diligence. This was welcome to me though, because there's a lot to learn and it's helpful to see lots of types of documents before you even think about beginning to draft. In my group, juniors stop doing diligence earlier than they do in, say, m&a. as you get more senior, there are more opportunities for standalone and other commercial transaction work. of course you will still be doing deal support, but the opportunities are there, especially if you ask for it. hours-wise, my hours fluctuate less than my friends in M&A. There's consistently a lot to do, but we have somewhat fewer fire drills than M&A does. yes, we're still subject to their crazy timelines, but often times the IP part of the deal is much smaller. Not always, but it's definitely a more sustainable group.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience between patent lit vs. tech trans at a v10? Pros/cons? With an EE background and the patent bar, is working in tech trans throwing that away, or could that be relevant in your career? Current summer deciding between groups

I will also say that while having an EE background *may* be relevant/useful in patent litigation, it is not *as* relevant as you may expect. As a previous commenter said, it really comes down to whether you want to litigate; patent litigation is firstly litigation and secondly patent-related. On the flip side, an understanding of the technical side of things may come in handy even in tech transactions, such as better understanding of the IP your client holds, being able to communicate more fluently, etc.

(Patent bar is pretty irrelevant to both patent litigation and tech transactions, perhaps other than to signal extra credentials)

[Anonymous User]

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Is this for commercial/product counsel roles? If so that is pretty awesome and I've got to start applying.

Are there other legal roles at FAANGs other than commercial/products counsel? (Serious question)

[Anonymous User]

[Double post. Delete]

[Anonymous User]

I'm in tech trans at a v10. Juniors mostly do deal support, and the most junior folks do mostly diligence. This was welcome to me though, because there's a lot to learn and it's helpful to see lots of types of documents before you even think about beginning to draft. In my group, juniors stop doing diligence earlier than they do in, say, m&a. as you get more senior, there are more opportunities for standalone and other commercial transaction work. of course you will still be doing deal support, but the opportunities are there, especially if you ask for it. hours-wise, my hours fluctuate less than my friends in M&A. There's consistently a lot to do, but we have somewhat fewer fire drills than M&A does. yes, we're still subject to their crazy timelines, but often times the IP part of the deal is much smaller. Not always, but it's definitely a more sustainable group.

Curious to know more about the hours and workflow. Are you staying up all night with M&A folks to finish a deal? Or is your work generally fairly consistent in terms of hours (absent firedrills)? How often do firedrills cause you to stay up until crazy hours?

[Anonymous User]

Not the quoted anon, but also junior in v10 tech transactions. I have never had to stay up all night. Work is also fairly consistent (never billed above 60 hours a week).

[Anonymous User]

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Is this for commercial/product counsel roles? If so that is pretty awesome and I've got to start applying.

Are there other legal roles at FAANGs other than commercial/products counsel? (Serious question)

Yes like Corporate counsel, Privacy counsel, etc. Lot of hiring from Bay Area firms like Cooley, Fenwick, WSGR etc.

[Anonymous User]

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Is this for commercial/product counsel roles? If so that is pretty awesome and I've got to start applying.

Are there other legal roles at FAANGs other than commercial/products counsel? (Serious question)

Yes like Corporate counsel, Privacy counsel, etc. Lot of hiring from Bay Area firms like Cooley, Fenwick, WSGR etc.

Do the in house salaries differ by title/job description? Or counsel is counsel and all paid the same?

[Anonymous User]

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Is this for commercial/product counsel roles? If so that is pretty awesome and I've got to start applying.

Are there other legal roles at FAANGs other than commercial/products counsel? (Serious question)

Yes like Corporate counsel, Privacy counsel, etc. Lot of hiring from Bay Area firms like Cooley, Fenwick, WSGR etc.

Do the in house salaries differ by title/job description? Or counsel is counsel and all paid the same?

No, it definitely varies.

[Anonymous User]

At FAANG. Comp is mid to high $300s all in. Mostly 9-5. Looking around at my colleagues, I’d say that the easiest way to get this position is to do tech trans at a major Bay Area tech firm.

Is this for commercial/product counsel roles? If so that is pretty awesome and I've got to start applying.

Are there other legal roles at FAANGs other than commercial/products counsel? (Serious question)

Yes like Corporate counsel, Privacy counsel, etc. Lot of hiring from Bay Area firms like Cooley, Fenwick, WSGR etc.

Do the in house salaries differ by title/job description? Or counsel is counsel and all paid the same?

No, it definitely varies.

Based on job description or based on seniority (or both)?

[The Lsat Airbender]

Based on job description or based on seniority (or both)?

Shit just varies. It's not like a firm or the government. Big companies set guidelines and limits, etc., but at the end of the day people and employers negotiate compensation in a Smithian market, and that variability increases as you get higher up on the org chart.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in tech trans at a v10. Juniors mostly do deal support, and the most junior folks do mostly diligence. This was welcome to me though, because there's a lot to learn and it's helpful to see lots of types of documents before you even think about beginning to draft. In my group, juniors stop doing diligence earlier than they do in, say, m&a. as you get more senior, there are more opportunities for standalone and other commercial transaction work. of course you will still be doing deal support, but the opportunities are there, especially if you ask for it. hours-wise, my hours fluctuate less than my friends in M&A. There's consistently a lot to do, but we have somewhat fewer fire drills than M&A does. yes, we're still subject to their crazy timelines, but often times the IP part of the deal is much smaller. Not always, but it's definitely a more sustainable group.

Curious to know more about the hours and workflow. Are you staying up all night with M&A folks to finish a deal? Or is your work generally fairly consistent in terms of hours (absent firedrills)? How often do firedrills cause you to stay up until crazy hours?

Generally not staying up all night with M&A. In a lot of the deals we're involved in, IP doesn't play *that* significant of a part. In certain deals that are very IP-heavy, we'll be negotiating and/or drafting ancillary documents and/or standalone licenses, etc. That's when we may be burning the midnight oil and when the fire drills come in - but this isn't every deal we are involved in. For the most part, the late nights happen like they do for everyone else in biglaw -- because you don't get a response/comments from the partner until late, because other work piled up and you didn't get to it until then, because the client/M&A suddenly decided they wanted something quickly. I would say fire drills/late nights are the exception and not the rule, but I wouldn't say that we're not busy and that we're not working nights/weekends if that makes sense.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in tech trans at a v10. Juniors mostly do deal support, and the most junior folks do mostly diligence. This was welcome to me though, because there's a lot to learn and it's helpful to see lots of types of documents before you even think about beginning to draft. In my group, juniors stop doing diligence earlier than they do in, say, m&a. as you get more senior, there are more opportunities for standalone and other commercial transaction work. of course you will still be doing deal support, but the opportunities are there, especially if you ask for it. hours-wise, my hours fluctuate less than my friends in M&A. There's consistently a lot to do, but we have somewhat fewer fire drills than M&A does. yes, we're still subject to their crazy timelines, but often times the IP part of the deal is much smaller. Not always, but it's definitely a more sustainable group.

Curious to know more about the hours and workflow. Are you staying up all night with M&A folks to finish a deal? Or is your work generally fairly consistent in terms of hours (absent firedrills)? How often do firedrills cause you to stay up until crazy hours?

Generally not staying up all night with M&A. In a lot of the deals we're involved in, IP doesn't play *that* significant of a part. In certain deals that are very IP-heavy, we'll be negotiating and/or drafting ancillary documents and/or standalone licenses, etc. That's when we may be burning the midnight oil and when the fire drills come in - but this isn't every deal we are involved in. For the most part, the late nights happen like they do for everyone else in biglaw -- because you don't get a response/comments from the partner until late, because other work piled up and you didn't get to it until then, because the client/M&A suddenly decided they wanted something quickly. I would say fire drills/late nights are the exception and not the rule, but I wouldn't say that we're not busy and that we're not working nights/weekends if that makes sense.

Same anon. I would also say that I'm consistently busy during the day from, say, 9-7. On any given day, 3-7 deals may be active and I'm constantly on calls and doing other smaller/larger tasks for a variety of deals. I also manage my time well, and probably better than others in my group who are working late and on weekends. I prefer to work late during the week if I have a general sense that something may be due soon and always try to anticipate deadlines before they are announced (for example, sometimes we'll get a general heads up that the client may be scheduling a diligence call the following week, which to me means that I should finish diligence and get started on the report the week before, so that it doesn't turn into a weekend fire drill if the call suddenly gets scheduled for the following Monday.) When we have so many small tasks with short timelines, it can be hard to get to the tasks with longer/no timeframes, but I try my best to get to everything within a few days of receiving it.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in tech trans at a v10. Juniors mostly do deal support, and the most junior folks do mostly diligence. This was welcome to me though, because there's a lot to learn and it's helpful to see lots of types of documents before you even think about beginning to draft. In my group, juniors stop doing diligence earlier than they do in, say, m&a. as you get more senior, there are more opportunities for standalone and other commercial transaction work. of course you will still be doing deal support, but the opportunities are there, especially if you ask for it. hours-wise, my hours fluctuate less than my friends in M&A. There's consistently a lot to do, but we have somewhat fewer fire drills than M&A does. yes, we're still subject to their crazy timelines, but often times the IP part of the deal is much smaller. Not always, but it's definitely a more sustainable group.

Curious to know more about the hours and workflow. Are you staying up all night with M&A folks to finish a deal? Or is your work generally fairly consistent in terms of hours (absent firedrills)? How often do firedrills cause you to stay up until crazy hours?

Generally not staying up all night with M&A. In a lot of the deals we're involved in, IP doesn't play *that* significant of a part. In certain deals that are very IP-heavy, we'll be negotiating and/or drafting ancillary documents and/or standalone licenses, etc. That's when we may be burning the midnight oil and when the fire drills come in - but this isn't every deal we are involved in. For the most part, the late nights happen like they do for everyone else in biglaw -- because you don't get a response/comments from the partner until late, because other work piled up and you didn't get to it until then, because the client/M&A suddenly decided they wanted something quickly. I would say fire drills/late nights are the exception and not the rule, but I wouldn't say that we're not busy and that we're not working nights/weekends if that makes sense.

Thanks for the insight. When you're working over the weekends are you canceling plans/working the entire weekend, or is it more of a "let me finish this project" for a couple hours and then on with your plans?

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone in a SV firm (Cooley, Gunderson, etc.) speak to their day-to-day? Are the Tech Transactions groups at these firms essentially just M&A but focused on Tech?