2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Normal for some of the associates/partners to seem like they don't care that you're there?

How are they supposed to demonstrate that they care?

By showing interest in how things are going, stopping by to say hi, offering to be there if you have any questions, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Normal for some of the associates/partners to seem like they don't care that you're there?

How are they supposed to demonstrate that they care?

By showing interest in how things are going, stopping by to say hi, offering to be there if you have any questions, etc.

if you want to check in with people go show some initiative, this isn’t a literal daycare

[Anonymous User]

Normal for some of the associates/partners to seem like they don't care that you're there?

How are they supposed to demonstrate that they care?

By showing interest in how things are going, stopping by to say hi, offering to be there if you have any questions, etc.

if you want to check in with people go show some initiative, this isn’t a literal daycare

This summer is in for a rude awakening post-law school. Sure, there are some truly humanitarian partners/associates who take it upon themselves to be a "work mom/dad" for all the new associates and summers. But those are few and far between. I think even less so after the pandemic, where we're still trying to remember what it means to work "in the office" with our "colleagues." And most of the ones I have met have ulterior motives: I don't question that they are nice/friendly, but they also want you to want to work for them when staffing is short.

Mentoring relationships like what you seem to be seeking are not a one-way street. They are mutual and built on trust and shared experiences. They don't just apparate out of thin air because you want someone to "stop by."

[Anonymous User]

Normal for some of the associates/partners to seem like they don't care that you're there?

How are they supposed to demonstrate that they care?

By showing interest in how things are going, stopping by to say hi, offering to be there if you have any questions, etc.

A lot of people are way too busy for that. Judge people on how they act when they have a reason to interact with you (like when you’re doing work for them), not on whether they stop by etc. in a vacuum.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a junior associate and I try to go say hi to the summers. They are always happy to see me and we chat about how things are going etc. But that just gobbled up 0.6 of my time and meanwhile I got 16 emails that I need to respond to yesterday. So if ppl aren't saying hi it's just that they are busy with actual work.

[Anonymous User]

Mentoring relationships like what you seem to be seeking are not a one-way street. They are mutual and built on trust and shared experiences. They don't just apparate out of thin air because you want someone to "stop by."

Obviously. But failing to ever make any basic effort to say hi or act friendly I think says something about how you are generally. This doesn't seem to be common but there are a few who seem to act that way. As the junior associate above said, just stopping by and saying hi is a nice gesture and shows you're someone who's good to work with and supportive. That takes about 20-30 seconds.

[LBJ's Hair]

Mentoring relationships like what you seem to be seeking are not a one-way street. They are mutual and built on trust and shared experiences. They don't just apparate out of thin air because you want someone to "stop by."

Obviously. But failing to ever make any basic effort to say hi or act friendly I think says something about how you are generally. This doesn't seem to be common but there are a few who seem to act that way. As the junior associate above said, just stopping by and saying hi is a nice gesture and shows you're someone who's good to work with and supportive. That takes about 20-30 seconds.

Look, this like dating - if you're interested in getting to know someone, you need to be proactive. Doing nothing and being resentful that other people aren't taking the first step (a) isn't going to get you what you want (becoming plugged into the group), and (b) is just like, fundamentally, self-centered and misanthropic.

What does Gen Z call it? "Main Character Syndrome"?

You're a summer. You have nothing but time. If you want to get to know people, take the initiative and go do it.

Don't passively wait for someone to come chat you up and then complain that everyone is ignoring you.

The reason people aren't stopping by your office to say hi while you text your friends and watch YouTube and whatever is because they have a bunch of shit to do and you're a total stranger.

[Anonymous User]

So far this summer I've done a lot of research. Happy to do it, but I'm curious to explore other areas in litigation.

• What kinds of assignments/opportunities should I ask for?
• What interesting things have you done this summer?

[Anonymous User]

So far this summer I've done a lot of research. Happy to do it, but I'm curious to explore other areas in litigation.

• What kinds of assignments/opportunities should I ask for?
• What interesting things have you done this summer?

I figured legal research and writing probably constitutes a large percentage of a junior associate’s job. Maybe you could ask to join some client meetings and observe any depos/court proceedings if there is any?

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Mentoring relationships like what you seem to be seeking are not a one-way street. They are mutual and built on trust and shared experiences. They don't just apparate out of thin air because you want someone to "stop by."

Obviously. But failing to ever make any basic effort to say hi or act friendly I think says something about how you are generally. This doesn't seem to be common but there are a few who seem to act that way. As the junior associate above said, just stopping by and saying hi is a nice gesture and shows you're someone who's good to work with and supportive. That takes about 20-30 seconds.

Biglaw attracts a lot of awkward, not particularly friendly people. You're right, the more senior people should be the ones breaking the ice with summers, not the other way around, but it rarely works that way in biglaw. Temper your expectations now.

And then the reality of the billable hour doesn't help. Josh the 6th year may have a baby and a mortgage -- and if he spends too much time hanging out and not enough time billing hours, he could lose everything.

[Anonymous User]

So far this summer I've done a lot of research. Happy to do it, but I'm curious to explore other areas in litigation.

• What kinds of assignments/opportunities should I ask for?
• What interesting things have you done this summer?

I figured legal research and writing probably constitutes a large percentage of a junior associate’s job. Maybe you could ask to join some client meetings and observe any depos/court proceedings if there is any?

Not really. But it is the only bitesize chunk you can cut off and trust to a summer. Other things that associates do are either too boring/tedious (doc review, drafting discovery responses), too large (e.g., expert reports), too time sensitive (brief-writing), or too important/complex (anything client facing or case dispositive, depo/trial outlines) to give to a summer. It takes a lot to learn enough facts/law to be useful on a case, and you don't have the time or skills to do that as a summer (that's by design, not a criticism).

From what I have seen, some summers will get to draft a complaint (if there's lots of time for the team to review/revise) or part of a brief/motion (if it's not a huge issue or if there's a long runway), but these assignments are often rarer. That said, it doesn't hurt to tell whomever coordinates your workload that you're interested in a different type of opportunity if one shows up. It doesn't mean you'll get it, but if something cool comes in the coordinator may remember you asked for something like that.

+1 re: observing client calls and depos/court proceedings, but most junior associates don't do a lot of that. If you really want to see what life will be like, ask to join a litigation team that has weekly meetings you can join. You'll get a glimpse into what associates do, and you may be more likely to get an interesting assignment if you're around when work is being dolled out. Just don't volunteer for something on a team call unless it's abundantly clear that a summer could do it - you don't want to put the team in an awkward position having to say it's not right for you.

One additional perspective - generally the more interesting the assignment, the more opportunity you have to screw it up. Not saying all summers put out poor quality work, but the benefit of sticking to research memos is that it's pretty easy to do it right. Don't get me wrong - you're not going to get no-offered for sending in mediocre work product. But a partner/senior may remember when you return to the firm. It's safer to knock easy/boring assignments out of the park.

[Anonymous User]

Normal for some of the associates/partners to seem like they don't care that you're there?

It's normal but don't let that bother you. Use it as an opportunity. 80% of lawyers (and people in brain-heavy professions) are not going to make the first move as a summer or as an associate or even a partner. Make it your mission to be part of the 20% who find the time to start and build a broad set of relationships.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize ahead of time for what may be the most inconsequential and dumbest question here, but when a summer associate event has a +1 for partners or friends what does this mean. I was confused what they meant by friends as I always assumed this was for girlfriends/boyfriends or wives/husbands but I asked recruiting and they told me essentially that the "friend" bit was up to my interpretation. This is a fairly progressive firm, so I am now wondering if the friend language is just to capture new age relationships and is just a product of boomer partners misunderstanding wokeness. I don't have a girlfriend but I do have a good friend I think would be fun to bring, and I was wondering if this would be a bad idea. This has all been confounded by the fact that I have met "friends" of SAs at firm events but said "friends" were always of the opposite sex. I readily admit I'm an idiot, but was wondering if anyone could clear this up.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize ahead of time for what may be the most inconsequential and dumbest question here, but when a summer associate event has a +1 for partners or friends what does this mean. I was confused what they meant by friends as I always assumed this was for girlfriends/boyfriends or wives/husbands but I asked recruiting and they told me essentially that the "friend" bit was up to my interpretation. This is a fairly progressive firm, so I am now wondering if the friend language is just to capture new age relationships and is just a product of boomer partners misunderstanding wokeness. I don't have a girlfriend but I do have a good friend I think would be fun to bring, and I was wondering if this would be a bad idea. This has all been confounded by the fact that I have met "friends" of SAs at firm events but said "friends" were always of the opposite sex. I readily admit I'm an idiot, but was wondering if anyone could clear this up.

Recruiting is going to tell you that because they don't want to risk telling someone who is maybe in the closet no. But common sense says a plus one is a SO or at least a date. So don't just show up with a random roommate.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize ahead of time for what may be the most inconsequential and dumbest question here, but when a summer associate event has a +1 for partners or friends what does this mean. I was confused what they meant by friends as I always assumed this was for girlfriends/boyfriends or wives/husbands but I asked recruiting and they told me essentially that the "friend" bit was up to my interpretation. This is a fairly progressive firm, so I am now wondering if the friend language is just to capture new age relationships and is just a product of boomer partners misunderstanding wokeness. I don't have a girlfriend but I do have a good friend I think would be fun to bring, and I was wondering if this would be a bad idea. This has all been confounded by the fact that I have met "friends" of SAs at firm events but said "friends" were always of the opposite sex. I readily admit I'm an idiot, but was wondering if anyone could clear this up.

Recruiting is going to tell you that because they don't want to risk telling someone who is maybe in the closet no. But common sense says a plus one is a SO or at least a date. So don't just show up with a random roommate.

+1 on that (pun intended). Also, keep in mind that for better or for worse, whomever you decide to bring (if you do) will reflect on you.

At my firm (which is politically progressive but reserved otherwise), there's an unstated understanding that +1 events are for serious relationships only. People bring their husbands/wives/fiancés and MAYBE long term partners, but definitely not their passing flings or new relationships. I think of it like introducing someone to my parents - if they are important enough to introduce to the firm, my colleagues expect that person to be a fixed feature in my life. People will follow up with questions about that person down the line, and last thing I want to have to do is talk to a partner about my recent breakup.

If I were you, rather than ask TLS, I would go ask another summer (or, if you prefer, an associate) to see what they plan to do. I presume you're single from your post, so it's probably best to see what other single people are doing and follow suit. If everyone is bringing a friend, then feel free to do the same. But there's no reason to rock the boat just to have a fun friend come along to one event (or spend the night explaining that your +1 is just a friend, and not something more).

[Anonymous User]

I apologize ahead of time for what may be the most inconsequential and dumbest question here, but when a summer associate event has a +1 for partners or friends what does this mean. I was confused what they meant by friends as I always assumed this was for girlfriends/boyfriends or wives/husbands but I asked recruiting and they told me essentially that the "friend" bit was up to my interpretation. This is a fairly progressive firm, so I am now wondering if the friend language is just to capture new age relationships and is just a product of boomer partners misunderstanding wokeness. I don't have a girlfriend but I do have a good friend I think would be fun to bring, and I was wondering if this would be a bad idea. This has all been confounded by the fact that I have met "friends" of SAs at firm events but said "friends" were always of the opposite sex. I readily admit I'm an idiot, but was wondering if anyone could clear this up.

Recruiting is going to tell you that because they don't want to risk telling someone who is maybe in the closet no. But common sense says a plus one is a SO or at least a date. So don't just show up with a random roommate.

The closet thing makes sense and also explains why they were coy. Thanks, will not bring the friend.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize ahead of time for what may be the most inconsequential and dumbest question here, but when a summer associate event has a +1 for partners or friends what does this mean. I was confused what they meant by friends as I always assumed this was for girlfriends/boyfriends or wives/husbands but I asked recruiting and they told me essentially that the "friend" bit was up to my interpretation. This is a fairly progressive firm, so I am now wondering if the friend language is just to capture new age relationships and is just a product of boomer partners misunderstanding wokeness. I don't have a girlfriend but I do have a good friend I think would be fun to bring, and I was wondering if this would be a bad idea. This has all been confounded by the fact that I have met "friends" of SAs at firm events but said "friends" were always of the opposite sex. I readily admit I'm an idiot, but was wondering if anyone could clear this up.

For what it's worth, to provide a counterpoint to the last two posts... At my firm, several people have brought simple friends to +1 events.

I agree with the previous poster that I would make discrete inquiries as to other summers' practice.

[jsnow212]

Do not bring your friend. It's that simple.

[LBJ's Hair]

when someone gives you a +1 to their wedding, they're not offering to pay for dinner for your old college roommate.

same thing for firm events. idea is 'we want to include husbands/wives/etc' - not 'we're throwing a party and literally anyone can show up'

[Anonymous User]

when someone gives you a +1 to their wedding, they're not offering to pay for dinner for your old college roommate.

same thing for firm events. idea is 'we want to include husbands/wives/etc' - not 'we're throwing a party and literally anyone can show up'

Generally, yes. I think it's possible a firm would (misguidedly) think otherwise, but that's the exception and not the rule and I wouldn't bring someone random unless I was 1000% sure the firm actually wanted to meet my college bro.

More important question is if the firm truly wants you to bring a friend along (highly unlikely), why the hell would you want to work there anyway? I like my personal life as separate from work as possible.

[Anonymous User]

anyone else feel they don't fit in with the other summers in their practice area? i'm at k&e chicago in the restructuring group and there's 25-30 of us, not sure if it's because i'm not from the midwest but i just don't feel like i fit in. every time i go to a dinner or lunch i just feel out of place.

edit: nearly all of the summers and associates are kind and very approachable, so i don't want anyone to read this like i'm talking smack about the people! i simply feel like i don't fit in. can't blame it on a frat culture because most of the summers and attorneys aren't fratty, not sure what it is.

i'm worried because everybody at the firm, both in restructuring and in other practice groups, has said that the restructuring group has a reputation for being seriously close-knit and i'm worried that if i feel out of place over the summer, i'll feel out of place when i work here.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

anyone else feel they don't fit in with the other summers in their practice area? i'm at k&e chicago in the restructuring group and there's 25-30 of us, not sure if it's because i'm not from the midwest but i just don't feel like i fit in. every time i go to a dinner or lunch i just feel out of place.

edit: nearly all of the summers and associates are kind and very approachable, so i don't want anyone to read this like i'm talking smack about the people! i simply feel like i don't fit in. can't blame it on a frat culture because most of the summers and attorneys aren't fratty, not sure what it is.

i'm worried because everybody at the firm, both in restructuring and in other practice groups, has said that the restructuring group has a reputation for being seriously close-knit and i'm worried that if i feel out of place over the summer, i'll feel out of place when i work here.

Move to NYC it’s a much less regional vibe

[Anonymous User]

How do I do screeners/callbacks at other firms if they're all during the workweek? I am summering at a firm (1L) and am going to be interviewing with other firms in the next week or two. Ideally I wouldn't want to tell my current firm, I feel like it would be awkward.

[Anonymous User]

How do I do screeners/callbacks at other firms if they're all during the workweek? I am summering at a firm (1L) and am going to be interviewing with other firms in the next week or two. Ideally I wouldn't want to tell my current firm, I feel like it would be awkward.

I don't think you're under any obligation to tell a firm that you're interviewing elsewhere but I would be very careful about not lying or making up an excuse to take some time off. The legal community is small. Especially if you're interviewing with another firm in the same city.

The best advice I have is to first consider how flexible your firm is. For example, at K&E (at least in the Chicago office), a lot of the summers have flexibility in how they reach their required number of hours per day. You can leave the office for a couple of hours and come back and work later. If that's not an option, I would advise maybe speaking to a designated mentor or an associate you really trust at the firm and see what they recommend.

[Anonymous User]

How do I do screeners/callbacks at other firms if they're all during the workweek? I am summering at a firm (1L) and am going to be interviewing with other firms in the next week or two. Ideally I wouldn't want to tell my current firm, I feel like it would be awkward.

I don't think you're under any obligation to tell a firm that you're interviewing elsewhere but I would be very careful about not lying or making up an excuse to take some time off. The legal community is small. Especially if you're interviewing with another firm in the same city.

The best advice I have is to first consider how flexible your firm is. For example, at K&E (at least in the Chicago office), a lot of the summers have flexibility in how they reach their required number of hours per day. You can leave the office for a couple of hours and come back and work later. If that's not an option, I would advise maybe speaking to a designated mentor or an associate you really trust at the firm and see what they recommend.

FWIW, I was in this situation 1L and just told HR point blank that I would like to take 2 days off to interview elsewhere. I was polite about it, but was sure to mention that with no offer in hand for 2L I need to explore my options. They know you're going to interview elsewhere so there's no point to hiding it. Note that I did not go spreading that around to all of the lawyers. I was honest if someone asked where I was, but there's no need to tell more people than you have to. I ended up getting an offer from my 1L firm, but never returned.