2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here) Forum

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Right2BearArms

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Right2BearArms » Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:45 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:06 pm
What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.
I'm just trying to figure out what SA-appropriate task is the type of thing that might need to be done at 10PM.
There isnt one. First year is either being a dick or an insufferable try-hard (distinction without a difference in this case).

I would tell a member of the recruiting staff or recruiting committee, and just say "no" in the meantime. I remember being actively told to leave the office to make an SA event the night before an IPO closing when I was a summer, I know both associates on the deal did not sleep that night, but they would not let me stay to help. That is how it is supposed to be for summers. Period.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:22 pm

Right2BearArms wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:04 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:18 pm
One SA made a proposal that all SAs chip in some money to buy a thank-you gift ($500 value) to a partner who hosted an event for us. How is this viewed in the firm? Common practice?
Yeah... no...

Idk how the firm would view it, but dont spend your money on buying someone who makes several multiples of your salary a business related gift, ever.

Said partner probably got their home professionally cleaned before and after the event at a minimum in additional to whatever goodwill they got from the office for hosting. The summers didnt ask them to host, and they have no obligation to do more than to not break anything and say "thank you, you have a lovely home" to the host and their spouse/SO when leaving IMO.
Yeah this. Just send a nice note if you're compelled to do something.

If it makes you feel better, there's a partner that buys me and some of the other associates holiday gifts every year. Nobody ever gives that partner anything back aside from baked goods, a holiday card, or a thank you note. There are significant wealth/income disparities in law firms, and many of the social norms/customs like gift giving, paying for food/drinks, etc. are built around those. It goes full circle: I buy my assistant $150+ gifts for the holidays and for her birthday. She makes me baked goods and sends me cards. When I take more junior associates out for coffee I pay without question, just like senior associates did for me. The list goes on, get used to it.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm

Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by gregfootball2001 » Mon Jun 06, 2022 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:16 pm
So I'm a 1L SA at a NYC V100 and I've been trying to RSVP to receptions being given by other firms, but my firm has also scheduled frequent social events after work hours that they insist are mandatory, and they seems to always conflict with the other firms' receptions. Is it bad form to skip some of my firm's "mandatory" events, and if I do will they get suspicious that I'm being "disloyal" or whatever?
You have a firm paying you huge amounts of money to do essentially nothing. The least you can do is go to their parties and eat their free food. Network with other firms another time.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:57 pm

Anon who posted about the SA working holiday weekends/nights here, it's gotten worse since I posted but any more details will make it super easy for anyone who knows about the situation to identify. I'll try and figure out how to out the firm eventually it's ridiculous.

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BrowsingTLS

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by BrowsingTLS » Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:57 pm
Anon who posted about the SA working holiday weekends/nights here, it's gotten worse since I posted but any more details will make it super easy for anyone who knows about the situation to identify. I'll try and figure out how to out the firm eventually it's ridiculous.
Rest assured there's nothing in the post you just made or your earlier one that makes you identifiable.

Earlier post -
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:06 pm
What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.
Literally any firm can have an asshole first year who forces a summer to work nights, weekends, and holidays. There's nothing unique about that factual possibility. What is unique is that it is actually happening. It sucks that it has gotten worse but you have to say no. And you have to believe all the associates ITT telling you that nothing bad will come of you stopping an end to an abusive practice that recruiting teams would not accept happening to their summers.

Just stop replying to his emails or reply the next day, during normal work hours for a summer. He has zero power over you getting an offer. The only power he has is what you give him.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:45 pm

BrowsingTLS wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:57 pm
Anon who posted about the SA working holiday weekends/nights here, it's gotten worse since I posted but any more details will make it super easy for anyone who knows about the situation to identify. I'll try and figure out how to out the firm eventually it's ridiculous.
Rest assured there's nothing in the post you just made or your earlier one that makes you identifiable.

Earlier post -
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 12:06 pm
What would be the consequences for a summer telling a first year associate "no" when they keep asking them to do very not urgent work late at night (10PM+) or to cancel (holiday) weekend plans to work, asking for a friend who really isn't me. Or asking recruiting to not work with that associate who is also a dick beyond the working demands.
Literally any firm can have an asshole first year who forces a summer to work nights, weekends, and holidays. There's nothing unique about that factual possibility. What is unique is that it is actually happening. It sucks that it has gotten worse but you have to say no. And you have to believe all the associates ITT telling you that nothing bad will come of you stopping an end to an abusive practice that recruiting teams would not accept happening to their summers.

Just stop replying to his emails or reply the next day, during normal work hours for a summer. He has zero power over you getting an offer. The only power he has is what you give him.
Anon you replied to here, it's honestly a friend not me. My summer is great so far. I'd be much more cavalier with identifying details if it was me, but don't want to take risks for them.

Have conveyed all the advice in the thread fwiw

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:18 pm
One SA made a proposal that all SAs chip in some money to buy a thank-you gift ($500 value) to a partner who hosted an event for us. How is this viewed in the firm? Common practice?
No, and kind of lacking in common sense imo. The only time an associate should ever be buying a partner a gift is if it’s a sentimental gift for a close mentor. Throwing the summer event is an investment the partner is making for the days when you’re all billing and the partnership is taking home most of your collected billables.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:45 pm

Anon you replied to here, it's honestly a friend not me. My summer is great so far. I'd be much more cavalier with identifying details if it was me, but don't want to take risks for them.

Have conveyed all the advice in the thread fwiw
Just chiming in one last time. You should tell your friend to talk to recruiting ASAP. As others have said, there will be absolutely no consequences from a recruiting perspective, so there's no reason to delay. If your friend is worried about what the associate will think (not like it matters), your friend should just voice that concern to recruiting. Recruiting can hide the self-report and just say they saw your friend's hours (e.g., on a weekend) or green bubble on late at night. Your friend can even tell the associate "look, recruiting talked to me and while I'm always happy to pitch in they told me under no circumstances am I to take assignments that involve night/weekend work." I'm sure this feels like a big deal for your friend, but taking care of it will not be.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:23 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:45 pm

Anon you replied to here, it's honestly a friend not me. My summer is great so far. I'd be much more cavalier with identifying details if it was me, but don't want to take risks for them.

Have conveyed all the advice in the thread fwiw
Just chiming in one last time. You should tell your friend to talk to recruiting ASAP. As others have said, there will be absolutely no consequences from a recruiting perspective, so there's no reason to delay. If your friend is worried about what the associate will think (not like it matters), your friend should just voice that concern to recruiting. Recruiting can hide the self-report and just say they saw your friend's hours (e.g., on a weekend) or green bubble on late at night. Your friend can even tell the associate "look, recruiting talked to me and while I'm always happy to pitch in they told me under no circumstances am I to take assignments that involve night/weekend work." I'm sure this feels like a big deal for your friend, but taking care of it will not be.
I truly would not expect a summer to respond to any emails after 4:59:59 PM.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by dyemond » Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?
assuming you’re a SA and not some student trying to network, no issue at all, it’s good stuff

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:32 pm

Any other SA ready for the summer to be over? I'm envious of the covid summers that got the full $$$$ for doing nothing. I'm tired of free meals and pretending to be excited to talk to associates every damn minute of every damn weekday.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:32 pm
tired of free meals
A+ trolling

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by LBJ's Hair » Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:32 pm
Any other SA ready for the summer to be over? I'm envious of the covid summers that got the full $$$$ for doing nothing. I'm tired of free meals and pretending to be excited to talk to associates every damn minute of every damn weekday.
"Summer Associate" is quite literally the easiest and most enjoyable job you will ever have in your professional career. you are being paid over $200K pro-rated to get drunk and socialize with your peers and/or people who have to [pretend to] like you

you have money, free time, and no responsibility

by contrast, it is currently 12:23 a.m. ET on a Friday and I am going to bill 20+ hours this weekend.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by becodalapa » Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:32 pm
Any other SA ready for the summer to be over? I'm envious of the covid summers that got the full $$$$ for doing nothing. I'm tired of free meals and pretending to be excited to talk to associates every damn minute of every damn weekday.
You poor thing.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:10 pm

Is it ok for a female SA to wear an a-line dress (at about the knees) to office everyday? Firm has no dress code (except for court and client meetings).

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:10 pm
Is it ok for a female SA to wear an a-line dress (at about the knees) to office everyday? Firm has no dress code (except for court and client meetings).

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:10 pm
Is it ok for a female SA to wear an a-line dress (at about the knees) to office everyday? Firm has no dress code (except for court and client meetings).
A-line doesn’t say much. It depends on your office and the dress. Personally I think things like fabric and color matter more than the shape - I wouldn’t wear like a t-shirt cotton knit dress, but something in a little more formal fabric, probably. But again, it depends on what people wear in your office.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?
Different person, but any thoughts? Especially for those of us working in smaller/satellite office with smaller classes.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:03 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?
Different person, but any thoughts? Especially for those of us working in smaller/satellite office with smaller classes.
not at all. they get a free lunch out of it and they can just say they're busy if uninterested (or actually busy).

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by temp69420 » Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:03 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?
Different person, but any thoughts? Especially for those of us working in smaller/satellite office with smaller classes.
not at all. they get a free lunch out of it and they can just say they're busy if uninterested (or actually busy).
If you're worried about wasting their time, you can also offer to go somewhere easy. E.g. "Hi X, If you have any availability, it would be great to have lunch sometime." They say "Sure, how about Thursday." You say, "Perfect. Obviously happy to go wherever you you prefer, but we definitely don't need to do the usual extended summer lunch thing -- just a sandwich would also be great." (Probably you don't need this advice, but I'm pretty autistic, so I'm just thinking of what would have helped me...)

That said, to the person above asking about lunch after coffee, personally I probably wouldn't push it too much. You'll run out of stuff to talk about eventually. And they feel like they should be talking to you a bit, but not all the time, probably.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:44 am

temp69420 wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:03 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?
Different person, but any thoughts? Especially for those of us working in smaller/satellite office with smaller classes.
not at all. they get a free lunch out of it and they can just say they're busy if uninterested (or actually busy).
If you're worried about wasting their time, you can also offer to go somewhere easy. E.g. "Hi X, If you have any availability, it would be great to have lunch sometime." They say "Sure, how about Thursday." You say, "Perfect. Obviously happy to go wherever you you prefer, but we definitely don't need to do the usual extended summer lunch thing -- just a sandwich would also be great." (Probably you don't need this advice, but I'm pretty autistic, so I'm just thinking of what would have helped me...)

That said, to the person above asking about lunch after coffee, personally I probably wouldn't push it too much. You'll run out of stuff to talk about eventually. And they feel like they should be talking to you a bit, but not all the time, probably.
I take the opposite view tbh, and I'm fairly introverted. Unless a summer is a complete tool I really value the opportunity to talk to them candidly about practice, and that only gets easier the more you get to know each other. Being able to mentor people in that way is one of the most rewarding parts about the job imo.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:10 am

SA at a v100 in a secondary market.

Associates in our office have been telling us not to worry about getting offers, and I appreciate that, but I'm wondering how far that goes. There are 2 other summers in my office, and they seem to be taking this idea and running with it: they're arriving late and leaving early without telling anyone; they're telling associates that they want particular summer events when no one is asking, and when our summer events have already been planned and organized in advance; they're turning down assignments when they're asked, even when they have 0 or 1 active assignments; they're saying that they're going to take days off regardless of what anyone at the firm says; and they aren't posting their relatively few assignments to our internal system (and we've been repeatedly instructed to do this).

The other SAs have started talking to me about how I'm doing too much, they're constantly reminding me that I don't need to worry about getting an offer, and now they're telling me that they're uncomfortable because I'm not arriving late/leaving early with them. I'm not gunning--I haven't asked for work at all, but I've been completing the assignments that are given to me, entering them in our internal system, and showing up/leaving on time.

I understand that we're all likely to get offers, but I do intend to work here after I graduate, and I don't want to be known as someone that is unreliable. At the same time, I don't want to alienate the other summers by acting differently. So far, I've just been keeping my head down and doing my thing, but should I change course at all? Am I overly concerned?

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 9:10 am
SA at a v100 in a secondary market.

Associates in our office have been telling us not to worry about getting offers, and I appreciate that, but I'm wondering how far that goes. There are 2 other summers in my office, and they seem to be taking this idea and running with it: they're arriving late and leaving early without telling anyone; they're telling associates that they want particular summer events when no one is asking, and when our summer events have already been planned and organized in advance; they're turning down assignments when they're asked, even when they have 0 or 1 active assignments; they're saying that they're going to take days off regardless of what anyone at the firm says; and they aren't posting their relatively few assignments to our internal system (and we've been repeatedly instructed to do this).

The other SAs have started talking to me about how I'm doing too much, they're constantly reminding me that I don't need to worry about getting an offer, and now they're telling me that they're uncomfortable because I'm not arriving late/leaving early with them. I'm not gunning--I haven't asked for work at all, but I've been completing the assignments that are given to me, entering them in our internal system, and showing up/leaving on time.

I understand that we're all likely to get offers, but I do intend to work here after I graduate, and I don't want to be known as someone that is unreliable. At the same time, I don't want to alienate the other summers by acting differently. So far, I've just been keeping my head down and doing my thing, but should I change course at all? Am I overly concerned?
What entitled brats. Sure, you don't need to do much as a summer, but this is taking it to an extreme. I think you're right that they will get offers, but it doesn't bode well for these SA's reputation at the firm. There was one SA in my class who routinely prioritized summer lunches over real work, and that pissed off a number of attorneys that they had to work with after graduation. Hard to come back from that.

What do you mean by "other SAs have started talking to me"? Is it just these two? Or are others starting to join the two bad apples? If the former, then keep your sideways blinders on. Those two won't last at the firm, and their opinion doesn't matter. The firm is probably aware of what these two are doing, and will handle it how they want. If the later, then it's a bit harder. If it were me, I wouldn't change, but I'd try to be more stealth (e.g., talk less about assignments with them and more about your extravagant lunch plans).

If it gets worse (i.e., these and other summers ramp up the pressure), I'd consider politely raising the issue (without naming names) to recruiting (or whomever is in charge of the program) not to tattle on what they are doing, but instead to say that their behavior is having a negative impact on your experience as you try to meet and work with your future colleagues. If the firm was just going to ignore it because it seems isolated to a couple individuals, that might push them to do something about it.

Does your firm have mid-summer evals? Mine did and they were admittedly a joke. But I would think intentionally arriving late/leaving early and turning down assignments when you have no work would be something that would be raised at one of those.

Do you have an assigned associate mentor? They might have some helpful perspectives on this as well.

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Re: 2022 Summer Associate Thread (direct all your SA Qs here)

Post by temp69420 » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:44 am
temp69420 wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 7:31 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 3:17 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:03 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:39 pm
Sorry if this has been asked already, but I feel awkward asking people to go to lunch. Is it weird to follow up with people I had coffee with and seeing if they want to meet again?
Different person, but any thoughts? Especially for those of us working in smaller/satellite office with smaller classes.
not at all. they get a free lunch out of it and they can just say they're busy if uninterested (or actually busy).
If you're worried about wasting their time, you can also offer to go somewhere easy. E.g. "Hi X, If you have any availability, it would be great to have lunch sometime." They say "Sure, how about Thursday." You say, "Perfect. Obviously happy to go wherever you you prefer, but we definitely don't need to do the usual extended summer lunch thing -- just a sandwich would also be great." (Probably you don't need this advice, but I'm pretty autistic, so I'm just thinking of what would have helped me...)

That said, to the person above asking about lunch after coffee, personally I probably wouldn't push it too much. You'll run out of stuff to talk about eventually. And they feel like they should be talking to you a bit, but not all the time, probably.
I take the opposite view tbh, and I'm fairly introverted. Unless a summer is a complete tool I really value the opportunity to talk to them candidly about practice, and that only gets easier the more you get to know each other. Being able to mentor people in that way is one of the most rewarding parts about the job imo.
Fair. I agree with the last sentence. I'd just say that while 95% of people will be happy to do meet once, the number shrinks when you go past that, so reading the situation might be a bit more important.

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