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Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:15 pm
Bramwell wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:17 pm
Kirkland SLC associates on suicide watch
I heard from a source at K&E NY that everyone loves staffing people in the SLC because there’s a strong “Mormon work ethic” there. I suspect Miami would be the opposite culturally.
K&E's starting a "special situations" offshoot group of their restructuring group in the SLC office. Really curious to see how that goes and where they fit long term. I'm guessing it's just going to be a refuge for partners who want to do out of court deals all day, but who knows.
For those of us who aren’t RX lawyers, what does this mean?
Anon from the prior quoted post re special situations. K&E's restructuring practice is fundamentally debtor side, meaning its bread and butter clients are giant bankrupt companies that have to go through the chapter 11 process in the US Bankruptcy Courts. The group does have a smaller number of out-of-court restructurings, where the firm helps the client negotiate with its creditors outside of the courts/chapter 11 and figure out its debt without filing for bankruptcy.

This is where the special situations group fits I think - it's going to specialize in out of court negotiations/restructuring for nearly (but not quite) bankruptcy companies. That said, there's no telling what this means for K&E's overall strategy. We don't know if it's going to try to significantly expand its practice in out of court restructurings or if its going to just park a few big-book partners in that group to work out a few extra deals on the side. To be clear this isn't a new or unique type of practice, just relatively new for K&E, a firm that, like Weil, has historically focused on big Debtor representations in court.

Don't want to derail the thread too much though, just thought it was interesting.
I'm one of the founding members of the special sits group. Happy to PM if folks have specific questions about our background and target client base so as not to derail this thread. The simple answer is that we brought our own unique clients (mainly hedge funds and credit funds) but that leads to a lot of synergy with existing debt finance/Rx partners - gives us the ability to work on both the sponsor/debtor-side and lender side. Every side brings skills and relationships to the table so great way for everyone to make more money and do more deals (and we all get along very well, partly because it's leading to more money/deals). Envision was a good example. We also have partners that do special sits M&A.

FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.

As for SLC, it's not the base of the group in terms of the partnership or our client base -- generally BOS/NY/LA/CHI. But some of our promising younger associates are in (or relocating to) that office, so guessing that's where the rumor started. That said, I personally picked those folks and I generally have the conn in recruiting associates (both internally and externally). So I don't care if 9/10 of our associates end up being based in SLC or anywhere else. If we find hard-working associates who show promise then we'll make the investment to train them up - even if it requires some travel

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 21, 2022 3:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am
FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.
Was just thinking this myself - how many NY/CH associates are going to try to get visitor offices in Miami in November or December? Probably a lot. Wonder if they will have capacity for it.

MJSLMF

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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by MJSLMF » Sat May 21, 2022 5:13 pm

PM me, Anon?
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:15 pm
Bramwell wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:17 pm
Kirkland SLC associates on suicide watch
I heard from a source at K&E NY that everyone loves staffing people in the SLC because there’s a strong “Mormon work ethic” there. I suspect Miami would be the opposite culturally.
K&E's starting a "special situations" offshoot group of their restructuring group in the SLC office. Really curious to see how that goes and where they fit long term. I'm guessing it's just going to be a refuge for partners who want to do out of court deals all day, but who knows.
For those of us who aren’t RX lawyers, what does this mean?
Anon from the prior quoted post re special situations. K&E's restructuring practice is fundamentally debtor side, meaning its bread and butter clients are giant bankrupt companies that have to go through the chapter 11 process in the US Bankruptcy Courts. The group does have a smaller number of out-of-court restructurings, where the firm helps the client negotiate with its creditors outside of the courts/chapter 11 and figure out its debt without filing for bankruptcy.

This is where the special situations group fits I think - it's going to specialize in out of court negotiations/restructuring for nearly (but not quite) bankruptcy companies. That said, there's no telling what this means for K&E's overall strategy. We don't know if it's going to try to significantly expand its practice in out of court restructurings or if its going to just park a few big-book partners in that group to work out a few extra deals on the side. To be clear this isn't a new or unique type of practice, just relatively new for K&E, a firm that, like Weil, has historically focused on big Debtor representations in court.

Don't want to derail the thread too much though, just thought it was interesting.
I'm one of the founding members of the special sits group. Happy to PM if folks have specific questions about our background and target client base so as not to derail this thread. The simple answer is that we brought our own unique clients (mainly hedge funds and credit funds) but that leads to a lot of synergy with existing debt finance/Rx partners - gives us the ability to work on both the sponsor/debtor-side and lender side. Every side brings skills and relationships to the table so great way for everyone to make more money and do more deals (and we all get along very well, partly because it's leading to more money/deals). Envision was a good example. We also have partners that do special sits M&A.

FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.

As for SLC, it's not the base of the group in terms of the partnership or our client base -- generally BOS/NY/LA/CHI. But some of our promising younger associates are in (or relocating to) that office, so guessing that's where the rumor started. That said, I personally picked those folks and I generally have the conn in recruiting associates (both internally and externally). So I don't care if 9/10 of our associates end up being based in SLC or anywhere else. If we find hard-working associates who show promise then we'll make the investment to train them up - even if it requires some travel

Anonymous User
Posts: 428105
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 21, 2022 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am

I'm one of the founding members of the special sits group. Happy to PM if folks have specific questions about our background and target client base so as not to derail this thread. The simple answer is that we brought our own unique clients (mainly hedge funds and credit funds) but that leads to a lot of synergy with existing debt finance/Rx partners - gives us the ability to work on both the sponsor/debtor-side and lender side. Every side brings skills and relationships to the table so great way for everyone to make more money and do more deals (and we all get along very well, partly because it's leading to more money/deals). Envision was a good example. We also have partners that do special sits M&A.

FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.

As for SLC, it's not the base of the group in terms of the partnership or our client base -- generally BOS/NY/LA/CHI. But some of our promising younger associates are in (or relocating to) that office, so guessing that's where the rumor started. That said, I personally picked those folks and I generally have the conn in recruiting associates (both internally and externally). So I don't care if 9/10 of our associates end up being based in SLC or anywhere else. If we find hard-working associates who show promise then we'll make the investment to train them up - even if it requires some travel
Wildly off-topic, but curious about this as someone at a peer firm who swims in that space - why would K&E ever represent a creditor group pre-filing? I can get picking up whatever ad hoc rep there is if you can't grab the debtor mandate, but I wouldn't want to lock myself out of the debtor rep a few years before filing. Like, the general view on the Envision/Serta/J. Crew, etc of the world isn't "this is a great and healthy business taking advantage of a bad market" but "this is a business that desperately needs to refinance but its collateral based is tapped and nobody would lend unsecured."

Also, what was your background - debt finance, RX, something else?

MJSLMF

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Posts: 3
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by MJSLMF » Sun May 22, 2022 12:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:15 pm
Bramwell wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:17 pm
Kirkland SLC associates on suicide watch
I heard from a source at K&E NY that everyone loves staffing people in the SLC because there’s a strong “Mormon work ethic” there. I suspect Miami would be the opposite culturally.
K&E's starting a "special situations" offshoot group of their restructuring group in the SLC office. Really curious to see how that goes and where they fit long term. I'm guessing it's just going to be a refuge for partners who want to do out of court deals all day, but who knows.
For those of us who aren’t RX lawyers, what does this mean?
Anon from the prior quoted post re special situations. K&E's restructuring practice is fundamentally debtor side, meaning its bread and butter clients are giant bankrupt companies that have to go through the chapter 11 process in the US Bankruptcy Courts. The group does have a smaller number of out-of-court restructurings, where the firm helps the client negotiate with its creditors outside of the courts/chapter 11 and figure out its debt without filing for bankruptcy.

This is where the special situations group fits I think - it's going to specialize in out of court negotiations/restructuring for nearly (but not quite) bankruptcy companies. That said, there's no telling what this means for K&E's overall strategy. We don't know if it's going to try to significantly expand its practice in out of court restructurings or if its going to just park a few big-book partners in that group to work out a few extra deals on the side. To be clear this isn't a new or unique type of practice, just relatively new for K&E, a firm that, like Weil, has historically focused on big Debtor representations in court.

Don't want to derail the thread too much though, just thought it was interesting.
I'm one of the founding members of the special sits group. Happy to PM if folks have specific questions about our background and target client base so as not to derail this thread. The simple answer is that we brought our own unique clients (mainly hedge funds and credit funds) but that leads to a lot of synergy with existing debt finance/Rx partners - gives us the ability to work on both the sponsor/debtor-side and lender side. Every side brings skills and relationships to the table so great way for everyone to make more money and do more deals (and we all get along very well, partly because it's leading to more money/deals). Envision was a good example. We also have partners that do special sits M&A.

FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.

As for SLC, it's not the base of the group in terms of the partnership or our client base -- generally BOS/NY/LA/CHI. But some of our promising younger associates are in (or relocating to) that office, so guessing that's where the rumor started. That said, I personally picked those folks and I generally have the conn in recruiting associates (both internally and externally). So I don't care if 9/10 of our associates end up being based in SLC or anywhere else. If we find hard-working associates who show promise then we'll make the investment to train them up - even if it requires some travel
Can you ping me, Special Sits sensei?

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 22, 2022 10:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:45 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am

I'm one of the founding members of the special sits group. Happy to PM if folks have specific questions about our background and target client base so as not to derail this thread. The simple answer is that we brought our own unique clients (mainly hedge funds and credit funds) but that leads to a lot of synergy with existing debt finance/Rx partners - gives us the ability to work on both the sponsor/debtor-side and lender side. Every side brings skills and relationships to the table so great way for everyone to make more money and do more deals (and we all get along very well, partly because it's leading to more money/deals). Envision was a good example. We also have partners that do special sits M&A.

FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.

As for SLC, it's not the base of the group in terms of the partnership or our client base -- generally BOS/NY/LA/CHI. But some of our promising younger associates are in (or relocating to) that office, so guessing that's where the rumor started. That said, I personally picked those folks and I generally have the conn in recruiting associates (both internally and externally). So I don't care if 9/10 of our associates end up being based in SLC or anywhere else. If we find hard-working associates who show promise then we'll make the investment to train them up - even if it requires some travel
Wildly off-topic, but curious about this as someone at a peer firm who swims in that space - why would K&E ever represent a creditor group pre-filing? I can get picking up whatever ad hoc rep there is if you can't grab the debtor mandate, but I wouldn't want to lock myself out of the debtor rep a few years before filing. Like, the general view on the Envision/Serta/J. Crew, etc of the world isn't "this is a great and healthy business taking advantage of a bad market" but "this is a business that desperately needs to refinance but its collateral based is tapped and nobody would lend unsecured."

Also, what was your background - debt finance, RX, something else?
Yeah that's an interesting issue that I suspect many of our peer firms also have to deal with as it comes up--i.e., firms that do both lender/debtor representations. But thankfully it's a pretty narrow situation. First, it's rare for creditors to organize a group years ahead of a filing. If they do, it'll be to execute a different type of deal and the group will probably be comprised of institutions with different motivations (e.g., long-only CLOs or investors that bought in closer to par as opposed to distressed-focused funds that swoop in closer to bankruptcy). I can think of a few names during the pandemic where a group got organized but sat around for months because no actual catalyst, so it does happen but i wouldn't call it the norm. Second, we have very broad conflict waivers in our engagement letters that are designed to solve for this situation. I admit sometimes it gives the in-house lawyers at the asset managers some pause but we can usually figure it out. Last point is more practical in that we'll always leave some debtor work on the table--either because we don't have capacity, some other conflict and/or a competitor has the mandate. And our list of debtor-side competitors has really grown in the past few years beyond just Weil. White & Case, PW, and Latham are all real alternatives and Ropes will probably be there soon too. So it's something we'll just have to navigate on a case-by-case basis.

You're correct that the splashy liability management deals are done by companies that are further along the stressed spectrum -- which is why they're willing to swallow the litigation risk from more creative structures. But there are plenty of over-levered companies that seize opportunities to de-leverage more quietly. Usually portco's of our sponsor-side clients. We also team up with others to handle that work. And we do other work that isn't restructuring-adjacent.

My background is a mixture of creditor-side Rx + opportunistic credit (law firms and on the buy-side)

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 23, 2022 3:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 10:49 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:45 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 21, 2022 9:25 am

I'm one of the founding members of the special sits group. Happy to PM if folks have specific questions about our background and target client base so as not to derail this thread. The simple answer is that we brought our own unique clients (mainly hedge funds and credit funds) but that leads to a lot of synergy with existing debt finance/Rx partners - gives us the ability to work on both the sponsor/debtor-side and lender side. Every side brings skills and relationships to the table so great way for everyone to make more money and do more deals (and we all get along very well, partly because it's leading to more money/deals). Envision was a good example. We also have partners that do special sits M&A.

FWIW I'm pretty pumped for the Miami office even if just for the ability to to sit down there for 1-2 weeks at a time and work out of the office.

As for SLC, it's not the base of the group in terms of the partnership or our client base -- generally BOS/NY/LA/CHI. But some of our promising younger associates are in (or relocating to) that office, so guessing that's where the rumor started. That said, I personally picked those folks and I generally have the conn in recruiting associates (both internally and externally). So I don't care if 9/10 of our associates end up being based in SLC or anywhere else. If we find hard-working associates who show promise then we'll make the investment to train them up - even if it requires some travel
Wildly off-topic, but curious about this as someone at a peer firm who swims in that space - why would K&E ever represent a creditor group pre-filing? I can get picking up whatever ad hoc rep there is if you can't grab the debtor mandate, but I wouldn't want to lock myself out of the debtor rep a few years before filing. Like, the general view on the Envision/Serta/J. Crew, etc of the world isn't "this is a great and healthy business taking advantage of a bad market" but "this is a business that desperately needs to refinance but its collateral based is tapped and nobody would lend unsecured."

Also, what was your background - debt finance, RX, something else?
Yeah that's an interesting issue that I suspect many of our peer firms also have to deal with as it comes up--i.e., firms that do both lender/debtor representations. But thankfully it's a pretty narrow situation. First, it's rare for creditors to organize a group years ahead of a filing. If they do, it'll be to execute a different type of deal and the group will probably be comprised of institutions with different motivations (e.g., long-only CLOs or investors that bought in closer to par as opposed to distressed-focused funds that swoop in closer to bankruptcy). I can think of a few names during the pandemic where a group got organized but sat around for months because no actual catalyst, so it does happen but i wouldn't call it the norm. Second, we have very broad conflict waivers in our engagement letters that are designed to solve for this situation. I admit sometimes it gives the in-house lawyers at the asset managers some pause but we can usually figure it out. Last point is more practical in that we'll always leave some debtor work on the table--either because we don't have capacity, some other conflict and/or a competitor has the mandate. And our list of debtor-side competitors has really grown in the past few years beyond just Weil. White & Case, PW, and Latham are all real alternatives and Ropes will probably be there soon too. So it's something we'll just have to navigate on a case-by-case basis.

You're correct that the splashy liability management deals are done by companies that are further along the stressed spectrum -- which is why they're willing to swallow the litigation risk from more creative structures. But there are plenty of over-levered companies that seize opportunities to de-leverage more quietly. Usually portco's of our sponsor-side clients. We also team up with others to handle that work. And we do other work that isn't restructuring-adjacent.

My background is a mixture of creditor-side Rx + opportunistic credit (law firms and on the buy-side)
--
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed May 25, 2022 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 25, 2022 8:50 am

Bramwell wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 12:17 pm
Kirkland SLC associates on suicide watch
I heard from a source at K&E NY that everyone loves staffing people in the SLC because there’s a strong “Mormon work ethic” there. I suspect Miami would be the opposite culturally.

delete Sorry -- replied to the wrong anon comment.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Mon May 30, 2022 6:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 8:10 pm
Based on some recent high profile lateral hires, it seems Sidley is going to be opening a satellite office in Miami too. Interesting that Kirkland, Sidley & Winston (three big players in Chicago) all announce (or at least strongly signal) Miami openings in the same week period.
I've been drunkenly telling the Sidley partners for years that they need to open a Miami office. Glad theyve finally started listening to open bar rambling

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Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:37 am

Anyone have any thoughts/info as to whether they'll be recruiting from current SDFL or CA11 clerks?

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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:37 am
Anyone have any thoughts/info as to whether they'll be recruiting from current SDFL or CA11 clerks?
When I clerked on CA11 (just a few years ago) I could count on one hand the number of firms that mailed chambers trying to recruit clerks.

I also don't think the Miami office is a play for litigators, so I don't imagine that clerks are high on the list of possible recruits.

If it's anything like the SLC office, Kirkland will make it known internally that current associates and partners with a connection to South Florida are welcome to transfer there. My non-SLC office lost a chunk of people there who wanted to move back, mostly with BYU on their resume for either undergrad or law school.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:37 am
Anyone have any thoughts/info as to whether they'll be recruiting from current SDFL or CA11 clerks?
When I clerked on CA11 (just a few years ago) I could count on one hand the number of firms that mailed chambers trying to recruit clerks.

I also don't think the Miami office is a play for litigators, so I don't imagine that clerks are high on the list of possible recruits.

If it's anything like the SLC office, Kirkland will make it known internally that current associates and partners with a connection to South Florida are welcome to transfer there. My non-SLC office lost a chunk of people there who wanted to move back, mostly with BYU on their resume for either undergrad or law school.
This is consistent with it being partly a tax play. Maybe somebody who's in tax can confirm, but my guess was that a significant part of this was getting nexus into florida to lower taxes for partners.

Just as a back-of-the-envelope, suppose the profit margin is about 50%. Take an associate billing 2k hours at $1k/hour and move them from Illinois to Florida. Then the partnership is reducing taxes from 5% to 0% on that $1 million in income, so they save $50k and raise the after-tax profit margin on that money from 47.5% back up to 50%. If they move from New York, the effect could be as much as 10%.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am

Any chance the west coast tech firms will open a Miami office?

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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:37 am
Anyone have any thoughts/info as to whether they'll be recruiting from current SDFL or CA11 clerks?
When I clerked on CA11 (just a few years ago) I could count on one hand the number of firms that mailed chambers trying to recruit clerks.

I also don't think the Miami office is a play for litigators, so I don't imagine that clerks are high on the list of possible recruits.

If it's anything like the SLC office, Kirkland will make it known internally that current associates and partners with a connection to South Florida are welcome to transfer there. My non-SLC office lost a chunk of people there who wanted to move back, mostly with BYU on their resume for either undergrad or law school.
That surprises me—I got a lot on CA2, and while I’d expect some difference, I wouldn’t expect that degree of one. Especially since FL and ATL both have boutiques.

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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by 1styearlateral » Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 10:17 am
Any chance the west coast tech firms will open a Miami office?
They should. So many tech and VC firms moved down there or now have a presence. Looks like a few jumped to Austin last year, hoping they keep moving east.

Anonymous User
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Re: Kirkland Miami

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:50 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:44 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:37 am
Anyone have any thoughts/info as to whether they'll be recruiting from current SDFL or CA11 clerks?
When I clerked on CA11 (just a few years ago) I could count on one hand the number of firms that mailed chambers trying to recruit clerks.

I also don't think the Miami office is a play for litigators, so I don't imagine that clerks are high on the list of possible recruits.

If it's anything like the SLC office, Kirkland will make it known internally that current associates and partners with a connection to South Florida are welcome to transfer there. My non-SLC office lost a chunk of people there who wanted to move back, mostly with BYU on their resume for either undergrad or law school.
That surprises me—I got a lot on CA2, and while I’d expect some difference, I wouldn’t expect that degree of one. Especially since FL and ATL both have boutiques.
I’m the quoted and, perhaps ironically, none of the mailers that I can remember came from firms within the CA11 footprint. I remember DC and NY boutiques exclusively. Maybe the especially snooty ones just mail 2/9/DC chambers.

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