K&E Real Estate Forum

[Anonymous User]

I wonder what current KE real estate associates are thinking reading these comments

[Anonymous User]

I wonder what Samuel Zaretsky is thinking reading these posts (and the heart attack guy that’s supposedly the bad associate) lmao

[Anonymous User]

I truly hope this thread causes Kirkland to do something about the real estate group. It is NOT ok for partners to treat associates that way. It is NOT ok for partners to make racist comments and make the few associates of color feel different by not getting staffed on matters the way others were. It is NOT ok to make comments that penalize female associates for deciding to have a child and going on paternity leave. It is NOT ok to treat an associate terribly after he had a heart attack. It is NOT ok to ignore the concerns of associates who had multiple 300 or high 200 hour months repeatedly.

I, for one, am glad that these stories are coming out and hope this causes a broader conversation about changing biglaw culture.

WE the associates need to make that happen though.

Gunners need to stop with the 3500 hour craziness

[Anonymous User]

I truly hope this thread causes Kirkland to do something about the real estate group. It is NOT ok for partners to treat associates that way. It is NOT ok for partners to make racist comments and make the few associates of color feel different by not getting staffed on matters the way others were. It is NOT ok to make comments that penalize female associates for deciding to have a child and going on paternity leave. It is NOT ok to treat an associate terribly after he had a heart attack. It is NOT ok to ignore the concerns of associates who had multiple 300 or high 200 hour months repeatedly.

I, for one, am glad that these stories are coming out and hope this causes a broader conversation about changing biglaw culture.

Welcome to Kirkland, I suppose? Would the firm even exist if they couldn't do this stuff?

[Anonymous User]

What are the odds ^ poster is a white male, who hasn’t had to face difficulties others face.

[Sackboy]

What are the odds ^ poster is a white male, who hasn’t had to face difficulties others face.

Hey now, they could be a POC Republican too.

[Anonymous User]

I could see how this stuff could sound incredible to every sane person on the outside looking in, but I was in that RE group for a number of years and I can attest to the accuracy of most of the stories in this thread. Not rumors or hearsay either. I had a front row seat to all the action -- heart attack guy, all the women getting mixed up, etc., all true. To anyone considering it, agree that it's better than no biglaw but if you have other options, do take those instead. OP, let me know if you want more details in private.

[Anonymous User]

I was in the NY tax group at KE (left this year) and know for a fact this all happened as associates I knew in the RE group told me in real time.

An associate had a heart attack and was treated horribly by the RE partners. Women in the group were mixed up constantly. Staffing was terribly implemented, basically white dudes who thought they were cool bros but were actually nerds just staffed other white men, without regard for others. Vacations were not respected. Partners barely said thank you, if at all. No respect for associates or frankly for other partners. Some of the share partners treated the non share partners terribly.

Everyone gossiped about each other constantly. Just seemed like a terribly toxic work environment.

Fwiw - heard worse about Chi RE group.

[Anonymous User]

Is it true that almost all of the associates quit last year or is that exaggerated? From what I’ve been able to gather from LinkedIn etc, a few went to Gibson, Paul Hastings, Latham, Debevoise, etc. But those don’t seem like they would be much better than Kirkland. Unless Kirkland was just THAT bad as noted in this thread.

[Anonymous User]

Is it true that almost all of the associates quit last year or is that exaggerated? From what I’ve been able to gather from LinkedIn etc, a few went to Gibson, Paul Hastings, Latham, Debevoise, etc. But those don’t seem like they would be much better than Kirkland. Unless Kirkland was just THAT bad as noted in this thread.

Do you mean to imply that Gibson, Paul Hastings, Latham, Debevoise, etc. all treat their RE associates the same way and we're just not hearing about it? If not, then you answer your own question in your last sentence.

[Anonymous User]

Have friends at all of the above listed firms and I don’t think any of them come close to what has been described here. Certainly you’ll work a LOT at any of these firms but nothing like this. My SO is a RE associate at Gibson and he said he has colleagues who are former KE associates who confirmed much of what’s been described in this thread is true.

She also heard that apparently the training for juniors in the group is terrible. Juniors were not integrated into deal teams until 10 ish months after starting (other than doing random last minute things closer to closing). If I’m a junior, this does not sound like a great place to work (esp if I’m a woman or POC).

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw, I was in a specialist group at KE NY that worked with the RE team, and one partner in particular (Chris Hartmann), used to come into the office every weekend. I know for a fact there were times when he would call associates before 9 am on a Saturday morning. And due to his working in the office on the weekends, his associates were forced to do so as well.

Just crazy. No wonder all of the associates left last year.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw, I was in a specialist group at KE NY that worked with the RE team, and one partner in particular (Chris Hartmann), used to come into the office every weekend. I know for a fact there were times when he would call associates before 9 am on a Saturday morning. And due to his working in the office on the weekends, his associates were forced to do so as well.

Just crazy. No wonder all of the associates left last year.

Punchable face? University of Iowa? Fits the bill.

How does this even get communicated? Like does he send an email Saturday morning asking why the associate isn't there?

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if the Kirkland PR team has seen these posts and informed the partners that this is all becoming public knowledge lolol

Hard to imagine this thread doesn't make it to ATL. Holy shit we usually don't get insight into firms that is this detailed.

Anon from the first reply here - perhaps I'm more brave because I'm on my way out at KE (on good terms), but the thing is that KE truly was anything but a sweatshop. Some seriously amazing people are there and I was very pleasantly surprised at how good of an experience it was. The firm's reputation and my expectations (having heard the horror stories) really didn't line up with my firsthand experience. High billables and hard work but the people I worked with were just about all excellent humans. Will see it as a positive time looking back. Having said that, I feel that the RE group should be specifically called out for its toxicity and some action should be taken - it's the only group in the entire firm that I (and many others) think is legitimately toxic.

I’m also at KE in a different group (M&A) and have been surprised at the pleasant experience here (by BigLaw standards) after hearings lots of hype about how horrible it would be. However, I have also heard lots of negative stories about the RE group in particular. I’ve worked with an SP and an NSP from RE who seemed nice enough (from a “collaborating with M&A on some mutual deal issues” perspective) so I don’t think they’re all bad, but I haven’t heard a lot that’s positive about the group as a whole.

As usual, this is why you need to ignore anything you hear about any firm as a whole (good or bad) and instead drill down into the situation in a specific practice at a specific office. Could be radically different.