K&E Real Estate Forum

[Anonymous User]

I’ve seen a lot of posts about how toxic and horrible the real estate group at KE is. Anyone have any details? I’m considering an offer but scared of what has been written on this forum. Is it true Scott Berger has repeatedly yelled at and threatened associates?

[Anonymous User]

I’ve seen a lot of posts about how toxic and horrible the real estate group at KE is. Anyone have any details? I’m considering an offer but scared of what has been written on this forum. Is it true Scott Berger has repeatedly yelled at and threatened associates?

I am at K&E, I have multiple friends from the firm who have all since left the real estate group. I have spoken with them extensively about their experiences there and have discussed this group with my colleagues in my own practice group.

Do you have any other offers? If you don't then it's worth taking it over no Biglaw at all. If you have other offers for market-paying firms though, you should take those. KE Real Estate lost over 50% of their group last year and are well-known within the firm as the most toxic group within the entire firm. It is well known to have many screamers and partners who hog matters/business to the detriment of associates. It is not a good group to be in and I've specifically heard it's rough on juniors. Not sure how this impacts you as you don't specify class year, but I believe the group is also extremely low on Juniors. The only real estate person from my summer class is on a 3000+ hour place because there's no one left to do the grunt work.

(Run if you can)

[DobisFruit73]

I had a callback with K&E for real estate last year and one of the partners basically spent their portion of the callback candidly telling me how stressful and overworked the department was.

[Anonymous User]

I have 1 friend who left the New York RE group last year. They said 15 associates quit in one year. Most partners there are awful people. They give handwritten comments that you cannot read and then yell at you if you ask them questions about it. They don’t respect religious holidays. I heard a story about one senior associate who’s wife was pregnant and had an emergency medical procedure and the partners were giving him shit all day about not being responsive (even though they knew his wife was having a procedure). They told a non share partner he couldn’t take his full paternity leave after his son was born if he wanted to eventually get shares.

They are the prime example of partners who don’t know how to manage client expectations and as a result don’t care about their associates wellbeing. Also they have one major client, Starwood, so you won’t be doing diverse work. Same deals constantly. My understanding is the only mid level associate who stayed in the group is a crazy gunner who all of the other associates and partner made fun of behind his back. Every other associate is new and from what I’ve been told they are billing multiple 300 hour months in a row, without even a thank you from the partners. Partners would routinely mistake female associates with other female associates. Apparently, one partner said something very racist to a mid level associate who is a person of color. The head of the group, Scott Berger, is literally not allowed to work with associates anymore because he has a severe temper problem and has yelled at associates in a completely unprofessional manner. One partner is infamous for working while his wife was giving birth.

Sorry for the long post. I saw my friend truly suffer during their time in this group and I would not wish it on anyone.

[Anonymous User]

I have 1 friend who left the New York RE group last year. They said 15 associates quit in one year. Most partners there are awful people. They give handwritten comments that you cannot read and then yell at you if you ask them questions about it. They don’t respect religious holidays. I heard a story about one senior associate who’s wife was pregnant and had an emergency medical procedure and the partners were giving him shit all day about not being responsive (even though they knew his wife was having a procedure). They told a non share partner he couldn’t take his full paternity leave after his son was born if he wanted to eventually get shares.

They are the prime example of partners who don’t know how to manage client expectations and as a result don’t care about their associates wellbeing. Also they have one major client, Starwood, so you won’t be doing diverse work. Same deals constantly. My understanding is the only mid level associate who stayed in the group is a crazy gunner who all of the other associates and partner made fun of behind his back. Every other associate is new and from what I’ve been told they are billing multiple 300 hour months in a row, without even a thank you from the partners. Partners would routinely mistake female associates with other female associates. Apparently, one partner said something very racist to a mid level associate who is a person of color. The head of the group, Scott Berger, is literally not allowed to work with associates anymore because he has a severe temper problem and has yelled at associates in a completely unprofessional manner. One partner is infamous for working while his wife was giving birth.

Sorry for the long post. I saw my friend truly suffer during their time in this group and I would not wish it on anyone.

One highlight anecdote from a former KE RE associate was one of the partners telling him to treat a female associate (3rd or 4th year) who had just gotten back from a 4-month maternity leave "like she was a first year who didn't know anything about law."

[Anonymous User]

Also heard anecdotally - the group is and used to be a prime example of white men constantly staffing other white men on their deals. While sexism is also definitely a thing in the group, POC attorneys (male and female) were not treated well and often felt like they had to prove themselves before getting staffed on deals in a way white associates did not. Again, this is secondhand and third hand info.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if the Kirkland PR team has seen these posts and informed the partners that this is all becoming public knowledge lolol

[BrowsingTLS]

I wonder if the Kirkland PR team has seen these posts and informed the partners that this is all becoming public knowledge lolol

Hard to imagine this thread doesn't make it to ATL. Holy shit we usually don't get insight into firms that is this detailed.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if the Kirkland PR team has seen these posts and informed the partners that this is all becoming public knowledge lolol

Hard to imagine this thread doesn't make it to ATL. Holy shit we usually don't get insight into firms that is this detailed.

Anon from the first reply here - perhaps I'm more brave because I'm on my way out at KE (on good terms), but the thing is that KE truly was anything but a sweatshop. Some seriously amazing people are there and I was very pleasantly surprised at how good of an experience it was. The firm's reputation and my expectations (having heard the horror stories) really didn't line up with my firsthand experience. High billables and hard work but the people I worked with were just about all excellent humans. Will see it as a positive time looking back. Having said that, I feel that the RE group should be specifically called out for its toxicity and some action should be taken - it's the only group in the entire firm that I (and many others) think is legitimately toxic.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t have any reason to question anything in this thread, and did not do a ton of work with the RE group while at K&E, but to give a counterpoint I worked with one relatively younger equity partner in the Chicago office who seemed like a friendly and normal human being even when something went wrong. Maybe this person was just an outlier.

[BrowsingTLS]

I wonder if the Kirkland PR team has seen these posts and informed the partners that this is all becoming public knowledge lolol

Hard to imagine this thread doesn't make it to ATL. Holy shit we usually don't get insight into firms that is this detailed.

Anon from the first reply here - perhaps I'm more brave because I'm on my way out at KE (on good terms), but the thing is that KE truly was anything but a sweatshop. Some seriously amazing people are there and I was very pleasantly surprised at how good of an experience it was. The firm's reputation and my expectations (having heard the horror stories) really didn't line up with my firsthand experience. High billables and hard work but the people I worked with were just about all excellent humans. Will see it as a positive time looking back. Having said that, I feel that the RE group should be specifically called out for its toxicity and some action should be taken - it's the only group in the entire firm that I (and many others) think is legitimately toxic.

Congrats on the career change.

K&E's summer program is apparently the #1 place to be for law students and maybe that's partly because of law students being gunners or the good things you shared about K&E, notwithstanding what we're learning about the RE group. https://abovethelaw.com/2022/05/most-de ... stination/

[Anonymous User]

Can echo everything here. Truly terrible partners, particularly in Chi and NY. They don’t care about their associates at all. Heard through the firm grapevine, an associate had a heart attack and then got lectured about not being responsive that day during his annual review. Just crazy. Apparently, that was the thing that led to the majority of associates in NY quitting the group.

[Anonymous User]

Wait how has this not gotten more attention?! An associate had a heart attack and the partners in the KE Real Estate group criticized him for not being responsive on the day that associate had the heart attack?!?!?! What the actual f

[Joachim2017]

The partner knew the associate had a heart attack and still criticized him/her for being non-responsive? Color me skeptical ....

Maybe there's a kernel of truth here, but I'm guessing a lot of this is exaggerated.

[Anonymous User]

Entertaining thread, hopefully not all true

Some of the plotlines could feature in a Tv show … Bit of Suits, Wall Street, and devil wears Prada…

[Anonymous User]

It’s all true. I wish it was exaggerated. Left KE last yr and heard much of this, including the heart attack story, from RE associates. Admittedly, I heard the associate who had the heart attack wasn’t the best associate so he probably was going to get a negative review anyways. But still…

[Anonymous User]

These sentiments are 100% true. Stay away if you can, and if you’re at K&E do not accept being added on to any real estate projects from NY or Dallas. There are 1 or 2 people in the group that are ok, but between you and them is a legion of assholes who, more often than not, confuse bullying for subject matter knowledge. It only gets better if you stand up for yourself and start documenting your interactions (and the incorrect instructions given). For others who aren’t as assertive, it’s very rough, and people have broken down and started crying.

PS. Important to note that this does not apply to the real estate funds team from Chicago - they are gems to work with.

[temp69420]

It’s all true. I wish it was exaggerated. Left KE last yr and heard much of this, including the heart attack story, from RE associates. Admittedly, I heard the associate who had the heart attack wasn’t the best associate so he probably was going to get a negative review anyways. But still…

"These rumors all sound pretty implausible."
"No, it's all true, I also heard rumors."

[Anonymous User]

It’s all true. I wish it was exaggerated. Left KE last yr and heard much of this, including the heart attack story, from RE associates. Admittedly, I heard the associate who had the heart attack wasn’t the best associate so he probably was going to get a negative review anyways. But still…

"These rumors all sound pretty implausible."
"No, it's all true, I also heard rumors."

I mean, I get it, this isn't going to pass in a court of law. Fact is I've at least had several dinners with a guy in the RE group who knew the heart attack guy and told me the story, in detail, over dinner. So yeah, it's rumors, but I know that the heart attack guy did have a heart attack, did work at KE, and is in fact a person who exists.

I know it's the baseline to be contrarian here, but there's also a baseline of truth evident in this thread as to the relative toxicity level of the KE RE group that should be plainly evident.

[Anonymous User]

Wait how has this not gotten more attention?! An associate had a heart attack and the partners in the KE Real Estate group criticized him for not being responsive on the day that associate had the heart attack?!?!?! What the actual f

Related? Cover up? Informant? The plot thickens.

https://www.kirkland.com/lawyers/z/zaretsky-samuel

https://abovethelaw.com/author/staci-zaretsky/

[Anonymous User]

Wait how has this not gotten more attention?! An associate had a heart attack and the partners in the KE Real Estate group criticized him for not being responsive on the day that associate had the heart attack?!?!?! What the actual f

Related? Cover up? Informant? The plot thickens.

https://www.kirkland.com/lawyers/z/zaretsky-samuel

https://abovethelaw.com/author/staci-zaretsky/

What exactly is the conspiracy here. That Staci goes easy on KE because her little brother (if they are related) started working there 6 years after she started at ATL?

[Sackboy]

Wait how has this not gotten more attention?! An associate had a heart attack and the partners in the KE Real Estate group criticized him for not being responsive on the day that associate had the heart attack?!?!?! What the actual f

Related? Cover up? Informant? The plot thickens.

https://www.kirkland.com/lawyers/z/zaretsky-samuel

https://abovethelaw.com/author/staci-zaretsky/

What exactly is the conspiracy here. That Staci goes easy on KE because her little brother (if they are related) started working there 6 years after she started at ATL?

It's a pretty obvious shitpost. Not everything has to be serious.

[Anonymous User]

Wait how has this not gotten more attention?! An associate had a heart attack and the partners in the KE Real Estate group criticized him for not being responsive on the day that associate had the heart attack?!?!?! What the actual f

Related? Cover up? Informant? The plot thickens.

https://www.kirkland.com/lawyers/z/zaretsky-samuel

https://abovethelaw.com/author/staci-zaretsky/

What exactly is the conspiracy here. That Staci goes easy on KE because her little brother (if they are related) started working there 6 years after she started at ATL?

Hi Staci.

[Anonymous User]

I truly hope this thread causes Kirkland to do something about the real estate group. It is NOT ok for partners to treat associates that way. It is NOT ok for partners to make racist comments and make the few associates of color feel different by not getting staffed on matters the way others were. It is NOT ok to make comments that penalize female associates for deciding to have a child and going on paternity leave. It is NOT ok to treat an associate terribly after he had a heart attack. It is NOT ok to ignore the concerns of associates who had multiple 300 or high 200 hour months repeatedly.

I, for one, am glad that these stories are coming out and hope this causes a broader conversation about changing biglaw culture.

[BrowsingTLS]

Wait how has this not gotten more attention?! An associate had a heart attack and the partners in the KE Real Estate group criticized him for not being responsive on the day that associate had the heart attack?!?!?! What the actual f

Related? Cover up? Informant? The plot thickens.

https://www.kirkland.com/lawyers/z/zaretsky-samuel

https://abovethelaw.com/author/staci-zaretsky/

What exactly is the conspiracy here. That Staci goes easy on KE because her little brother (if they are related) started working there 6 years after she started at ATL?

It's a pretty obvious shitpost. Not everything has to be serious.

Wait until he finds out Stacy Zaretsky was going to run an ATL story about how Samuel Zaretsky shittalks K&E real estate over dinner with Stacy, causing Samuel to have the infamous heartattack.