Firm Retreats Forum

[Helicopter]

This thread is hilarious.

On one side, you have the clearly-introverted siding with the safety-concerned.
Both use the legitimate argument of safety, one for their benefit and the other for society's benefit.

On the other side, you have the worn-out realists and the covid-isn't-that-bad crowd.
Both use the legitimate argument that Covid is going to be here forever, one because it's the truth and the other because they watched too much Joe Rogan.

[Anonymous User]

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

I guess that's fair, mine was not the comment calling them dorks. I did respond to a comment implicitly calling us murderers, so. Anyways, you don't want to go, don't.

I am kinda curious (having been a super hawk on covid until vaccinated) what the end game is for people who are still being cautious. The way I see it, maybe if we were all careful in the early stages it never would have spread. I did my part then. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Controlling it or stopping the spread is never happening. It's just going to be endemic and like the flu. Get your annual flu shot, get your annual covid shot. (Don't get them on the same day tho, I made that mistake and ouch). Would anything make you feel comfortable going back to normal society, ever?

Anon you’re responding to, and personally I’m pretty much back to normal, but I know people who are still being cautious. They are generally people at elevated risk even with vaccines (for instance, I have a friend who has had a heart transplant and she’s been vaccinated 3x but doesn’t generate any antibodies in response, probably because of the immunosuppressants she’s on), and who have kids who are too little to be vaccinated. I get there’s a lot of debate about whether kids that little are at high risk of having a bad outcome if they get Covid, but it’s not my place to tell those parents they’re being overcautious, especially since eventually there will either be an appropriate vaccine or their kids will age into the ones we currently have.

So the end game for people with little kids is to get them vaccinated, and the end game for the immunosuppressed kind of sucks because it’s not as clear, although the continuing improved treatments will probably help make people feel more comfortable.

All that said, I haven’t had it and I still don’t want to get it even though I’m very unlikely to die (not sure about long Covid symptoms). I’d go to a firm retreat without much heartburn, but I don’t blame people who would prefer to see things like screening and such, and I do feel better if institutions etc. actually acknowledge it’s still a risk rather than acting as if everything is *entirely* back to normal already. (A lot of the parents of little kids I know are burnt out and exhausted and feel kind of left behind by that kind of messaging, let alone high risk people who feel like they’ve been treated as dispensable throughout this whole thing.)

I have kids. They are not at risk and homeschooling (aka "remote") is not viable. So they are back in school. If you're a parent still isolating your kids, it's your choice how to parent but I'm allowed to think you're wrong.

Someone who had a heart transplant sure, but that person should probably be bubble wrapped anyhow (flu, colds, etc, all extremely dangerous).

Still not hearing an answer to regular people who aren't willing to go back to normal.

I'm a regular person with kids too young to be vaccinated and for me it's a somewhat complicated analysis. My older (unvaccinated) kid attends pre-K but wears a mask. Once he's old enough to be vaccinated/they make a vaccine for under 5s, he will take his mask off (if permitted by the school) because I think teachers seeing his face is important for his development/education. But I will continue to wear a mask in indoor public settings, especially when there is a surge in cases, because the cost to me is negligible and the benefit is real, not only for the sake of my unvaccinated kids, but also for the sake of the vulnerable for whom Covid still is a real risk. So I guess rather than insisting that everything "go back to normal," I am willing to make slight, essentially costless tweaks to my life in the new normal.

On another note, I feel like the WFH 4 life crowd and the Covid is bullshit crowd have a lot of (to me surprising) overlap.

[Anonymous User]

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

I guess that's fair, mine was not the comment calling them dorks. I did respond to a comment implicitly calling us murderers, so. Anyways, you don't want to go, don't.

I am kinda curious (having been a super hawk on covid until vaccinated) what the end game is for people who are still being cautious. The way I see it, maybe if we were all careful in the early stages it never would have spread. I did my part then. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Controlling it or stopping the spread is never happening. It's just going to be endemic and like the flu. Get your annual flu shot, get your annual covid shot. (Don't get them on the same day tho, I made that mistake and ouch). Would anything make you feel comfortable going back to normal society, ever?

Anon you’re responding to, and personally I’m pretty much back to normal, but I know people who are still being cautious. They are generally people at elevated risk even with vaccines (for instance, I have a friend who has had a heart transplant and she’s been vaccinated 3x but doesn’t generate any antibodies in response, probably because of the immunosuppressants she’s on), and who have kids who are too little to be vaccinated. I get there’s a lot of debate about whether kids that little are at high risk of having a bad outcome if they get Covid, but it’s not my place to tell those parents they’re being overcautious, especially since eventually there will either be an appropriate vaccine or their kids will age into the ones we currently have.

So the end game for people with little kids is to get them vaccinated, and the end game for the immunosuppressed kind of sucks because it’s not as clear, although the continuing improved treatments will probably help make people feel more comfortable.

All that said, I haven’t had it and I still don’t want to get it even though I’m very unlikely to die (not sure about long Covid symptoms). I’d go to a firm retreat without much heartburn, but I don’t blame people who would prefer to see things like screening and such, and I do feel better if institutions etc. actually acknowledge it’s still a risk rather than acting as if everything is *entirely* back to normal already. (A lot of the parents of little kids I know are burnt out and exhausted and feel kind of left behind by that kind of messaging, let alone high risk people who feel like they’ve been treated as dispensable throughout this whole thing.)

I have kids. They are not at risk and homeschooling (aka "remote") is not viable. So they are back in school. If you're a parent still isolating your kids, it's your choice how to parent but I'm allowed to think you're wrong.

Someone who had a heart transplant sure, but that person should probably be bubble wrapped anyhow (flu, colds, etc, all extremely dangerous).

Still not hearing an answer to regular people who aren't willing to go back to normal.

I also have kids. One goes to school, the other has a nanny. Currently we're at the height of another wave, so it's totally reasonable to be more cautious, such as not attending very large, indoor gatherings. Not because COVID is going to kill anyone in our family, but because if anyone gets COVID, it's going to be real fucking annoying to have to watch the kids for a week while both of us are trying to work.

I'm willing to go back to more normality when this current wave goes back down.

[Anonymous User]

I am a normie who takes a "drink in moderation" approach to things. I wear masks whenever I am indoors in public, especially on the subway or in a cab or plane, or at the store. If I am in an outdoor space but there are lots of people, I will also wear a mask. That being said, I do go to restaurants on occasion and will dine indoors, and when I return to the office, I will likely take my mask off to interact with my colleagues (I will be new, so I want them to see my face). I will also take my mask off when I am outdoors but there aren't a lot of people around (like on a running trail or spacious park). I am vaxxed and boosted, and will likely get the 2nd booster, but will probably wait a bit to space out the anti-bodies. If there is an uptick in cases in my area, I will pare back riskier activities, like going out with friends or dining at restaurant. If there is an option for a public event to be screened with testing, I will suggest, support, and prefer that option. My approach is obviously not fool proof, and there are gaping holes/weak links where I intermittently engage in higher risk activities. But to me it is all about holistic risk reduction, and rejecting the notion that you either have to be a hermit or 100% "back to normal". There's no reason for me to not try to reduce my risk and err on the side of caution whenever it's convenient/costless to me, even if sometimes there will be a compelling reason for me to engage in a higher risk activity ie. just because you eat like shit sometimes, or forget to wear your seatbelt, doesn't mean you should never eat healthy or wear a seatbelt.

I've accepted that I will do the above for the rest of my life, or at least for the next 10 years.