Firm Retreats Forum

[stl1622dc]

My firm has an in person partner retreat this month where 100s of partners from across the country will congregate at some resort. Seems like a recipe for disaster.

Have other firms started returning to holding large in person retreats? Any issues?

[Anonymous User]

My firm had assoc and partner retreat for a practice group in the fall. No issues, Covid tests, and outdoor events.

[Anonymous User]

We have one this summer, holding out for expectations it’ll be a good time

Anticipate everyone answering emails on their phones all week

[Anonymous User]

Boies Schiller does this every year in Florida, not just for partners but all associates as well. Did it last year, no real issues with Covid or anything like that.

[Anonymous User]

I’m no Covid-denier and stayed locked up at home longer than most, but this seems like an extreme concern? People are returning to their lives and that will include stuff like partner retreats. I would be more concerned about how annoying it will be tracking down the partners while they’re on the retreat than about the partnership contracting Covid.

[glitched]

These are surprisingly really fun and makes a lot of sense for networking within the firm. It's so much easier emailing someone in a different office after you've met them.

I'm sure once in a while some weird stuff goes down, but I personally haven't heard of any issues. Putting a bunch of people in a resort for a weekend with unlimited booze is just a recipe for some things to go awry.

[VentureMBA]

COVID either caused or revealed mental defects in a huge segment of the population.

People are still concerned about this stuff?

[glitched]

COVID either caused or revealed mental defects in a huge segment of the population.

People are still concerned about this stuff?

It's reasonable to be concerned about COVID.

[VentureMBA]

COVID either caused or revealed mental defects in a huge segment of the population.

People are still concerned about this stuff?

It's reasonable to be concerned about COVID.

My firm has this policy that people come into the office, that means driving to work. With all the car accidents in the world, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is anyone else seeing this at their firms? Any issues?

[nixy]

COVID either caused or revealed mental defects in a huge segment of the population.

People are still concerned about this stuff?

It's reasonable to be concerned about COVID.

My firm has this policy that people come into the office, that means driving to work. With all the car accidents in the world, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is anyone else seeing this at their firms? Any issues?

It’s reasonable to be concerned about Covid, your “gotcha!!” analogy notwithstanding.

[glitched]

COVID either caused or revealed mental defects in a huge segment of the population.

People are still concerned about this stuff?

It's reasonable to be concerned about COVID.

My firm has this policy that people come into the office, that means driving to work. With all the car accidents in the world, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is anyone else seeing this at their firms? Any issues?

Bad logic. We do everything we can to make driving safe, and it's still reasonable to be concerned about car accidents.

[Anonymous User]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

[parkslope]

COVID either caused or revealed mental defects in a huge segment of the population.

People are still concerned about this stuff?

It's reasonable to be concerned about COVID.

My firm has this policy that people come into the office, that means driving to work. With all the car accidents in the world, sounds like a recipe for disaster. Is anyone else seeing this at their firms? Any issues?

Bad logic. We do everything we can to make driving safe, and it's still reasonable to be concerned about car accidents.

I think the real tell here is that we don't do very much to prevent car accidents (e.g., speeding is basically unenforced, most areas are very hostile to pedestrians, mass amounts of drunk driving) and we should do more to prevent them, same with Covid.

[RedNewJersey]

I went to a firm retreat. People didn't require masks, but it was very clear that anyone concerned about COVID was not required to go. Everyone was tested before going.

Opt-in seems like the way to go (and this should apply to RTO too). People who are worried about COVID and those who want to get on with their lives simply aren't seeing the world the same way, and there's no practical compromises. It's like vegans and barbecue enthusiasts--sure, you could grill mushrooms or something, but both groups would be better off with just having separate events.

[jotarokujo]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

[Anonymous User]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

This is a dumb straw man. People at risk don't have to unmask or go to retreats. It's been two years. More. We have vaccines, better treatments, etc. I really don't understand what you expect me to do at this point. Just never go back to normal? Seriously asking.

[Anonymous User]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

This is a dumb straw man. People at risk don't have to unmask or go to retreats. It's been two years. More. We have vaccines, better treatments, etc. I really don't understand what you expect me to do at this point. Just never go back to normal? Seriously asking.

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

[Anonymous User]

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

I guess that's fair, mine was not the comment calling them dorks. I did respond to a comment implicitly calling us murderers, so. Anyways, you don't want to go, don't.

I am kinda curious (having been a super hawk on covid until vaccinated) what the end game is for people who are still being cautious. The way I see it, maybe if we were all careful in the early stages it never would have spread. I did my part then. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Controlling it or stopping the spread is never happening. It's just going to be endemic and like the flu. Get your annual flu shot, get your annual covid shot. (Don't get them on the same day tho, I made that mistake and ouch). Would anything make you feel comfortable going back to normal society, ever?

[VentureMBA]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

The implication you're making here is that going to a retreat this year is tantamount to risking your parents' lives or the lives of others' parents.

I stand by everything I said about mental defects above.

[Anonymous User]

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

I guess that's fair, mine was not the comment calling them dorks. I did respond to a comment implicitly calling us murderers, so. Anyways, you don't want to go, don't.

I am kinda curious (having been a super hawk on covid until vaccinated) what the end game is for people who are still being cautious. The way I see it, maybe if we were all careful in the early stages it never would have spread. I did my part then. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Controlling it or stopping the spread is never happening. It's just going to be endemic and like the flu. Get your annual flu shot, get your annual covid shot. (Don't get them on the same day tho, I made that mistake and ouch). Would anything make you feel comfortable going back to normal society, ever?

Anon you’re responding to, and personally I’m pretty much back to normal, but I know people who are still being cautious. They are generally people at elevated risk even with vaccines (for instance, I have a friend who has had a heart transplant and she’s been vaccinated 3x but doesn’t generate any antibodies in response, probably because of the immunosuppressants she’s on), and who have kids who are too little to be vaccinated. I get there’s a lot of debate about whether kids that little are at high risk of having a bad outcome if they get Covid, but it’s not my place to tell those parents they’re being overcautious, especially since eventually there will either be an appropriate vaccine or their kids will age into the ones we currently have.

So the end game for people with little kids is to get them vaccinated, and the end game for the immunosuppressed kind of sucks because it’s not as clear, although the continuing improved treatments will probably help make people feel more comfortable.

All that said, I haven’t had it and I still don’t want to get it even though I’m very unlikely to die (not sure about long Covid symptoms). I’d go to a firm retreat without much heartburn, but I don’t blame people who would prefer to see things like screening and such, and I do feel better if institutions etc. actually acknowledge it’s still a risk rather than acting as if everything is *entirely* back to normal already. (A lot of the parents of little kids I know are burnt out and exhausted and feel kind of left behind by that kind of messaging, let alone high risk people who feel like they’ve been treated as dispensable throughout this whole thing.)

[glitched]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

The implication you're making here is that going to a retreat this year is tantamount to risking your parents' lives or the lives of others' parents.

I stand by everything I said about mental defects above.

Bad logic again. For some people, it can be tantamount, especially if their parents have illnesses that put them at extreme risk (such as having cancer). Saying that these people have "mental defects" is wrong and unwarranted.

This thread should move to the lounge.

[nixy]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

The implication you're making here is that going to a retreat this year is tantamount to risking your parents' lives or the lives of others' parents.

I stand by everything I said about mental defects above.

I mean, if your parents are elderly or otherwise high risk (and age is a huge risk factor), yeah, you could get Covid and infect your parents, and that could risk their lives. It’s fine if you don’t see that risk as worth affecting your calculus, but it’s not a mental defect to disagree.

[jotarokujo]

It's like we have all collectively agreed that COVID is over and you're a dork if you disagree. Except that it's not over. And there's still lots of people who can't be vaccinated yet. And I personally know at least a dozen people who were vaxxed and boosted and got breakthrough infections: most were fine, but a couple died (they were elderly) and some got long COVID (they were healthy 30-somethings). If you want to say - I know the risk and don't care - well, I guess that's fine, it's your life, but you can't force it on other people and the social pressure to reject restrictions is real. /end rant.

a lot of the COVID deaths have been out of sight for us younger folks, e.g. concentrated in nursing homes and whatnot because it's largely older people who have died from COVID. so, understandably, a lot of people like VentureMBA have basically accepted these deaths and have made a calculation that it's not worth it to allow it to affect their behavior. they figure older folks like their parents are on their way out anyways, what's the point of saving them a few years

personally, i really like older folks like my parents. so i care about covid. but the reality is a lot of people don't

The implication you're making here is that going to a retreat this year is tantamount to risking your parents' lives or the lives of others' parents.

I stand by everything I said about mental defects above.

lmao it's not that hard to comprehend what i wrote

[Anonymous User]

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

I guess that's fair, mine was not the comment calling them dorks. I did respond to a comment implicitly calling us murderers, so. Anyways, you don't want to go, don't.

I am kinda curious (having been a super hawk on covid until vaccinated) what the end game is for people who are still being cautious. The way I see it, maybe if we were all careful in the early stages it never would have spread. I did my part then. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Controlling it or stopping the spread is never happening. It's just going to be endemic and like the flu. Get your annual flu shot, get your annual covid shot. (Don't get them on the same day tho, I made that mistake and ouch). Would anything make you feel comfortable going back to normal society, ever?

Anon you’re responding to, and personally I’m pretty much back to normal, but I know people who are still being cautious. They are generally people at elevated risk even with vaccines (for instance, I have a friend who has had a heart transplant and she’s been vaccinated 3x but doesn’t generate any antibodies in response, probably because of the immunosuppressants she’s on), and who have kids who are too little to be vaccinated. I get there’s a lot of debate about whether kids that little are at high risk of having a bad outcome if they get Covid, but it’s not my place to tell those parents they’re being overcautious, especially since eventually there will either be an appropriate vaccine or their kids will age into the ones we currently have.

So the end game for people with little kids is to get them vaccinated, and the end game for the immunosuppressed kind of sucks because it’s not as clear, although the continuing improved treatments will probably help make people feel more comfortable.

All that said, I haven’t had it and I still don’t want to get it even though I’m very unlikely to die (not sure about long Covid symptoms). I’d go to a firm retreat without much heartburn, but I don’t blame people who would prefer to see things like screening and such, and I do feel better if institutions etc. actually acknowledge it’s still a risk rather than acting as if everything is *entirely* back to normal already. (A lot of the parents of little kids I know are burnt out and exhausted and feel kind of left behind by that kind of messaging, let alone high risk people who feel like they’ve been treated as dispensable throughout this whole thing.)

I have kids. They are not at risk and homeschooling (aka "remote") is not viable. So they are back in school. If you're a parent still isolating your kids, it's your choice how to parent but I'm allowed to think you're wrong.

Someone who had a heart transplant sure, but that person should probably be bubble wrapped anyhow (flu, colds, etc, all extremely dangerous).

Still not hearing an answer to regular people who aren't willing to go back to normal.

[Anonymous User]

You can do whatever you like. We’re just expecting you not to make fun of people who are still concerned or call them idiots.

I guess that's fair, mine was not the comment calling them dorks. I did respond to a comment implicitly calling us murderers, so. Anyways, you don't want to go, don't.

I am kinda curious (having been a super hawk on covid until vaccinated) what the end game is for people who are still being cautious. The way I see it, maybe if we were all careful in the early stages it never would have spread. I did my part then. But unfortunately that's not the world we live in. Controlling it or stopping the spread is never happening. It's just going to be endemic and like the flu. Get your annual flu shot, get your annual covid shot. (Don't get them on the same day tho, I made that mistake and ouch). Would anything make you feel comfortable going back to normal society, ever?

Anon you’re responding to, and personally I’m pretty much back to normal, but I know people who are still being cautious. They are generally people at elevated risk even with vaccines (for instance, I have a friend who has had a heart transplant and she’s been vaccinated 3x but doesn’t generate any antibodies in response, probably because of the immunosuppressants she’s on), and who have kids who are too little to be vaccinated. I get there’s a lot of debate about whether kids that little are at high risk of having a bad outcome if they get Covid, but it’s not my place to tell those parents they’re being overcautious, especially since eventually there will either be an appropriate vaccine or their kids will age into the ones we currently have.

So the end game for people with little kids is to get them vaccinated, and the end game for the immunosuppressed kind of sucks because it’s not as clear, although the continuing improved treatments will probably help make people feel more comfortable.

All that said, I haven’t had it and I still don’t want to get it even though I’m very unlikely to die (not sure about long Covid symptoms). I’d go to a firm retreat without much heartburn, but I don’t blame people who would prefer to see things like screening and such, and I do feel better if institutions etc. actually acknowledge it’s still a risk rather than acting as if everything is *entirely* back to normal already. (A lot of the parents of little kids I know are burnt out and exhausted and feel kind of left behind by that kind of messaging, let alone high risk people who feel like they’ve been treated as dispensable throughout this whole thing.)

I have kids. They are not at risk and homeschooling (aka "remote") is not viable. So they are back in school. If you're a parent still isolating your kids, it's your choice how to parent but I'm allowed to think you're wrong.

Someone who had a heart transplant sure, but that person should probably be bubble wrapped anyhow (flu, colds, etc, all extremely dangerous).

Still not hearing an answer to regular people who aren't willing to go back to normal.

I mean the problem is that you can’t limit policy to “regular” people because there are lots of high risk people in the world, and you don’t know anything about the personal circumstances of the people who are raising concerns here. They may not be “regular” people, and it’s not like only “regular” people should be considered in this.

Re kids, I’m talking like babies to age 3. You say they’re not at risk, not everyone agrees with your risk calculus. I totally get the issue of isolating kids is a tough one and I’m not challenging your decisions, I’m reporting what people I know who have kids who are too young for vaccine/school have said about their concerns.

And actually my friend with the heart transplant lived a very active normal life pre-pandemic. Colds don’t normally kill people and they don’t kill someone with a heart transplant any more than they do anyone else. Lots of bacterial diseases can be treated effectively with antibiotics. Covid is actually different from colds or average common illnesses because in the absence of vaccines it actually can kill you. (Flu is obviously more dangerous than colds but to my knowledge the flu shot works for my friend.)

Wanting to hear only from “regular” people who aren’t willing to go back is like wondering why not everyone wants to fly first-class, and when being told not everyone can afford it, saying “oh, I only want to hear why people who can afford it don’t want to fly first class.” You’re kind of defining the actual problem out of existence.