Class of 2023 lucked out Forum
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
to get back on topic, do people actually think class of '23 is well positioned? or is there an actual chance that there are more no-offers this year than usual? and relatedly is class of '24 fucked and about to face the most competitive OCI in a while?
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Sullivan cancelled the program and paid them cash instead, but offered them.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:32 amWhat happened to '21 S&C summers?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:25 pm'21 S&C summers got the most fucked of any SA class in history imo
That post is such a gross exagerration of the worse thing that happened. NixonPeabody cancelled its program, didn't pay them, and didn't guarantee it would bring on its summers as associates. Fuck NixonPeabody. It's too bad people forget this. I gave them a 1 rating (lowest) on vault.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
this seems likelyAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:36 amto get back on topic, do people actually think class of '23 is well positioned? or is there an actual chance that there are more no-offers this year than usual? and relatedly is class of '24 fucked and about to face the most competitive OCI in a while?
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Pretty strong argument imo. I think 2020 might have had the best experience. Got full summer experience. Only COVID remote for the final semester of 3LOL so the novelty didn't wear off (plus P/F exams), got to take a remote bar exam, got to work entire first year of career remote. First year remote definitely has drawbacks but all-in-all, I think 2020 had the best balance of things being more convenient and novel than bad. I also know of some 2020 folks who got away with a LOT of slacking in Biglaw last year, raking in some big bucks while looking busy, while not actually being all that busy. Always good to see some folks profit over our corporate overlords from this miserable system, every once-in-awhile.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Also interested in this. I’m class of ‘23 with an SA lined up, but my grades dipped a bit (still above median). Am I bound to get no offered or cold offered?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:36 amto get back on topic, do people actually think class of '23 is well positioned? or is there an actual chance that there are more no-offers this year than usual? and relatedly is class of '24 fucked and about to face the most competitive OCI in a while?
And what practice groups are most recession-proof? Will transactional first-years be safer than litigation first-years? Obviously not the only thing I’ll base my choice off of, but it’s still helpful info.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
If you truly don't have a preference, go for transactional, but it is not worth overriding a preference to slightly increase your chances. You will probably be stuck with this decision for the balance of your professional career.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:36 pmAlso interested in this. I’m class of ‘23 with an SA lined up, but my grades dipped a bit (still above median). Am I bound to get no offered or cold offered?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:36 amto get back on topic, do people actually think class of '23 is well positioned? or is there an actual chance that there are more no-offers this year than usual? and relatedly is class of '24 fucked and about to face the most competitive OCI in a while?
And what practice groups are most recession-proof? Will transactional first-years be safer than litigation first-years? Obviously not the only thing I’ll base my choice off of, but it’s still helpful info.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Transactional because it's more recession-proof? Or transactional because of later career options? I understand that transactional is better for exits, but I'm specifically wondering about how it would fare in a possible recessionAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:54 pmIf you truly don't have a preference, go for transactional, but it is not worth overriding a preference to slightly increase your chances. You will probably be stuck with this decision for the balance of your professional career.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:36 pmAlso interested in this. I’m class of ‘23 with an SA lined up, but my grades dipped a bit (still above median). Am I bound to get no offered or cold offered?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:36 amto get back on topic, do people actually think class of '23 is well positioned? or is there an actual chance that there are more no-offers this year than usual? and relatedly is class of '24 fucked and about to face the most competitive OCI in a while?
And what practice groups are most recession-proof? Will transactional first-years be safer than litigation first-years? Obviously not the only thing I’ll base my choice off of, but it’s still helpful info.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Litigation is more recession proof than transactionalAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:56 pmTransactional because it's more recession-proof? Or transactional because of later career options? I understand that transactional is better for exits, but I'm specifically wondering about how it would fare in a possible recessionAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:54 pmIf you truly don't have a preference, go for transactional, but it is not worth overriding a preference to slightly increase your chances. You will probably be stuck with this decision for the balance of your professional career.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:36 pmAlso interested in this. I’m class of ‘23 with an SA lined up, but my grades dipped a bit (still above median). Am I bound to get no offered or cold offered?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:36 amto get back on topic, do people actually think class of '23 is well positioned? or is there an actual chance that there are more no-offers this year than usual? and relatedly is class of '24 fucked and about to face the most competitive OCI in a while?
And what practice groups are most recession-proof? Will transactional first-years be safer than litigation first-years? Obviously not the only thing I’ll base my choice off of, but it’s still helpful info.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Grades on a curve are relative. If your GPA bumped by 0.2, your peers' GPA also bumped. Firms know that and don't have bigger classes just because there are 30 people with 3.8 at Columbia instead of the usual 10.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:27 pmTo be fair, 2L Fall grades boosted my GPA by > 0.2 due to relaxed curves for upperlevel classes. Got into firms that probably wouldn't have given me a second look as a result of the pandemic.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
in terms of who got screwed, it's definitely 2022>>2021>>>2020Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:30 amSchool social events didn't happen at my law school, and private social events also kind didn't happen due to threatening emails from admin.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:07 amYou got to have social events, see your friends, and have an actual graduation. Your other points are fair, but this 3L point is dumb lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:37 pm@the above two anons
-the curve response is , but we still had to try like 1Ls for another semester
-boohoo about missing 3LOL when classes were online. We were all required to physically attend classes in 3L with masks which I'd argue is objectively worse than 3LOLing with your camera off
i think 2021 and 2022 are closer than 2021 is to 2020 in terms of degree of screwed. that said I think class of 2021 is going to be able to make up for their lost summer this summer more than 2022 will next year
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Depends on whether you like WFH. 2022 will be able to start work in the office and many people like that, especially when junior.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:16 pmin terms of who got screwed, it's definitely 2022>>2021>>>2020Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:30 amSchool social events didn't happen at my law school, and private social events also kind didn't happen due to threatening emails from admin.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:07 amYou got to have social events, see your friends, and have an actual graduation. Your other points are fair, but this 3L point is dumb lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:37 pm@the above two anons
-the curve response is , but we still had to try like 1Ls for another semester
-boohoo about missing 3LOL when classes were online. We were all required to physically attend classes in 3L with masks which I'd argue is objectively worse than 3LOLing with your camera off
i think 2021 and 2022 are closer than 2021 is to 2020 in terms of degree of screwed. that said I think class of 2021 is going to be able to make up for their lost summer this summer more than 2022 will next year
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Class of 2020 here. I think 2021 and 2022 had it worse than 2020, but it really sucked being at a firm that deferred until very late January and only paid a measly $10k advance. I missed out on like $40k in income from the fall and went into like $10k of credit card debt just to live (and that was with some help from my parents). My firm didn't even give us health insurance, and I have a chronic illness - thankfully my parents were willing to pay to keep me on their plan, but a couple of my peers had to get on COBRA. My firm also communicated horribly throughout the deferral and I was pretty convinced some of us would get let go before our start date. I never really got over this and ended up lateraling halfway through my first year (I had other, more important reasons, but I genuinely resented firm management/partners).
The ever changing bar exam was pretty stressful as well, especially because the economic rebound was not as clear at the time and I personally was worried my firm would not give me two tries if I failed due to some tech issue on the remote bar or something.
That being said, going remote and P/F for the last two months of 3L was pretty awesome. I was already 3LOL'ing, but I completely stopped caring at all after that and just worked out, played with my dog, drank, did some socially distant outdoor stuff with a couple friends, etc.
The ever changing bar exam was pretty stressful as well, especially because the economic rebound was not as clear at the time and I personally was worried my firm would not give me two tries if I failed due to some tech issue on the remote bar or something.
That being said, going remote and P/F for the last two months of 3L was pretty awesome. I was already 3LOL'ing, but I completely stopped caring at all after that and just worked out, played with my dog, drank, did some socially distant outdoor stuff with a couple friends, etc.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Ugh this is so accurate. I guess the only silver lining is that you're the first year in a while that can have a proper bar trip.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
True, most law students I know are itching to get in the office and work all nighters there, especially after a 3L where they were just hanging out and chilling all year.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:29 pmDepends on whether you like WFH. 2022 will be able to start work in the office and many people like that, especially when junior.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:16 pmin terms of who got screwed, it's definitely 2022>>2021>>>2020Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:30 amSchool social events didn't happen at my law school, and private social events also kind didn't happen due to threatening emails from admin.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:07 amYou got to have social events, see your friends, and have an actual graduation. Your other points are fair, but this 3L point is dumb lmaoAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:37 pm@the above two anons
-the curve response is , but we still had to try like 1Ls for another semester
-boohoo about missing 3LOL when classes were online. We were all required to physically attend classes in 3L with masks which I'd argue is objectively worse than 3LOLing with your camera off
i think 2021 and 2022 are closer than 2021 is to 2020 in terms of degree of screwed. that said I think class of 2021 is going to be able to make up for their lost summer this summer more than 2022 will next year
Last edited by Sad248 on Wed May 11, 2022 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Different anon, but I think the "2L Fall grades boosted" person is making a separate point. Lots of firms have "hard" GPA floors which vary by school and are used to filter people out at the screener stage — having an easier curve would make it easier to clear those minimums. (We do not know whether firms adjusted their typical GPA floors upwards when hiring in January 2021 to account for that.)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:10 pmGrades on a curve are relative. If your GPA bumped by 0.2, your peers' GPA also bumped. Firms know that and don't have bigger classes just because there are 30 people with 3.8 at Columbia instead of the usual 10.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:27 pmTo be fair, 2L Fall grades boosted my GPA by > 0.2 due to relaxed curves for upperlevel classes. Got into firms that probably wouldn't have given me a second look as a result of the pandemic.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
Obviously, your point that hiring is all relative still stands.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
oh yeah i forgot that class of 2021 got screwed on bar trips as well. yeah there's definitely an argument 2021 is as screwed as 2022Sad248 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 pmUgh this is so accurate. I guess the only silver lining is that you're the first year in a while that can have a proper bar trip.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
-
- Posts: 428548
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Original quoted anon here. Yeah, this was the point I was making. I suppose there is some speculation involved, but based on my T14's GPA data, it seems that some firms had soft GPA floors around 3.5-3.6. My 1L Fall GPA was below this by a healthy margin, and I don't think 1L Spring would have went any better for me (but again, who knows).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 pmDifferent anon, but I think the "2L Fall grades boosted" person is making a separate point. Lots of firms have "hard" GPA floors which vary by school and are used to filter people out at the screener stage — having an easier curve would make it easier to clear those minimums. (We do not know whether firms adjusted their typical GPA floors upwards when hiring in January 2021 to account for that.)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:10 pmGrades on a curve are relative. If your GPA bumped by 0.2, your peers' GPA also bumped. Firms know that and don't have bigger classes just because there are 30 people with 3.8 at Columbia instead of the usual 10.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:27 pmTo be fair, 2L Fall grades boosted my GPA by > 0.2 due to relaxed curves for upperlevel classes. Got into firms that probably wouldn't have given me a second look as a result of the pandemic.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
Obviously, your point that hiring is all relative still stands.
I agree that firms didn't increase SA sizes for c/o 2022, but I think the pool of applicants that they seriously considered was larger given that firms had less of an idea how to evaluate transcripts as a result of covid (especially for T14 schools that don't individually rank students). Sure firms can estimate individual rankings, but I think this would require many points of data that firms didn't have (or didn't care to assess) for one class year of applicants.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
OG anon that derailed the thread. I want to put this to bed. Looks like the consensus is '21 or '22 got most screwed and we've got a few holdouts saying it's '21. Let's break this down year-by-year.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 2:05 pmoh yeah i forgot that class of 2021 got screwed on bar trips as well. yeah there's definitely an argument 2021 is as screwed as 2022Sad248 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 pmUgh this is so accurate. I guess the only silver lining is that you're the first year in a while that can have a proper bar trip.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
Class of '21
-1L: normal Spring & Fall,
-OCI: still flown around the country on the firm's dime, NALP employment data shows a negligible drop from the BEST YEAR EVER of '20
-2L: normal Fall, PF Spring (basically early 3LOL), full offers and apparently unless you worked at Nixon Peabody you made bank for likely watching 2-3 weeks of videos
-3L: Zoom camera off "attendance" and most normal people were still doing shit with their friends outside (especially in Spring when vaccines rolled out)
-Graduation: remote work anywhere instead of an overpriced shitbox in NY, bid daddy government pauses your loans
Class of '22
-1L: normal fall, find out super late in a 1L semester it's P/F so we tried for nothing, OCI is cancelled
-2L: welcome to 2L grades mattering (yeah some schools have more gameable 2L curves but that's not the case everywhere & it doesn't negate the fact we all treated it as 1L extended), employment outcomes TBD
-OCI: hope you didn't experience technical difficulties in the most important interviews of your life lol, also all of the schools had a fucked timeline so some firms were already full by the time your school's OCI came around, if you struck out you're now double fucked because you find out in FEBRUARY OF 2L (this burned so many people that I know who struck out)
-2L Summer work: welcome to a full 10 weeks, oh and so many firms did a weird ass thing where they wanted/"offered" you to come in halfway into the semester, so all of us worked and many of us MOVED ACROSS THE COUNTRY halfway into the SA too
-3L: Omicron surge fall kills 3LOL vibe, required masked attendance so goodbye "video off"
-Graduation: oh cool firms are going back to the office and loans payments coming up, but hey at least we get a bar trip
It's not even close...
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Re the question about class of '24 - yeah I'm sorry to say that I think they're screwed. Class sizes way up, firms over hired '23. Even if (or especially if) firms keep all the 23s, they will overcorrect and plan for much smaller 24 class.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Not to rain on anyone's parade but we're going to see a round of layoffs later this year most likely if the market decline continues. If you're at Kirkland/Weil you'll be rotated to bankruptcy but if not then you're most likely screwed. Better hold on to your butts people because it's about to get bumpy...
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Right, just wanted to make sure people understand we didn't have a special benefit. And it cuts both ways. I worked really hard fall 2L but my dream firm had a hard cut-off (for callback) based on the fall 1L scores alone (they didn't consider fall 2L grades).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 2:08 pmOriginal quoted anon here. Yeah, this was the point I was making. I suppose there is some speculation involved, but based on my T14's GPA data, it seems that some firms had soft GPA floors around 3.5-3.6. My 1L Fall GPA was below this by a healthy margin, and I don't think 1L Spring would have went any better for me (but again, who knows).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:53 pmDifferent anon, but I think the "2L Fall grades boosted" person is making a separate point. Lots of firms have "hard" GPA floors which vary by school and are used to filter people out at the screener stage — having an easier curve would make it easier to clear those minimums. (We do not know whether firms adjusted their typical GPA floors upwards when hiring in January 2021 to account for that.)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:10 pmGrades on a curve are relative. If your GPA bumped by 0.2, your peers' GPA also bumped. Firms know that and don't have bigger classes just because there are 30 people with 3.8 at Columbia instead of the usual 10.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:27 pmTo be fair, 2L Fall grades boosted my GPA by > 0.2 due to relaxed curves for upperlevel classes. Got into firms that probably wouldn't have given me a second look as a result of the pandemic.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 9:49 pmThis is a troll thread so I don't care about derailing.
Class of '22 had the worst law school experience ever and I'll die on this useless hill:
-1L switches to online midway into Spring and we're told we're P/F like 3 weeks before finals
-lol at getting anything 1L summer unless you murdered it last fall
-2L fall grades suddenly matter since OCI is pushed to January
-none of the OCI or summer associate wine and dine, just burned retinas from influencer lights between interviews and awkward as fuck Zoom SA events
-3LOL is masked
-now graduate and take the bar and show up in office
Obviously, your point that hiring is all relative still stands.
I agree that firms didn't increase SA sizes for c/o 2022, but I think the pool of applicants that they seriously considered was larger given that firms had less of an idea how to evaluate transcripts as a result of covid (especially for T14 schools that don't individually rank students). Sure firms can estimate individual rankings, but I think this would require many points of data that firms didn't have (or didn't care to assess) for one class year of applicants.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
If firms tighten hiring, who will get cut first? Top of class T20s? Lower-in-class T14 kids? Bottom of HYS?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 2:54 pmRe the question about class of '24 - yeah I'm sorry to say that I think they're screwed. Class sizes way up, firms over hired '23. Even if (or especially if) firms keep all the 23s, they will overcorrect and plan for much smaller 24 class.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
I don't think it'll be that bad for C/O 2024. That's my class and at my t14 like 15% of 1Ls have SA positions and some of the people, myself included, have offers for the 2023 summer. I know a guy who got a '23 SA offer at the start of March. His grades/extracurrilars etc aren't anything insane either
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Wouldn't class of '22 be in a hard position if the economy goes south right now? The most junior, entering associates
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
Class of 2024 also has like much larger class sizes in CLS, NYU, UPenn, Duke, and Berkley which would only compound a potential bloodbath caused by a contraction in hiring.
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Re: Class of 2023 lucked out
why would you assume bottom of HYS? If anything they are supposed to be recession proof no?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:06 pmIf firms tighten hiring, who will get cut first? Top of class T20s? Lower-in-class T14 kids? Bottom of HYS?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 2:54 pmRe the question about class of '24 - yeah I'm sorry to say that I think they're screwed. Class sizes way up, firms over hired '23. Even if (or especially if) firms keep all the 23s, they will overcorrect and plan for much smaller 24 class.
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