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I want to hear your thoughts on biglaw hierarchy.

I can tolerate being told what to do by someone who is two years or more senior, but it annoys me when an associate who is one year senior to me tries to boss me around, and I would probably explode if I was a seasoned staff attorney with an asshole junior associate telling me what to do. I do not tell anyone who is in the same class year or one year lower what to do unless the request comes from a more senior lawyer.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 2:53 pm

I want to hear your thoughts on biglaw hierarchy.

I can tolerate being told what to do by someone who is two years or more senior, but it annoys me when an associate who is one year senior to me tries to boss me around, and I would probably explode if I was a seasoned staff attorney with an asshole junior associate telling me what to do. I do not tell anyone who is in the same class year or one year lower what to do unless the request comes from a more senior lawyer.

I think that's a pretty narrow and immature mindset, actually. Listening to a peer depends a lot on relative experience with the relevant task, not seniority on its own. For example if I have a lot of experience as (say) a 5th-year associate in writing appellate briefs but then happen to get staffed for whatever reason on trial prep with a 5th or even a 4thyear with much more trial exp than me, I have no problem taking some instructions from that person (how to divvy up work flows, for example, or go about accomplishing a task the partner assigned to the associates as a whole).

It's part a recognition that s/he's got valuable experience and insight that I don't, and we're on the same team; as long as it's done professionally, I should have no problem with this. You shouldn't get walked all over or "bossed around" but then that's true of associates more senior than you, too. So seniority isn't the relevant variable.

Yeah this is where not being a KJD is useful. It's very common in the real world to have younger people in senior positions, and some ppl just never make it to management throughout their careers. I was in a company where one person got promoted right over their boss's head. Bottom line: if you're in a workflow, you take direction from the person more senior to you. If that's someone a class year ahead, or someone a decade younger in a more senior position, who cares? if that makes you "explode" you're probably not cut out for corporate life.

Another thing -- you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe the fellow junior was asked by a partner to tell you to do it. I know I (junior) have been told by partners to go ask a staff attorney to do stuff. I'm nor ordering them around. The work needs to be done and I've been tasked as a go between.

This kind of rigid thinking is going to lead to trouble for you in the future. As the other posters mentioned, it's all contextual and there will be certain situations where someone equal or junior to you may direct you in some way. The real rule of thumb is to just treat other people with respect, whether you are taking orders from someone or giving someone orders.

When I was a first year, I had second years leading a team of fellow first years and contract attorneys in document review/privilege review. And then when I was a second year I turned around and did the same thing. There is a huge difference between a first year and a second year, especially on something where the second year has done it multiple times and the first year has done it zero times.

There are other contexts where someone who is just a year ahead of you will be telling you what to do. Often because they might be the most senior associate on the case and so the partner is deputizing them to deal with certain things.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 2:53 pm

I want to hear your thoughts on biglaw hierarchy.

I can tolerate being told what to do by someone who is two years or more senior, but it annoys me when an associate who is one year senior to me tries to boss me around, and I would probably explode if I was a seasoned staff attorney with an asshole junior associate telling me what to do. I do not tell anyone who is in the same class year or one year lower what to do unless the request comes from a more senior lawyer.

Were you a judicial clerk? Sometimes recent clerks need time to shake off the rigid hierarchy of the clerk-Judge relationship.

Anecdotally, I've bossed around a partner who offered to help on a big filing that I was in charge of. And I took orders from my assistant for that same filing because she knew exactly what needed to happen to have everything run smoothly. I agree that in general teams will organize into the hierarchy you suggest, but just take a chill pill when they don't because in those situations there's probably a really good reason to throw seniority aside. The fact that you don't see that reason suggests you're not senior enough to be making those calls.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 4:34 pm

Were you a judicial clerk? Sometimes recent clerks need time to shake off the rigid hierarchy of the clerk-Judge relationship.

My clerkship didn't involve the level of hierarchy I see in biglaw.

Responding to the title, partners are at the top of the hierarchy, then associates, then staff. I personally think staff attorneys should be treated as colleagues, but the fact is that they are more likely to be treated like paralegals.

OP, are you a junior associate? I felt like this too when I was a first/second year, but I realized once I became a midlevel that the learning that happens with each passing year is exponential.

As a midlevel, I now work on teams where we sometimes have first and second years staffed together. I don't mind it when the second year functions in more of a reviewing/advising capacity with the first year doing more of the on the ground work, so long as whatever gets filtered up to me is good work. The second year usually (not always) has more experience and it is noticeable.

JTIII wrote: ↑

Wed May 04, 2022 1:04 am

OP, are you a junior associate? I felt like this too when I was a first/second year, but I realized once I became a midlevel that the learning that happens with each passing year is exponential.

As a midlevel, I now work on teams where we sometimes have first and second years staffed together. I don't mind it when the second year functions in more of a reviewing/advising capacity with the first year doing more of the on the ground work, so long as whatever gets filtered up to me is good work. The second year usually (not always) has more experience and it is noticeable.

As a first year, sometimes second years are the best teachers -- they still remember what I don't have context for. Seniors/partners who just expect me to know things can be frustrating.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue May 03, 2022 2:53 pm

I want to hear your thoughts on biglaw hierarchy.

I can tolerate being told what to do by someone who is two years or more senior, but it annoys me when an associate who is one year senior to me tries to boss me around, and I would probably explode if I was a seasoned staff attorney with an asshole junior associate telling me what to do. I do not tell anyone who is in the same class year or one year lower what to do unless the request comes from a more senior lawyer.

There's a difference between dumping your work on someone else because you have one more year of seniority and delegating tasks to someone because you understand what needs to be done/are integrated into the deal/case and they aren't. The latter could indeed be reason to be miffed, but the former is just part of the biglaw game. If it's a relatively large matter, the team should be coordinating on responsibilities.