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1L here, potentially interested in restructuring. I understand the big-picture difference between what Creditor shops (PW, DPW, etc) and Debtor shops (KE/Weil) do, but how does that relate to what juniors do? Which side gives better training/which side is best to start out on? Which side typically produces more partners/better exit ops? I get the sense that debtor work is more like my Bankruptcy class, but what does that mean for work product?

Creditor side work is more like most bankruptcy classes. There are a lot of threads on here on this topic already that you would find helpful.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:26 pm

Creditor side work is more like most bankruptcy classes. There are a lot of threads on here on this topic already that you would find helpful.

See I looked through a bunch of old threads but relatively few talked about the difference in work product/experience at the junior level. Most were on the exit ops question.

Maybe a rephrase would be helpful: If I'm a first-year BK associate at a creditor shop, what am I doing? How does that differ from what the guy at the debtor shop down 7th av is doing? Ceteris paribus, who is getting better experience for a long-term career in bankruptcy?

Q: "Ceteris paribus, who is getting better experience for a long-term career in bankruptcy ? "

A: The one who learns the English language ? (All other things being equal, of course.)

CanadianWolf wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:32 pm

Q: "Ceteris paribus, who is getting better experience for a long-term career in bankruptcy ? "

A: The one who learns the English language ? (All other things being equal, of course.)

Of all the fields to complain about useless use of latin, lawyers have absolutely no leg to stand on.

I think the general view is that you will learn more about bankruptcy on any given debtor-side engagement than any comparable creditor-side engagement and that when you're first starting, it's better to be at a debtor shop. Much more common for people to spend 2-3 years debtor-side before going to a creditor practice. Point is, if you don't start at a debtor firm, you are less likely to ever work for one, whereas at a debtor firm you are more likely to either stay there or lateral to whatever creditor firm you want.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:24 pm

1L here, potentially interested in restructuring. I understand the big-picture difference between what Creditor shops (PW, DPW, etc) and Debtor shops (KE/Weil) do, but how does that relate to what juniors do? Which side gives better training/which side is best to start out on? Which side typically produces more partners/better exit ops? I get the sense that debtor work is more like my Bankruptcy class, but what does that mean for work product?

Putting aside the smooth-brained bickering on latin, the basic distinction is whether you want to be a true restructuring generalist or a finance specialist with an almost total focus on restructuring.

At a junior level, the Rx work is more analogous to what an M&A associate would do vs. what a lender-side finance associate does. The debtor team gets engaged by the company, you explore different options(and prepare work product on the same), and at a junior level it's a combination of memo writing (preparing analysis on venue, addressing whatever random legal quirk your situation has, releases, etc.) and preparing first day pleadings, which requires a lot of consultation with the company and restructuring advisors. The creditor team will work with the debtor team once definitive docs are underway, but at a junior level, you are assisting on the collateral review and debt review to see where gaps are, and when first day pleadings are available, you give them a check to make sure nothing obvious/stupid pops up.

Exit options are kind of what you want them to be - if you're great, I'd argue you have better than normal options - it's easier to exit to an investment desk/fund from restructuring because so much of a distressed investment thesis requires knowing how the restructuring rules and priority work, and you can pick up the math without too much difficulty. Lot of ex-restructuring lawyers at distressed shops and rx-focused banks, although those exits are heavily relationship and reputation-based so the exits tend to happen later, around 7th year (although some exit earlier). If you're bad, being at a top tier practice isn't going to save you because by the time you're a 5th year you should be a known commodity in the restructuring community, it's a small world. A mediocre/bad restructuring lawyer is going to have to exit out to a different shop and try and retool into something else to spend a couple more years on the hamster wheel before lateraling out inhouse. People talk about going inhouse at companies that emerge from BK but that is far less common than is discussed here, restructuring exits pre ~5-7th year are almost entirely other firms, post 5-7th year are when your options open up.

Partnership is a crap shoot - depends heavily on where you are, who your mentors are, where the economy is, etc.