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I'm in the process of making my first lateral. I've never dealt with the strange employment process whereby you are offered and accept a position, only to be subject to additional processes whereby your offer can be revoked. While I don't think conflicts or background is an issue, I'm worried about references.

I've only worked at one firm since graduation, and also worked there as summer. Every partner I've worked with in my group is still there. Thus, the only potential references I could give that have had any supervisory position during my time as an attorney are partners at my current firm. None know I'm leaving, and I'd like to keep it that way until notice is given if possible.

In this case, if the new firm insists on references, what is the normal way to respond in this situation? It seems strange that I need to give my current firm partners notice that I'm leaving for references prior to actually giving notice. Of course, there's the perverse incentive if they don't want to you leave they will not be a great reference. While I don't think references would give negative comments, I can't say 100% and feel like I'm being put into a position where I'm putting employment at both firms at risk to a degree.

Otherwise, I have no other supervisory references that are not 5+ years in my past and are not really good references at all for my work as an attorney. Do I use non-partner colleagues or seek waiver of the reference requirement? This is putting me in a weird position.

Honestly, to me, seeking a waiver of the reference process would look like you're trying to hide something. I don't think you want that.

I understand your concerns & think that the concerns are valid.

Did the new firm specify that references need to be from one in a supervisory role ?

Or did the firm just ask for professional references ?

My firm checked my references after I gave notice. Didn't ask for it, it was regular practice. I don't think it's crazy to ask for that, I didn't want my employer to know I was looking.

deathsaber99 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:36 am

My firm checked my references after I gave notice. Didn't ask for it, it was regular practice. I don't think it's crazy to ask for that, I didn't want my employer to know I was looking.

This is what doesn't make sense to me. It seems not only unnecessary and unreasonable to do so, but also unethical.

You've already hired the person. You told them they're clear to quit. Then you're hanging their employment on references from their current employer. What if the partners are spiteful and leave a bad review? What if you're leaving because of toxic partners or hostile work environment? Even if those factors aren't present, it's weird to ask for references from a place you're quitting. You've now quit your job, and are placing in peril to some extent the new one based on the outcome of the review? Doesn't make much sense but maybe I'm missing something.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 04, 2022 11:05 am

deathsaber99 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:36 am

My firm checked my references after I gave notice. Didn't ask for it, it was regular practice. I don't think it's crazy to ask for that, I didn't want my employer to know I was looking.

This is what doesn't make sense to me. It seems not only unnecessary and unreasonable to do so, but also unethical.

You've already hired the person. You told them they're clear to quit. Then you're hanging their employment on references from their current employer. What if the partners are spiteful and leave a bad review? What if you're leaving because of toxic partners or hostile work environment? Even if those factors aren't present, it's weird to ask for references from a place you're quitting. You've now quit your job, and are placing in peril to some extent the new one based on the outcome of the review? Doesn't make much sense but maybe I'm missing something.

It's weird but this is extremely common, for the very reasons that the OP outlined in their post.

When I lateraled it was agreed that no one would contact my references until after I had a formal offer and had cleared conflicts, and I had given notice, and I told the new firm once I had given notice so they would know they were free to contact my references. The references the firm I was leaving provided were fairly general - most firms have a policy where they will not say anything negative, or that they will not give a formal reference and that they'll just confirm dates of employment. Getting the reference doesn't make a ton of sense but it is what it is. OP, don't let them check your references until after you give notice. It's extremely standard to do it this way, and I can't imagine you'll get pushback from the new firm by asking them to wait until you have given notice.

Do you actually have to put partners from your current firm? I'd just put law school friends or friends from my class at the firm who already quit down as references.