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Anon for obvious reasons.

I'm a 3L finishing up my last semester at a non-T6 T14. My grades are quite high, but rather than running the OCI gauntlet for a V5 or a V10, I chose to stay with my 1L SA firm, a mid-V100 in a non-NYC locale. It felt chiller than most firms, pays market, and I generally liked the people I met over my two summers. However, over this past school year, I've had some doubts as to whether I made the right decision longterm. Specifically, I've heard more in that time about how much firm selection affects later career outcomes and perceptions of ability. And I've become less sure that the advertised chill vibes of my firm aren't just puffery. I don't really know what I expect to get from this question, but there's a lot of knowledge on this forum, and I think there could be potential benefits to others too in pitching this question:

Did I make a career mistake in not shooting for higher ranked firms through OCI? Would it be possible to lateral up in a few years, if so? Should 1L SAs be careful about just jumping at their 1L SA firm if they are well-positioned to move up?

Ideally, I'd love for you all to tell me I'm a silly little idiot getting cold feet. Maybe I am; but also, maybe I'm not.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:00 pm

Anon for obvious reasons.

I'm a 3L finishing up my last semester at a non-T6 T14. My grades are quite high, but rather than running the OCI gauntlet for a V5 or a V10, I chose to stay with my 1L SA firm, a mid-V100 in a non-NYC locale. It felt chiller than most firms, pays market, and I generally liked the people I met over my two summers. However, over this past school year, I've had some doubts as to whether I made the right decision longterm. Specifically, I've heard more in that time about how much firm selection affects later career outcomes and perceptions of ability. And I've become less sure that the advertised chill vibes of my firm aren't just puffery. I don't really know what I expect to get from this question, but there's a lot of knowledge on this forum, and I think there could be potential benefits to others too in pitching this question:

Did I make a career mistake in not shooting for higher ranked firms through OCI? Would it be possible to lateral up in a few years, if so? Should 1L SAs be careful about just jumping at their 1L SA firm if they are well-positioned to move up?

Ideally, I'd love for you all to tell me I'm a silly little idiot getting cold feet. Maybe I am; but also, maybe I'm not.

first, congrats! you're almost at the finish line, only a few months left! you got this!

kind of hard to say whether you made a mistake without knowing what the cost of undergoing OCI would have been. assuming 0, then yeah it probably would have been worth to do a light OCI. if you liked your 1L firm, you could have just done a few interviews. you would have been able to try out another firm while doing a touchback, then decide. it's fine though, so long as you finish 3L reasonably strong, you'll definitely be able to lateral.

First, you can't do anything about past choices right now. So instead of asking if it was a mistake to not do OCI and just stick with your 1L firm, I think it would be best to focus on what you want out of your career, and figure out where you can get those opportunities. Do you want to stay in your secondary market, or do you want the NYC experience? Do you want maximum experience in a certain area in case you want to move in house in 3-4 years? Do you want to maximize your compensation and your current firm doesn't offer that? If you are really just worried that you missed the chance to say you worked at _____ elite firm, I don't think that door is closed forever. You'll likely have a bunch of opportunities to lateral after you get some experience - your practice area and if you want to relocate are probably more likely to be the factors that matter. If your secondary market is pretty small, being at a firm that's based in that city can be an advantage when looking to lateral within your city to a top ranked NYC-based firm (people in that office will understand the local prestige and why a person would have chosen to go to one of the top local firms). I really think you haven't closed off as many options as you think.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:00 pm

I'm a 3L finishing up my last semester at a non-T6 T14.

This is a meaningless distinction for a 3L to be making. You can stop now. Welcome to the profession.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:00 pm

a V5 or a V10.

Also meaningless if the V5 is not Wachtell.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:00 pm

rather than running the OCI gauntlet for a V5 or a V10, I chose to stay with my 1L SA firm, a mid-V100 in a non-NYC locale.

Now this, the distinction between any of the V10 and a mid-V100 is a meaningful distinction. There is a difference in hours expectations and a statistically significant correlation between being a V10 and having top financial metrics. Look at the overlap between the top of the AM100 and V10. Do the same with the mid-V100s, and you see the difference.

I think this distinction does matter to your career, but is not determinative. Many people start at the V10 and lateral down after 2-3 years. I think firms being "chill" is puffery and I'm surprised anyone smart enough to get into law school believes it, even if some firms have lower hours requirements.

You probably made a mistake but you can fix it. I’d send out some apps now and given how busy things are someone might bite. If that doesn't work you can look to lateral asap, just pick a practice group that top firms would want (m&a, cm etc.)

What is your end game? Cushy corporate in house? Partnership with a life? Government work? It's hard to say whether this was a "mistake" (ignoring lateral opportunities) without knowing what you want. It could be a distinction without a difference.

Not as extreme as you, but I passed on offers from a handful of NYC V10s in favor of a secondary market home office where I knew I wanted to end up long term. Career services told me that with my goals, there was absolutely no benefit to spending 2-3 years at a V10 in NYC only to lateral to a firm in a secondary market that I already had an offer to work for.

That said, I'm not in corporate, and I'd rather stick around for partnership in a local firm if I can (even if it's not my V20). I think the advice would have been different if that were not the case.

To dispel another common law student misconception that may be at play here: laterals from NYC V10s are not magically given a leg up for partnership when they lateral to some regional or lower ranked shop. Partnership is considered on a case by case basis, and often times the home grown associates have a leg up by virtue of impressing more people for longer.

I'm pretty shocked at some of the responses here. OP is probably going to like, a V70 or something, not some no-name mid-sized firm.

OP, I made a similar decision while in law school. I did not return to my 1L firm, but I chose my 2L firm entirely based on culture/people and did not consider prestige, exit options, etc., in part because I am physically unable to work V10 hours and had absolutely zero interest in doing so as long as I was paid the same. I figured a less prestigious firm where I liked the people would give me a better lifestyle (which, in my case, ended up being correct). My experience is as follows:

1. The clients of the firm matter way more for in-house options than the vault ranking or relative "prestige" of the firm. Fenwick/WSGR/Gunderson/Perkins/etc. will set you up much better for tech exits than say, Kirkland or Sullivan and Cromwell.

2. For geographical and culture reasons (not the hours, but the people and overall culture of the firm), I decided to lateral as a first year. I had no problem getting lateral interviews for firms way higher up in the V100 and ended up lateraling to a V30?ish firm. If you want to lateral "up", you can do so.

3. The people and the hours have been SIGNIFICANTLY better than the people and hours at various NYC V10ish firms that my friends are at. Obviously, this might not be your experience. I have a friend at a firm outside of the V100 in a secondary market who is working just as harder as my friends at V10s for less pay. But, I do think the hours and intensity of the V10 are particularly brutal and you can have a much better experience in biglaw outside of those firms. I'd also note that if you can last 1-2 more years (or more) at a firm where you are billing say, 2000, than you could at a firm where you are billing 2500, then you will be in a better position financially and for getting good in-house offers.

You did not make a mistake. You will be fine. You can lateral, if you'd like. If you don't, you'll still have in-house opportunities later on down the line. All will be well.

FWIW, I have never regretted my decisions at ALL and am so much happier than I would have been if I had just gone to the most prestigious/fancy firm.

Try not to sweat it. Even if you did, you can always rectify after the fact. After clerking, I returned to a West Coast boutique I'd liked a great deal as a summer. For a variety of reasons, it felt like a totally different place, and I was miserable pretty much from day one. Lateraled to a NY V10 pretty easily in a practice area that has been slower than most.

OP, don't believe the prestige whores in this thread (unless you are one). If so: yes, you messed up majorly.

If not: you're going to make the same amount of money for less work with less pressure than your peers at V10 firms. They'll be burning out while you're having a vacation. Ask any person on the street, and they would pick your position. Of course, you will be less attractive on the market. But again, it depends on what you want. Do you want to be working at Wachtell, Apple, and become a AUSA? Or just work at a V50 firm, work at a smaller multinational, and a less prestigious government agency?

I chose the second option. I work to live. My career helps me achieve what I want. Again, if you want to look back on life and be proud of the money you made the largest firms and businesses in the world, then yeah, you messed up.

That being said, I would always do OCI, just because having more options is always good, and I think it's just a fun experience.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:53 pm

You probably made a mistake but you can fix it. I’d send out some apps now and given how busy things are someone might bite. If that doesn't work you can look to lateral asap, just pick a practice group that top firms would want (m&a, cm etc.)

OP, TITCR if you are not convinced by the sane voices here and think you may regret it for the rest of your life.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:53 pm

You probably made a mistake but you can fix it. I’d send out some apps now and given how busy things are someone might bite. If that doesn't work you can look to lateral asap, just pick a practice group that top firms would want (m&a, cm etc.)

OP, TITCR if you are not convinced by the sane voices here and think you may regret it for the rest of your life.

LOL best troll I've seen in a long time.