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I am a second year at V50 M&A and have had an ok experience in the group so far.

What has been the most challenging has been the sheer unpredictability of the job. Whether it be unexpected requests on a Friday evening to be turned over the weekend, late weekday nights to rush to get something out by morning only to have a morning full of more fire-drills, it truly feels very feast or famine. When I’m busy I am slammed, but during my down periods I have weeks of very little.

I’ve spoken to colleagues in other groups both within and outside the firm, and it seems as if this is typical for deal based groups. I thought this was specific to M&A, but finance and capital markets attorneys I’ve spoken to report feeling similar. Because these groups are deal focused, there tends to be more unpredictability based on the deal requests. It seems as if this doesn’t get much better as you get more senior in these groups, as unpredictability and being able to handle it / manage your team through it all are the name of the game for upward mobility in these groups.

I do enjoy the job and the work and I like the colleagues, but I am worried the unpredictability is burning me out. If I could work a good 60-70 hours during the week but have a more predictable timeline and have fewer Friday evenings / weekend plans blown up that would be what im looking for in corporate.

My question is are there non-deal based groups in corporate where there is more predictability, and what are some of your experiences? The last thing I want to do is burn out, and I’ve heard banking groups in particular have more predictable workloads due to less deal based work. I am curious as to whether there are more and peoples experiences in both deal and non deal based corporate groups.

There’s general corporate (mostly company counseling) and ECVC that seem to have more predictable hours.

2013 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 11, 2022 11:30 pm

There’s general corporate (mostly company counseling) and ECVC that seem to have more predictable hours.

Fifth year ECVC associate who also does some M&A and I can absolutely confirm that the unpredictability is always present in our practice. It is equally feast/famine but worse than M&A because of the sheer volume of deals. I have had times where I’m staffed on six financings and you lose time to transitioning between the few and simultaneous deadlines suck. My days are consistent billed to 5+ matters which is super painful. When I’m on M&A deals fly by. Plus the “easy” nature of VC deals makes clients think it shouldn’t be hard to close it in two weeks since we’re all agreeing it’s NVCA terms, what’s the hold up. Additionally, the startup clients are less sophisticated and there’s a lot of hand holding and more coaching of the client involved which takes a lot of energy and time that could be spent getting the actual work done. Lastly, the M&A teams have more staffing so more coverage whereas ECVC is usually very leanly staffed, for me it’s usually me and one junior if I’m lucky and the partner so it’s all on me to make sure it gets done among my six deals leading the way. Also I would look at the other threads where ppl in ECVC talk about how they leave a lot of unbilled hours on the table; hitting your hours in this practice sucks and takes more energy than in M&A in my experience.

I’m also a corporate junior who has struggled with this and have considered moving to ECB or a regulatory practice supporting corporate (like antitrust deal work) - I think there is still some unpredictability but the upside is that you’re not on the team managing/quarterbacking the deal.

Consider switching to funds work like private funds. The formation work and fundraising is typically more predictable and spans a long time, so there is less last minute matters. If you get a Friday email it can usually wait until Monday, unless you're in a closing.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 pm

Consider switching to funds work like private funds. The formation work and fundraising is typically more predictable and spans a long time, so there is less last minute matters. If you get a Friday email it can usually wait until Monday, unless you're in a closing.

Second this

Fund formation is arguably the top non-transactional practice in terms of the combination of work life balance and market growth. Most of your fundraising projects are spread over multiple months rather than weeks. This practice is also extremely lucrative for law firms given the ever expanding cap on legal fees on a typical fundraise.

As a midlevel I've billed between 1900-2200 hours over the last several years and I can count on one hand the number of weekends per year where I work more than 1-2 hours or the number of months where I've billed over 200 hours.

It's niche, but construction transactional work is a bit less feast-or-famine than other corporate groups. Plus you typically get to negotiate the deals on behalf of the client, which is interesting work. It's not an easy transition, but if your firm is busy (as most are) you may be able to move over.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:44 pm

I’m also a corporate junior who has struggled with this and have considered moving to ECB or a regulatory practice supporting corporate (like antitrust deal work) - I think there is still some unpredictability but the upside is that you’re not on the team managing/quarterbacking the deal.

My ECB practice is very deal based, and it will be at most firms that pay market. We have more deals we need to juggle, and we don’t find out until the last minute about changes, so it’s actually less predictable than people think.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 pm

Consider switching to funds work like private funds. The formation work and fundraising is typically more predictable and spans a long time, so there is less last minute matters. If you get a Friday email it can usually wait until Monday, unless you're in a closing.

Second this

Fund formation is arguably the top non-transactional practice in terms of the combination of work life balance and market growth. Most of your fundraising projects are spread over multiple months rather than weeks. This practice is also extremely lucrative for law firms given the ever expanding cap on legal fees on a typical fundraise.

As a midlevel I've billed between 1900-2200 hours over the last several years and I can count on one hand the number of weekends per year where I work more than 1-2 hours or the number of months where I've billed over 200 hours.

Would love to hear what firms you work at (feel free to DM) - this is not my experience at all. It beats M&A/finance (fewer late nights), but try 2400-2900, working more weekends than not and billing 200 isn't even considered busy anymore. (I'm not at KE)

MarcusH wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 pm

Consider switching to funds work like private funds. The formation work and fundraising is typically more predictable and spans a long time, so there is less last minute matters. If you get a Friday email it can usually wait until Monday, unless you're in a closing.

Second this

Fund formation is arguably the top non-transactional practice in terms of the combination of work life balance and market growth. Most of your fundraising projects are spread over multiple months rather than weeks. This practice is also extremely lucrative for law firms given the ever expanding cap on legal fees on a typical fundraise.

As a midlevel I've billed between 1900-2200 hours over the last several years and I can count on one hand the number of weekends per year where I work more than 1-2 hours or the number of months where I've billed over 200 hours.

Would love to hear what firms you work at (feel free to DM) - this is not my experience at all. It beats M&A/finance (fewer late nights), but try 2400-2900, working more weekends than not and billing 200 isn't even considered busy anymore. (I'm not at KE)

Are you at Debevoise/Simpson?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:30 pm

MarcusH wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 pm

Consider switching to funds work like private funds. The formation work and fundraising is typically more predictable and spans a long time, so there is less last minute matters. If you get a Friday email it can usually wait until Monday, unless you're in a closing.

Second this

Fund formation is arguably the top non-transactional practice in terms of the combination of work life balance and market growth. Most of your fundraising projects are spread over multiple months rather than weeks. This practice is also extremely lucrative for law firms given the ever expanding cap on legal fees on a typical fundraise.

As a midlevel I've billed between 1900-2200 hours over the last several years and I can count on one hand the number of weekends per year where I work more than 1-2 hours or the number of months where I've billed over 200 hours.

Would love to hear what firms you work at (feel free to DM) - this is not my experience at all. It beats M&A/finance (fewer late nights), but try 2400-2900, working more weekends than not and billing 200 isn't even considered busy anymore. (I'm not at KE)

Are you at Debevoise/Simpson?

Nope...

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 19, 2022 12:06 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:30 pm

MarcusH wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 pm

Consider switching to funds work like private funds. The formation work and fundraising is typically more predictable and spans a long time, so there is less last minute matters. If you get a Friday email it can usually wait until Monday, unless you're in a closing.

Second this

Fund formation is arguably the top non-transactional practice in terms of the combination of work life balance and market growth. Most of your fundraising projects are spread over multiple months rather than weeks. This practice is also extremely lucrative for law firms given the ever expanding cap on legal fees on a typical fundraise.

As a midlevel I've billed between 1900-2200 hours over the last several years and I can count on one hand the number of weekends per year where I work more than 1-2 hours or the number of months where I've billed over 200 hours.

Would love to hear what firms you work at (feel free to DM) - this is not my experience at all. It beats M&A/finance (fewer late nights), but try 2400-2900, working more weekends than not and billing 200 isn't even considered busy anymore. (I'm not at KE)

Are you at Debevoise/Simpson?

Nope...

Sounds like cleary

People gotta realize, you set your own hours. Just turn down work. Once you realize only 1% of people make partner, and you are generally only at a firm 3 years, its easy.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:14 pm

People gotta realize, you set your own hours. Just turn down work. Once you realize only 1% of people make partner, and you are generally only at a firm 3 years, its easy.

At my V10 seems less than 2 is norm