Kirkland Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Some basic questions about NSP:

1. What's the typical comp?

2. How many hours are you expecting to bill?

I am a senior associate at a V50 firm and am being recruited for a KE NSP (litigation). Right now I make 550k (top of Cravath scale with bonus included) and bill ~2000 hours a year; it's really not that bad. And my firm culture is good.

Wondering if I can do 2-3 years at KE at 2000 hours as a lit NSP or if they'll boot me if I'm not at 2600 or whatever.

I am in Kirkland lit and can help answer some of these.

1. Typical comp = Big Law associate comp + a tiny bump. All-in, given recent changes to make up for perceived drawbacks, there is no material difference between a typical KE NSP and a senior associate at, say, SullCrom, Paul Weiss, etc. There are some older NSPs who have negotiated pay structures that are above market, but they have been NSPs for like 5+ years, will never make SP, and are well-liked, and so have bespoke packages. You're not getting this package unless you're already BFFs with like Andrew Kassoff in Chi or Sandra Goldstein in NY.

2. A LOT. Senior associates at Kirkland Lit typically bill around 2300/year easily; as a new NSP, you'd be expected to bill more than that while establishing relationships with key SPs. 2000 hours as an NSP would be noticeably low and raise eyebrows.

Without knowing more about your situation, seems like an easy choice to avoid this lateral move, especially in litigation.

Thank you (finally) for an honest and helpful answer! -OP

[Anonymous User]

I'm a transactional midlevel at a peer firm considering lateraling to KE; I had a positive relationship with a few people who lateraled over and would enjoy working with them again. But my firm doesn't do a lot of cross-office work, and I understand that's far more common at KE (like having associates from New York / Houston / Chicago on the same team). For people who lateraled in - is this an issue? Or is this a nothingburger because we're all used to remote work and you can just pick up the phone. (I've found it very helpful to actually get to know my teams a bit - the occasional coffee, the ~5 minutes in the office before a call kicks off, etc; that's what I'm thinking about.)

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

I can absolutely guarantee that people at Wachtell don’t see it that way.

[Anonymous User]

Anon considering lateraling. Are you all like this?

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

I called Kirkland a peer firm because, in my practice area, they are. The fact that Kirkland is Band 1 in "Environment: Mainly Transactional," "Government Relations: Congressional Investigations," "International Trade: Export Controls & Economic Sanctions," "Product Liability: Automobile," and "Product Liability: Tobacco" doesn't somehow put Kirkland on a pedestal for a New York transactional lawyer. Chill out.

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

I can absolutely guarantee that people at Wachtell don’t see it that way.

I can absolutely guarantee that Netanyahu doesn't think he's committing genocide, I can absolutely guarantee Putin thinks Ukraine belongs to Russia, I can absolutely guarantee Trump thinks he did nothing wrong on Jan. 6

Mod Note: User CondescendingLiberal outed for Anon abuse. Since this is a repeat issue, user will get a temp ban.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland doesn't even pay above market bonuses anymore.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland doesn't even pay above market bonuses anymore.

SCOTUS clerkships pay less than Milbank. Guess which one is better?

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

Until K&E is able to get the top HYS students in the way WLRK/W&C/MTO are, this is simply wrong.

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

LOL? Listen, I am at Kirkland. No one -- and I mean NO ONE -- thinks Kirkland is anywhere close to WLRK.

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

Def not WLRK...but Cravath? Idk why Cravath is put on such a pedestal still; they've essentially ended everything at the firm that made them special (moving from lockstep partner comp -> variable partner comp -> adding nonequity tier, all within the past two years). Partners leave Cravath now at pretty much the same rate they jump off any firm, they aren't market leaders for comp, nor do they really top any league tables consistently.

Obviously CSM is still a great firm, no denying that, but not sure that it's the King of law firms the way it once was.

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

If by "they" you mean 3Ls, then yes. No doubt the above was horrific, but it's also pretty clearly written by a child.

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

Def not WLRK...but Cravath? Idk why Cravath is put on such a pedestal still; they've essentially ended everything at the firm that made them special (moving from lockstep partner comp -> variable partner comp -> adding nonequity tier, all within the past two years). Partners leave Cravath now at pretty much the same rate they jump off any firm, they aren't market leaders for comp, nor do they really top any league tables consistently.

Obviously CSM is still a great firm, no denying that, but not sure that it's the King of law firms the way it once was.

What makes them special is the prestige, which is probably a product of history, the rotation system, the training, being Band 1 in every major practice group, and being the market trend-setter. Truly the V1

[The Lsat Airbender]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

inserting CSM into this convo was a masterstroke, well done

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

If by "they" you mean 3Ls, then yes. No doubt the above was horrific, but it's also pretty clearly written by a child.

The only thing Wachtell has over Kirkland is pay. Don't get me wrong, pay is important. But no one from either firm has any trouble paying off loans within 3 years. In every way that matters (you know, actual work and firm quality), Kirkland is far superior to Wachtell. Higher deal volume, better training, more band 1 practice groups, more firm resources, the list goes on. WLRK is an outstanding M&A boutique, but let's not make it better than that. Kirkland is a juggernaut.

[Anonymous User]

And yet K&E struggles to attract top HYS students, and the ones they get for the summer almost all flee to clerkships and then to boutiques.

Not hating on K&E btw, but at least from the student perspective it’s the definition of the worst aspects of biglaw—large, unwieldy, and unlikely to give you substantive experience in the way a boutique will.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a transactional midlevel at a peer firm considering lateraling to KE; I had a positive relationship with a few people who lateraled over and would enjoy working with them again. But my firm doesn't do a lot of cross-office work, and I understand that's far more common at KE (like having associates from New York / Houston / Chicago on the same team). For people who lateraled in - is this an issue? Or is this a nothingburger because we're all used to remote work and you can just pick up the phone. (I've found it very helpful to actually get to know my teams a bit - the occasional coffee, the ~5 minutes in the office before a call kicks off, etc; that's what I'm thinking about.)

Anyone who can answer my question instead of dicking around about prestige?

[Anonymous User]

And yet K&E struggles to attract top HYS students, and the ones they get for the summer almost all flee to clerkships and then to boutiques.

Not hating on K&E btw, but at least from the student perspective it’s the definition of the worst aspects of biglaw—large, unwieldy, and unlikely to give you substantive experience in the way a boutique will.

Not the anon you're responding to, but how do you explain K&E DC? Easily one of the best DC offices of any firm.

[Anonymous User]

And yet K&E struggles to attract top HYS students, and the ones they get for the summer almost all flee to clerkships and then to boutiques.

Not hating on K&E btw, but at least from the student perspective it’s the definition of the worst aspects of biglaw—large, unwieldy, and unlikely to give you substantive experience in the way a boutique will.

Not the anon you're responding to, but how do you explain K&E DC? Easily one of the best DC offices of any firm.

From a student's perspective I think Wil/Cov/W&C/A&P etc (not even to mention the true appellate kingpins like J&B) all pretty handily beat K&E in the eyes of the HYS crowd, especially without the draw of Clement for the conservatives.

[Anonymous User]

why is the barometer for the prestige of a law firm how “HYS students feel” about a particular firm? The only people who care about this are juniors who went to HYS and current law students

not even a commentary on Kirkland, just a general note. Also, the KE/WLRK comment is clearly bait folks.

[The Lsat Airbender]

why is the barometer for the prestige of a law firm how “HYS students feel” about a particular firm? The only people who care about this are juniors who went to HYS and current law students

the most important aspect of choosing a firm at OCI is whether the YLS/HLS girls on Hinge will want to date me

[Anonymous User]

why is the barometer for the prestige of a law firm how “HYS students feel” about a particular firm? The only people who care about this are juniors who went to HYS and current law students

the most important aspect of choosing a firm at OCI is whether the YLS/HLS girls on Hinge will want to date me

That would demonstrate poor judgment in more than one way.

[Anonymous User]

why is the barometer for the prestige of a law firm how “HYS students feel” about a particular firm? The only people who care about this are juniors who went to HYS and current law students

not even a commentary on Kirkland, just a general note. Also, the KE/WLRK comment is clearly bait folks.

If prestige is on your side, pound Vault;

if breadth and depth of quality are on your side, pound Chambers;

if profits are on your side, pound AMLAW;

if none of these are on your side, pound the career decisions of 24 year-old fart sniffers.

[Anonymous User]

why is the barometer for the prestige of a law firm how “HYS students feel” about a particular firm? The only people who care about this are juniors who went to HYS and current law students

not even a commentary on Kirkland, just a general note. Also, the KE/WLRK comment is clearly bait folks.

If prestige is on your side, pound Vault;

if breadth and depth of quality are on your side, pound Chambers;

if profits are on your side, pound AMLAW;

if none of these are on your side, pound the career decisions of 24 year-old fart sniffers.

I just spat out my cereal, lmao