Kirkland Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Don't know enough about Rx to reject your claim. It does seem like the people who want lit but don't have the grades end up in Rx.

LOL @ the claim that RX people are just folks that couldn't get lit. If that were true, I'd feel bad for the poor souls that end up in RX. There's not enough 'lit' in the practice to justify that. Ridiculous.

Yeah that's a weird take. In my experience people who end up in RX are looking either like working with distressed companies or want some hybrid of lit and corp. We're definitely not like the litigators (and I thank god for that everyday lmfao)

It would also be a very stupid decision to enter into RX merely because you want a practice incorporating some litigation. IMO it's not a practice area for the faint of heart. Especially debtor side work. Working in RX without a sincere interest in bankruptcy seems like a very poor idea. GPAs in RX are not as competitive as in litigation (obviously) but the GPAs seem to be higher than corporate, and in general, the practice seems to attract intellectually curious individuals.

[Anonymous User]

What happens if after becoming a Kirkland NSP, you don't get chosen to be a share partner? When you lateral to another firm, do you get paid the same or more as an associate? what happens if you don't become a partner at the firm you lateral to? do you hop to yet another firm? Basically, I'm wondering how long you can keep making a senior associate salary. What's typical in this situation?

[Anonymous User]

What happens if after becoming a Kirkland NSP, you don't get chosen to be a share partner? When you lateral to another firm, do you get paid the same or more as an associate? what happens if you don't become a partner at the firm you lateral to? do you hop to yet another firm? Basically, I'm wondering how long you can keep making a senior associate salary. What's typical in this situation?

Of the last 10 or so NSPs in my group who didn't make shares, all have equity at other Vault firms except for 1 who went in house. Generally speaking, if you're good enough to last that long at Kirkland, you have a decent chance of landing somewhere with equity / real shot at equity.

It may vary across groups, but that's been my observation.

[Anonymous User]

What happens if after becoming a Kirkland NSP, you don't get chosen to be a share partner? When you lateral to another firm, do you get paid the same or more as an associate? what happens if you don't become a partner at the firm you lateral to? do you hop to yet another firm? Basically, I'm wondering how long you can keep making a senior associate salary. What's typical in this situation?

Of the last 10 or so NSPs in my group who didn't make shares, all have equity at other Vault firms except for 1 who went in house. Generally speaking, if you're good enough to last that long at Kirkland, you have a decent chance of landing somewhere with equity / real shot at equity.

It may vary across groups, but that's been my observation.

Good to know. Is your experience in corporate? If anyone from restructuring could chime in too that would be helpful.

[Anonymous User]

What happens if after becoming a Kirkland NSP, you don't get chosen to be a share partner? When you lateral to another firm, do you get paid the same or more as an associate? what happens if you don't become a partner at the firm you lateral to? do you hop to yet another firm? Basically, I'm wondering how long you can keep making a senior associate salary. What's typical in this situation?

Of the last 10 or so NSPs in my group who didn't make shares, all have equity at other Vault firms except for 1 who went in house. Generally speaking, if you're good enough to last that long at Kirkland, you have a decent chance of landing somewhere with equity / real shot at equity.

It may vary across groups, but that's been my observation.

Do you actually know they have equity? Lot of firms it's not clear from the outside. Or even inside.

[Anonymous User]

A number of really good NSPs in rx that left recently still do not have shares at their new firms. It’s not true that you can just lateral to shares, best case scenario they put you on a contract where they review after a year or so for shares. Staying til the bitter end of NSP can just make the share track longer than if you left a couple years prior. And getting shares at any firm is about business. Kirkland NSP surely does look good on your resume but if you’re not able to attract and bring in business you won’t get shares at any firm regardless of how you look on paper.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming summer to Chicago, technically hired into one group but might be interested in another group in a different vertical (e.g., corp/rx, lit/rx, rx/lit etc). How flexible is the open assignment system for summers? How would that impact assignments as a first year?

[Anonymous User]

Incoming summer to Chicago, technically hired into one group but might be interested in another group in a different vertical (e.g., corp/rx, lit/rx, rx/lit etc). How flexible is the open assignment system for summers? How would that impact assignments as a first year?

So basically you're hired into rx and are interested in exploring corporate or lit as well.

Corp/rx is easier to do than rx/lit. 10 weeks go by very, very fast. There is a central database where you can browse through assignments and choose which ones you take. There are summers that are formally split and doing corp/rx or rx/lit (though the latter is uncommon).
And there are those that are informally splitting. If you're hired into rx and have made no indication of interest in other groups to recruiting, you can still do corporate assignments through the summer, just pick them from the database. You'll be informally splitting your summer.

However, at the end of the summer you will get an offer from one group. Either rx, lit, or corporate. If you're not a formal splitter, but informally doing work in multiple groups, you need to clarify what group you're interested in before the last week of your summer program. You'll get an offer for one group. No guarantee that as a rx hire wanting to do lit, you'll get lit. Also groups get a say in how good of a fit you are so keep that in mind as you interact with attorneys.

I was a split summer at the Chicago office not too long ago. Can answer any follow up questions you have.

Edit: forgot to add, keep in mind that rx has a summer trip to NY for a restructuring competition with investment bankers. This is for those officially in the rx group.

Lit has the summer KITA competition / program. You have to formally be in the lit group to participate.

Corporate is much more flexible and they have a mock negotiation but basically anyone can participate if you just speak with recruiting. No formal summer split required.

[Anonymous User]

A number of really good NSPs in rx that left recently still do not have shares at their new firms. It’s not true that you can just lateral to shares, best case scenario they put you on a contract where they review after a year or so for shares. Staying til the bitter end of NSP can just make the share track longer than if you left a couple years prior. And getting shares at any firm is about business. Kirkland NSP surely does look good on your resume but if you’re not able to attract and bring in business you won’t get shares at any firm regardless of how you look on paper.

A number of rx NSPs recently left? In NY or chicago? How many? I've only observed mostly mid year and senior associates leaving in rx.

Also I'm not the person you're responding to but I think the one year evaluation period prior to shares when lateraling is obvious/implied.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming summer to Chicago, technically hired into one group but might be interested in another group in a different vertical (e.g., corp/rx, lit/rx, rx/lit etc). How flexible is the open assignment system for summers? How would that impact assignments as a first year?

So basically you're hired into rx and are interested in exploring corporate or lit as well.

Corp/rx is easier to do than rx/lit. 10 weeks go by very, very fast. There is a central database where you can browse through assignments and choose which ones you take. There are summers that are formally split and doing corp/rx or rx/lit (though the latter is uncommon).
And there are those that are informally splitting. If you're hired into rx and have made no indication of interest in other groups to recruiting, you can still do corporate assignments through the summer, just pick them from the database. You'll be informally splitting your summer.

However, at the end of the summer you will get an offer from one group. Either rx, lit, or corporate. If you're not a formal splitter, but informally doing work in multiple groups, you need to clarify what group you're interested in before the last week of your summer program. You'll get an offer for one group. No guarantee that as a rx hire wanting to do lit, you'll get lit. Also groups get a say in how good of a fit you are so keep that in mind as you interact with attorneys.

I was a split summer at the Chicago office not too long ago. Can answer any follow up questions you have.

Edit: forgot to add, keep in mind that rx has a summer trip to NY for a restructuring competition with investment bankers. This is for those officially in the rx group.

Lit has the summer KITA competition / program. You have to formally be in the lit group to participate.

Corporate is much more flexible and they have a mock negotiation but basically anyone can participate if you just speak with recruiting. No formal summer split required.

Damn I'm trying to do rx/lit. I'll touch base with recruiting, see if I can do something formal, but otherwise just try and max on lit work for the summer. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Damn I'm trying to do rx/lit. I'll touch base with recruiting, see if I can do something formal, but otherwise just try and max on lit work for the summer. Thanks!

If you were hired for the litigation group, it's much easier to do lit/rx, than if you were hired into the rx group.

I believe there was one summer in Chicago last year that did both rx and lit, but I think he was hired for lit initially. I would definitely ask recruiting as soon as possible.

[Anonymous User]

What happens if after becoming a Kirkland NSP, you don't get chosen to be a share partner? When you lateral to another firm, do you get paid the same or more as an associate? what happens if you don't become a partner at the firm you lateral to? do you hop to yet another firm? Basically, I'm wondering how long you can keep making a senior associate salary. What's typical in this situation?

Of the last 10 or so NSPs in my group who didn't make shares, all have equity at other Vault firms except for 1 who went in house. Generally speaking, if you're good enough to last that long at Kirkland, you have a decent chance of landing somewhere with equity / real shot at equity.

It may vary across groups, but that's been my observation.

Absolutely insane that this person claims to know that 9/10 NSPs in their group lateraled directly to equity. How do you have so many best friends?

[Anonymous User]

Several were forced out in 2021 in rx. Not sure if you are more junior and weren’t there or what. Even with a one year look back, I know at least two of them are still on review for shares and didn’t get it this year and they’re pretty known in the field. There’s also a few current NSPs, including one that’s doing extremely well on a huge case, where its already been decided they are not getting shares and it’s just a matter of time before they’re forced out.

[Anonymous User]

If you want to do bankruptcy lit you should look at a group like WilmerHale. KE rx won’t give you that, and you cannot just specialize in rx lit as a junior. You can take on a lot of rx work especially as rx picks up but you will also have to work on other non-rx cases.

[Anonymous User]

Several were forced out in 2021 in rx. Not sure if you are more junior and weren’t there or what. Even with a one year look back, I know at least two of them are still on review for shares and didn’t get it this year and they’re pretty known in the field. There’s also a few current NSPs, including one that’s doing extremely well on a huge case, where its already been decided they are not getting shares and it’s just a matter of time before they’re forced out.

You said "a number of rx NSPs left recently". I inquired about the office location and the number of NSPs as I hadn't heard of many leaving "recently".

2021 is not recent by any reasonable use of that term in this context.

[Anonymous User]

If you want to do bankruptcy lit you should look at a group like WilmerHale. KE rx won’t give you that, and you cannot just specialize in rx lit as a junior. You can take on a lot of rx work especially as rx picks up but you will also have to work on other non-rx cases.

Nah, I'm comparing general commercial lit vs restructuring. I thought RX sounded cool during recruiting, but talking to professors I think I'd like lit more.

[Anonymous User]

Several were forced out in 2021 in rx. Not sure if you are more junior and weren’t there or what. Even with a one year look back, I know at least two of them are still on review for shares and didn’t get it this year and they’re pretty known in the field. There’s also a few current NSPs, including one that’s doing extremely well on a huge case, where its already been decided they are not getting shares and it’s just a matter of time before they’re forced out.

You said "a number of rx NSPs left recently". I inquired about the office location and the number of NSPs as I hadn't heard of many leaving "recently".

2021 is not recent by any reasonable use of that term in this context.

Not the person you responded to, but it was both Chicago and NY, believe 4 were out and only one person made shares. It was kind of a whole thing when it happened (obviously). The decision would have been made winter of 2020 and people trickled out in early 2021. So not recent as in the other day but still fresh in people's mind for those who were around at the time.

[Anonymous User]

Several were forced out in 2021 in rx. Not sure if you are more junior and weren’t there or what. Even with a one year look back, I know at least two of them are still on review for shares and didn’t get it this year and they’re pretty known in the field. There’s also a few current NSPs, including one that’s doing extremely well on a huge case, where its already been decided they are not getting shares and it’s just a matter of time before they’re forced out.

You said "a number of rx NSPs left recently". I inquired about the office location and the number of NSPs as I hadn't heard of many leaving "recently".

2021 is not recent by any reasonable use of that term in this context.

Not the person you responded to, but it was both Chicago and NY, believe 4 were out and only one person made shares. It was kind of a whole thing when it happened (obviously). The decision would have been made winter of 2020 and people trickled out in early 2021. So not recent as in the other day but still fresh in people's mind for those who were around at the time.

Brutal. In M&A but I remember how overwhelmingly busy RX was during spring/summer of 2020, just to get shown the door a few months later.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW I’ve been getting spammed with recruiter emails letting me know KE is hiring litigation midlevels between 3rd and 6th years.

[Anonymous User]

How do you all feel about beating Wachtell in PPP? Still waiting to beat them RPL before you celebrate?

[Anonymous User]

How do you all feel about beating Wachtell in PPP? Still waiting to beat them RPL before you celebrate?

I’m happy about it even as an associate who gains nothing financially. Tired of constantly being told how my firm is on the verge of collapse from over-expansion, is actually secretly shitty, etc. All last year the peanut gallery was declaring confidently that Kirkland was in big financial trouble because they overhired and now that the market cooled, was doomed.

Well, now the numbers for that same time period are out, and it turns out they were wrong. Look at the fucking scoreboard, Kirkland is now not only #1 for revenue (which of course is largely a function of size) but also PPEP, beating out a firm that is like 15x smaller and works its associates 50% harder. Where’s all that “Kirkland is actually in financial trouble in 2022” energy now that the numbers are here? Especially funny when most of our peers (aka the firms where the haters work) suffered significant drops in the face of Kirkland’s increases.

Now, of course, the chorus is “well Kirkland is now in financial trouble in Q1 2023” and when the actual numbers get released and prove them wrong, they’ll instead be talking shit about Kirkland in 2024. Ugh.

Look, there are plenty of legitimate things you can criticize Kirkland for. It’s far from perfect. But the firm is really really really good at raking in money and has been putting extreme pressure on the rest of BigLaw for over a decade now financially (to such an extreme degree that the entire rest of the market have had to fundamentally change their business model and even internal operations and compensation policies to try and compete). They hired a bajillion associates and STILL beat all you bitches in both revenue and PPEP, even with that crazy headcount.

You can say that Kirkland are dicks, or that the NSP system sucks, or whatever other critique. But please kindly shut the fuck up about the firm’s financial health and success in business because we are now the clear #1 across all relevant metrics and frankly heralding the demise of Kirkland’s business model in the face of continued record-breaking results just makes you look stupid and jealous.

[lawlo]

How do you all feel about beating Wachtell in PPP? Still waiting to beat them RPL before you celebrate?

I’m happy about it even as an associate who gains nothing financially. Tired of constantly being told how my firm is on the verge of collapse from over-expansion, is actually secretly shitty, etc. All last year the peanut gallery was declaring confidently that Kirkland was in big financial trouble because they overhired and now that the market cooled, was doomed.

Well, now the numbers for that same time period are out, and it turns out they were wrong. Look at the fucking scoreboard, Kirkland is now not only #1 for revenue (which of course is largely a function of size) but also PPEP, beating out a firm that is like 15x smaller and works its associates 50% harder. Where’s all that “Kirkland is actually in financial trouble in 2022” energy now that the numbers are here? Especially funny when most of our peers (aka the firms where the haters work) suffered significant drops in the face of Kirkland’s increases.

Now, of course, the chorus is “well Kirkland is now in financial trouble in Q1 2023” and when the actual numbers get released and prove them wrong, they’ll instead be talking shit about Kirkland in 2024. Ugh.

Look, there are plenty of legitimate things you can criticize Kirkland for. It’s far from perfect. But the firm is really really really good at raking in money and has been putting extreme pressure on the rest of BigLaw for over a decade now financially (to such an extreme degree that the entire rest of the market have had to fundamentally change their business model and even internal operations and compensation policies to try and compete). They hired a bajillion associates and STILL beat all you bitches in both revenue and PPEP, even with that crazy headcount.

You can say that Kirkland are dicks, or that the NSP system sucks, or whatever other critique. But please kindly shut the fuck up about the firm’s financial health and success in business because we are now the clear #1 across all relevant metrics and frankly heralding the demise of Kirkland’s business model in the face of continued record-breaking results just makes you look stupid and jealous.

Please please please be satire.

[Sackboy]

It's most definitely not.

[Anonymous User]

How do you all feel about beating Wachtell in PPP? Still waiting to beat them RPL before you celebrate?

I’m happy about it even as an associate who gains nothing financially. Tired of constantly being told how my firm is on the verge of collapse from over-expansion, is actually secretly shitty, etc. All last year the peanut gallery was declaring confidently that Kirkland was in big financial trouble because they overhired and now that the market cooled, was doomed.

Well, now the numbers for that same time period are out, and it turns out they were wrong. Look at the fucking scoreboard, Kirkland is now not only #1 for revenue (which of course is largely a function of size) but also PPEP, beating out a firm that is like 15x smaller and works its associates 50% harder. Where’s all that “Kirkland is actually in financial trouble in 2022” energy now that the numbers are here? Especially funny when most of our peers (aka the firms where the haters work) suffered significant drops in the face of Kirkland’s increases.

Now, of course, the chorus is “well Kirkland is now in financial trouble in Q1 2023” and when the actual numbers get released and prove them wrong, they’ll instead be talking shit about Kirkland in 2024. Ugh.

Look, there are plenty of legitimate things you can criticize Kirkland for. It’s far from perfect. But the firm is really really really good at raking in money and has been putting extreme pressure on the rest of BigLaw for over a decade now financially (to such an extreme degree that the entire rest of the market have had to fundamentally change their business model and even internal operations and compensation policies to try and compete). They hired a bajillion associates and STILL beat all you bitches in both revenue and PPEP, even with that crazy headcount.

You can say that Kirkland are dicks, or that the NSP system sucks, or whatever other critique. But please kindly shut the fuck up about the firm’s financial health and success in business because we are now the clear #1 across all relevant metrics and frankly heralding the demise of Kirkland’s business model in the face of continued record-breaking results just makes you look stupid and jealous.

you're getting a 1 this year - share partner

[legalpotato]

How do you all feel about beating Wachtell in PPP? Still waiting to beat them RPL before you celebrate?

I’m happy about it even as an associate who gains nothing financially. Tired of constantly being told how my firm is on the verge of collapse from over-expansion, is actually secretly shitty, etc. All last year the peanut gallery was declaring confidently that Kirkland was in big financial trouble because they overhired and now that the market cooled, was doomed.

Well, now the numbers for that same time period are out, and it turns out they were wrong. Look at the fucking scoreboard, Kirkland is now not only #1 for revenue (which of course is largely a function of size) but also PPEP, beating out a firm that is like 15x smaller and works its associates 50% harder. Where’s all that “Kirkland is actually in financial trouble in 2022” energy now that the numbers are here? Especially funny when most of our peers (aka the firms where the haters work) suffered significant drops in the face of Kirkland’s increases.

Now, of course, the chorus is “well Kirkland is now in financial trouble in Q1 2023” and when the actual numbers get released and prove them wrong, they’ll instead be talking shit about Kirkland in 2024. Ugh.

Look, there are plenty of legitimate things you can criticize Kirkland for. It’s far from perfect. But the firm is really really really good at raking in money and has been putting extreme pressure on the rest of BigLaw for over a decade now financially (to such an extreme degree that the entire rest of the market have had to fundamentally change their business model and even internal operations and compensation policies to try and compete). They hired a bajillion associates and STILL beat all you bitches in both revenue and PPEP, even with that crazy headcount.

You can say that Kirkland are dicks, or that the NSP system sucks, or whatever other critique. But please kindly shut the fuck up about the firm’s financial health and success in business because we are now the clear #1 across all relevant metrics and frankly heralding the demise of Kirkland’s business model in the face of continued record-breaking results just makes you look stupid and jealous.

LOL

Dear Anon Associate,

Thank you very much for grinding away your life and soul for us. Unfortunately, I know you have been putting up big hours and you just closed a big deal and were hoping for a little time off, but we are going to need you to drop all of your weekend plans and help us markup this bid draft for a client that just came in today and is due Monday morning. And then after that, we are going to go ahead and stealth you so that we can continue to stay #1 across all financial metrics. After all, Calder's new Aspen mansion is not going to pay for itself.

I know that staying #1 is the most important to you, so your severance will just be the fact that you being laid off is helping us stay at #1.

Best,

Ballis & The Exec Committee