Kirkland Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

[Anonymous User]

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

Uh, what? Tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator?

I'm a senior lit associate and have worked in both a V10 firm and a boutique. So I care about high-quality work, as well as managing up and down the chain, getting good work from juniors, etc. Unless you can point me to some genuine examples of situations in which litigation needs to be in person (outside actual trial contexts), you're flat out wrong.

What do litigators do?

1 - Basic legal research
2 - Draft briefs
3 - Review documents using vendor platforms
4 - Take notes during interviews/second-chair depositions
5 - Draft outlines for depositions/exam/cross-exams
6 - Prepare decks for powerpoint presentations to clients
7 - Review contracts to help assess run-of-the mill requests on the transactional side, like employee lawsuits or breach-of-K cases
8 - Brainstorming trial or brief-writing strategy

How much of this involves in-person "training" from seniors or partners, as opposed to sending a draft up the chain and then reviewing/implementing the redline and comments back down the chain? Obviously #4 and #8 (though Zoom is fine for that if it's only occasionally). What else you got?

Literally the only time office work makes *more* sense is when a team needs to grind through a doc review project in-person rather than thru a vendor platform b/c the docs need to stay in the room. (And obviously, genuine trial prep when you're going to trial is a different beast, not nearly as common as 1-7 above.)

Again, tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator.

[Anonymous User]

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

Uh, what? Tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator?

I'm a senior lit associate and have worked in both a V10 firm and a boutique. So I care about high-quality work, as well as managing up and down the chain, getting good work from juniors, etc. Unless you can point me to some genuine examples of situations in which litigation needs to be in person (outside actual trial contexts), you're flat out wrong.

What do litigators do?

1 - Basic legal research
2 - Draft briefs
3 - Review documents using vendor platforms
4 - Take notes during interviews/second-chair depositions
5 - Draft outlines for depositions/exam/cross-exams
6 - Prepare decks for powerpoint presentations to clients
7 - Review contracts to help assess run-of-the mill requests on the transactional side, like employee lawsuits or breach-of-K cases
8 - Brainstorming trial or brief-writing strategy

How much of this involves in-person "training" from seniors or partners, as opposed to sending a draft up the chain and then reviewing/implementing the redline and comments back down the chain? Obviously #4 and #8 (though Zoom is fine for that if it's only occasionally). What else you got?

Literally the only time office work makes *more* sense is when a team needs to grind through a doc review project in-person rather than thru a vendor platform b/c the docs need to stay in the room. (And obviously, genuine trial prep when you're going to trial is a different beast, not nearly as common as 1-7 above.)

Again, tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator.

That's what you're doing as a senior lit associate?

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

[Anonymous User]

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

Uh, what? Tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator?

I'm a senior lit associate and have worked in both a V10 firm and a boutique. So I care about high-quality work, as well as managing up and down the chain, getting good work from juniors, etc. Unless you can point me to some genuine examples of situations in which litigation needs to be in person (outside actual trial contexts), you're flat out wrong.

What do litigators do?

1 - Basic legal research
2 - Draft briefs
3 - Review documents using vendor platforms
4 - Take notes during interviews/second-chair depositions
5 - Draft outlines for depositions/exam/cross-exams
6 - Prepare decks for powerpoint presentations to clients
7 - Review contracts to help assess run-of-the mill requests on the transactional side, like employee lawsuits or breach-of-K cases
8 - Brainstorming trial or brief-writing strategy

How much of this involves in-person "training" from seniors or partners, as opposed to sending a draft up the chain and then reviewing/implementing the redline and comments back down the chain? Obviously #4 and #8 (though Zoom is fine for that if it's only occasionally). What else you got?

Literally the only time office work makes *more* sense is when a team needs to grind through a doc review project in-person rather than thru a vendor platform b/c the docs need to stay in the room. (And obviously, genuine trial prep when you're going to trial is a different beast, not nearly as common as 1-7 above.)

Again, tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator.

That's what you're doing as a senior lit associate?

Yeah I thought this was an interesting list and read more like a junior associates task set or something a 3L would come up with. As a litigation NSP I spend most of my time on the phone talking and arguing with people and then flying places (or Zooming) to argue with people either in a court or a nondescript conference room lmfao

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

I'm fine with a gradual RTO. My goal is to get in 3 days a week too. If the firm leaves me be I'll get there over time assuming no major COVID shutdown again. If they start doing anything draconian I'll just ignore it or if push / shove walk; lateral market is still hot and not interested in being treated like a child. That said I doubt the rumors (about strict enforcement) are true; it would be totally against KE culture to start doing an attendance check; it's probably just bored associates rumormongering.

[Anonymous User]

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

Uh, what? Tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator?

I'm a senior lit associate and have worked in both a V10 firm and a boutique. So I care about high-quality work, as well as managing up and down the chain, getting good work from juniors, etc. Unless you can point me to some genuine examples of situations in which litigation needs to be in person (outside actual trial contexts), you're flat out wrong.

What do litigators do?

1 - Basic legal research
2 - Draft briefs
3 - Review documents using vendor platforms
4 - Take notes during interviews/second-chair depositions
5 - Draft outlines for depositions/exam/cross-exams
6 - Prepare decks for powerpoint presentations to clients
7 - Review contracts to help assess run-of-the mill requests on the transactional side, like employee lawsuits or breach-of-K cases
8 - Brainstorming trial or brief-writing strategy

How much of this involves in-person "training" from seniors or partners, as opposed to sending a draft up the chain and then reviewing/implementing the redline and comments back down the chain? Obviously #4 and #8 (though Zoom is fine for that if it's only occasionally). What else you got?

Literally the only time office work makes *more* sense is when a team needs to grind through a doc review project in-person rather than thru a vendor platform b/c the docs need to stay in the room. (And obviously, genuine trial prep when you're going to trial is a different beast, not nearly as common as 1-7 above.)

Again, tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator.

10+ years of lit experience here, but thanks buddy. I didn't say what I thought, I said what the conventional wisdom is.

[Anonymous User]

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

Uh, what? Tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator?

I'm a senior lit associate and have worked in both a V10 firm and a boutique. So I care about high-quality work, as well as managing up and down the chain, getting good work from juniors, etc. Unless you can point me to some genuine examples of situations in which litigation needs to be in person (outside actual trial contexts), you're flat out wrong.

What do litigators do?

1 - Basic legal research
2 - Draft briefs
3 - Review documents using vendor platforms
4 - Take notes during interviews/second-chair depositions
5 - Draft outlines for depositions/exam/cross-exams
6 - Prepare decks for powerpoint presentations to clients
7 - Review contracts to help assess run-of-the mill requests on the transactional side, like employee lawsuits or breach-of-K cases
8 - Brainstorming trial or brief-writing strategy

How much of this involves in-person "training" from seniors or partners, as opposed to sending a draft up the chain and then reviewing/implementing the redline and comments back down the chain? Obviously #4 and #8 (though Zoom is fine for that if it's only occasionally). What else you got?

Literally the only time office work makes *more* sense is when a team needs to grind through a doc review project in-person rather than thru a vendor platform b/c the docs need to stay in the room. (And obviously, genuine trial prep when you're going to trial is a different beast, not nearly as common as 1-7 above.)

Again, tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator.

That's what you're doing as a senior lit associate?

Yeah I thought this was an interesting list and read more like a junior associates task set or something a 3L would come up with. As a litigation NSP I spend most of my time on the phone talking and arguing with people and then flying places (or Zooming) to argue with people either in a court or a nondescript conference room lmfao

Previous two posters missed the point entirely, which is to draw up a list of tasks even junior litigators do, to illustrate the point that those tasks can be done/managed/provided "training" just as effectively from home.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

I'm fine with a gradual RTO. My goal is to get in 3 days a week too. If the firm leaves me be I'll get there over time assuming no major COVID shutdown again. If they start doing anything draconian I'll just ignore it or if push / shove walk; lateral market is still hot and not interested in being treated like a child. That said I doubt the rumors (about strict enforcement) are true; it would be totally against KE culture to start doing an attendance check; it's probably just bored associates rumormongering.

Really hope you’re right. It’s a pretty awesome place to work on a limited RTO basis so long as you can navigate the free market. Plenty of work to get involved in, not too much oversight, and good comp.

[Anonymous User]

In Houston at least, they didn’t really enforce face time before Covid, so I’d be surprised if they started doing it now. Of course, as with all things BigLaw it depends heavily on the partners/seniors you work for directly and their expectations. I doubt Kirkland as a whole would enforce, but a few specific partners might. If you work with cross-office teams (as many of us do), who would even know you weren’t there?

If you're a partner in NYC sitting, e.g., on the 45th floor, you can walk around and easily see which associates are not there and usually never there. And in litigation, it's a small enough group that you notice. As others have said, it would be particularly stupid to enforce RTO for litigators because the whole "in-person training" is total bullshit and we can do our jobs just as if not more effectively either WFH or choosing to come in on select days, rather than specific mandatory days a week.

But yeah, guess "enforcement" depends on whether the partners in your group care enough to say something, make future assignments, or rate your EOY review partially based on stuff like that.

It's pretty funny that associates are trying to meme "litigation is done most effectively from home" into existence. The traditional wisdom is the opposite -- corporate work is fine to do remotely, but litigation needs to be in person.

Uh, what? Tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator?

I'm a senior lit associate and have worked in both a V10 firm and a boutique. So I care about high-quality work, as well as managing up and down the chain, getting good work from juniors, etc. Unless you can point me to some genuine examples of situations in which litigation needs to be in person (outside actual trial contexts), you're flat out wrong.

What do litigators do?

1 - Basic legal research
2 - Draft briefs
3 - Review documents using vendor platforms
4 - Take notes during interviews/second-chair depositions
5 - Draft outlines for depositions/exam/cross-exams
6 - Prepare decks for powerpoint presentations to clients
7 - Review contracts to help assess run-of-the mill requests on the transactional side, like employee lawsuits or breach-of-K cases
8 - Brainstorming trial or brief-writing strategy

How much of this involves in-person "training" from seniors or partners, as opposed to sending a draft up the chain and then reviewing/implementing the redline and comments back down the chain? Obviously #4 and #8 (though Zoom is fine for that if it's only occasionally). What else you got?

Literally the only time office work makes *more* sense is when a team needs to grind through a doc review project in-person rather than thru a vendor platform b/c the docs need to stay in the room. (And obviously, genuine trial prep when you're going to trial is a different beast, not nearly as common as 1-7 above.)

Again, tell me you're not a litigator without telling me you're not litigator.

That's what you're doing as a senior lit associate?

Yeah I thought this was an interesting list and read more like a junior associates task set or something a 3L would come up with. As a litigation NSP I spend most of my time on the phone talking and arguing with people and then flying places (or Zooming) to argue with people either in a court or a nondescript conference room lmfao

Previous two posters missed the point entirely, which is to draw up a list of tasks even junior litigators do, to illustrate the point that those tasks can be done/managed/provided "training" just as effectively from home.

It started with "what do litigators do?"

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

A two-year on ramp? Why?

Seems to me like the firm wants to get this policy off the ground before the summer class shows up, and then really have it going before the first years arrive in September. They don't want them to even realize that we have had flexibility that they're now trying to roll back.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

A two-year on ramp? Why?

Seems to me like the firm wants to get this policy off the ground before the summer class shows up, and then really have it going before the first years arrive in September. They don't want them to even realize that we have had flexibility that they're now trying to roll back.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

But in any case, it’s up to us to empower first years to never show up in office.

[Anonymous User]

Does KE clawback non-prorated signing bonuses if you lateral to in-house?

I think officially yes but in practice probably no, because they out a lot of effort into maintaining “alumni” relations and placing someone in-house is advantageous to the firm in the long term. I wouldn’t 1000% rely on that, but that’s my sense of it.

Any insights or anecdotes about clawbacks after laterals to big fed? Would it be any different between say SEC/USAO and some random regulatory agency?

[Anonymous User]

Does KE clawback non-prorated signing bonuses if you lateral to in-house?

I think officially yes but in practice probably no, because they out a lot of effort into maintaining “alumni” relations and placing someone in-house is advantageous to the firm in the long term. I wouldn’t 1000% rely on that, but that’s my sense of it.

Any insights or anecdotes about clawbacks after laterals to big fed? Would it be any different between say SEC/USAO and some random regulatory agency?

The firm loves when people move over to the government, especially from the white collar group. It's seen as a great relationship for the firm to have and it also makes the person a valuable (potential) recruit in the future to come back as an NSP or even share partner once they've been seasoned. Unless this is a really egregious instance (join the firm and leave for DOJ 3 months later) I don't see them exercising any sort of clawback in that circumstance.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

A two-year on ramp? Why?

Seems to me like the firm wants to get this policy off the ground before the summer class shows up, and then really have it going before the first years arrive in September. They don't want them to even realize that we have had flexibility that they're now trying to roll back.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

But in any case, it’s up to us to empower first years to never show up in office.

With a two year rto on ramp, would many of the laterals step foot in the office? Anyone have any stats for the lateral attrition rate?

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

A two-year on ramp? Why?

Seems to me like the firm wants to get this policy off the ground before the summer class shows up, and then really have it going before the first years arrive in September. They don't want them to even realize that we have had flexibility that they're now trying to roll back.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

But in any case, it’s up to us to empower first years to never show up in office.

With a two year rto on ramp, would many of the laterals step foot in the office? Anyone have any stats for the lateral attrition rate?

Unclear what you’re getting at, but anecdotally, the laterals are particularly unhappy with RTO. Feels like folks keep pushing lateral integration as a reason for RTO, but doubt there is data to support that. Don’t think the laterals have even been asked for their opinions (at least in a way that might elicit honest answers, eg, anonymous survey).

[musafir]

Any associates in KE's Project Finance group know if the group is currently hiring?

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard rumors that Kirkland will actually start enforcing the Tuesday-Thursday in-office policy. If true, would you leave?

They really sold laterals on Kirkland not being “a face time kind of place”. I’m a Kirkland Kool-Aid drinker, but I’m not sure that’s a bait and switch I can live with.

I also lateralled to Kirkland within the past year. I asked a lot of people what the best estimate of the RTO policy would be, and I heard from partners all the way down to associates that it was not a "face-time-for-the sake-of-face-time" place before the pandemic, and wouldn't be after. If they do this bait-and-switch, I'd be royally annoyed and would consider leaving as well. I know a few other folks would, too (some of whom are considered "superstars" in the NY office).

It's one thing to strongly recommend coming in Tues-Thurs. It's another to start enforcing it in a way that disrupts workflow and needlessly aggravates people.

the firm needs to realize RTO is a minimum 24 month ramp up. I’m fine to start coming in one day a week starting 2022/2023 with a gradual transition in 2024 to 2-3 days.

A two-year on ramp? Why?

Seems to me like the firm wants to get this policy off the ground before the summer class shows up, and then really have it going before the first years arrive in September. They don't want them to even realize that we have had flexibility that they're now trying to roll back.

I think you missed the sarcasm.

But in any case, it’s up to us to empower first years to never show up in office.

With a two year rto on ramp, would many of the laterals step foot in the office? Anyone have any stats for the lateral attrition rate?

Unclear what you’re getting at, but anecdotally, the laterals are particularly unhappy with RTO. Feels like folks keep pushing lateral integration as a reason for RTO, but doubt there is data to support that. Don’t think the laterals have even been asked for their opinions (at least in a way that might elicit honest answers, eg, anonymous survey).

Laterals have no rights anyways, so whatever. See you all back in the office!

[Anonymous User]

Yeah sorry Kirkland isn’t sending you Surveys laterals. The six figure sign on bonus will have to do.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah sorry Kirkland isn’t sending you Surveys laterals. The six figure sign on bonus will have to do.

Well played, well played

[Anonymous User]

What's the dress code in the Chicago office looking like post-pandemic? Shirt/slacks/dress shoes? Blazers? Jeans?

[Anonymous User]

What's the dress code in the Chicago office looking like post-pandemic? Shirt/slacks/dress shoes? Blazers? Jeans?

Everyone is in head to toe Gucci these days.

[Anonymous User]

What's the dress code in the Chicago office looking like post-pandemic? Shirt/slacks/dress shoes? Blazers? Jeans?

Bump. What should summers at KE Chicago expect in terms of dress? Is the vibe more formal or laid back? Would wearing a suit as a female be too formal? is it only appropriate on the first day?

[Anonymous User]

What's the dress code in the Chicago office looking like post-pandemic? Shirt/slacks/dress shoes? Blazers? Jeans?

Bump. What should summers at KE Chicago expect in terms of dress? Is the vibe more formal or laid back? Would wearing a suit as a female be too formal? is it only appropriate on the first day?

Higher end business casual. Nice non-suit dress slacks with a blazer and a nice dress shirt. The Blazer is really just for going to events or lunch though and I'm just talking if you want to look "nice" - plenty of people just go dress shirt. Also very common to do the investment banker zip up vest or quarter zip. Arguably more challenging than a suit sans tie, which is common in NY but not at all common in Chicago. You will look out of place if you wear a suit to work every day, but if I remember my summer correctly, it was a fairly common look because law students just don't have that many dress clothes laying around, so it's 100% not something to stress about. Will also say that after my first pay check I did go out and buy like $1000 of nice dress shirts, pants, and some budget blazers though (but that's a me thing and not at all expected).

[Anonymous User]

[Butchered an edit mods please remove]