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I absolutely despise my biglaw job that I lateraled to a few months ago. My main partner is an absolute nightmare screamer and she literally haunts my dreams and waking hours. I just can't handle it anymore and it's not worth it for me. I have a 1 year old that I've basically spent next to zero time with since I've been absurdly busy since the pandemic started.

I lateraled a few months ago because I thought it would make things better and they've just gotten so much worse. I'm planning on quitting, taking a 6 month or so sabbatical to spend time with my son that I never got after he was born, but want to see if anyone had ever done so previously and whether they were able to get back to biglaw after. I'm sure firms will be curious why I left and I'm planning on being up front with them because at this rate, I really don't think I can survive toughing it out. I was actually hospitalized for a heart issue not too long ago that was stress induced and given that I'd love for my son to have a mother while growing up, I've decided that it's just no longer worth it to stay. Curious if anyone has had experience with this.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:34 pm

I absolutely despise my biglaw job that I lateraled to a few months ago. My main partner is an absolute nightmare screamer and she literally haunts my dreams and waking hours. I just can't handle it anymore and it's not worth it for me. I have a 1 year old that I've basically spent next to zero time with since I've been absurdly busy since the pandemic started.

I lateraled a few months ago because I thought it would make things better and they've just gotten so much worse. I'm planning on quitting, taking a 6 month or so sabbatical to spend time with my son that I never got after he was born, but want to see if anyone had ever done so previously and whether they were able to get back to biglaw after. I'm sure firms will be curious why I left and I'm planning on being up front with them because at this rate, I really don't think I can survive toughing it out. I was actually hospitalized for a heart issue not too long ago that was stress induced and given that I'd love for my son to have a mother while growing up, I've decided that it's just no longer worth it to stay. Curious if anyone has had experience with this.

I can't speak to the effects of a sabbatical, but why would you want to go back to biglaw if you tried two different firms and had terrible experiences at both? Maybe biglaw isn't for you (which is a totally fine position to take). If you're in litigation, I would explore clerkships and then pivot from there to a boutique (if you want to be private sector/need a bigger paycheck) or government (if you can absorb a paycut).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:05 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:34 pm

I absolutely despise my biglaw job that I lateraled to a few months ago. My main partner is an absolute nightmare screamer and she literally haunts my dreams and waking hours. I just can't handle it anymore and it's not worth it for me. I have a 1 year old that I've basically spent next to zero time with since I've been absurdly busy since the pandemic started.

I lateraled a few months ago because I thought it would make things better and they've just gotten so much worse. I'm planning on quitting, taking a 6 month or so sabbatical to spend time with my son that I never got after he was born, but want to see if anyone had ever done so previously and whether they were able to get back to biglaw after. I'm sure firms will be curious why I left and I'm planning on being up front with them because at this rate, I really don't think I can survive toughing it out. I was actually hospitalized for a heart issue not too long ago that was stress induced and given that I'd love for my son to have a mother while growing up, I've decided that it's just no longer worth it to stay. Curious if anyone has had experience with this.

I can't speak to the effects of a sabbatical, but why would you want to go back to biglaw if you tried two different firms and had terrible experiences at both? Maybe biglaw isn't for you (which is a totally fine position to take). If you're in litigation, I would explore clerkships and then pivot from there to a boutique (if you want to be private sector/need a bigger paycheck) or government (if you can absorb a paycut).

Money, duh.

Can you lateral again and ask for time off before you start as a condition to employment? Just let them know you never had the opportunity to take maternity leave, and need some time to bond with your child. A lot of firms offer this as paid leave, so it’s not like this is an unreasonable request.

There’s always some toxicity in biglaw in my experience. I’ve been at a few firms and worked with screamers, bullies/actual psychopaths, perverts, extremely poor communicators/delegators, antisemites, the works. But you can find ppl whose negative traits are less bothersome to you. Like, nobody at all screams in my current role, or is even passive aggressive. I don’t think about them at night, I even kinda like them as people. I did forego a V10 option for this V50 role because I thought they seemed like reasonably decent people. Point is, you can work in biglaw and not have to work with people who you cannot cope with.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:34 pm

I absolutely despise my biglaw job that I lateraled to a few months ago. My main partner is an absolute nightmare screamer and she literally haunts my dreams and waking hours. I just can't handle it anymore and it's not worth it for me. I have a 1 year old that I've basically spent next to zero time with since I've been absurdly busy since the pandemic started.

I lateraled a few months ago because I thought it would make things better and they've just gotten so much worse. I'm planning on quitting, taking a 6 month or so sabbatical to spend time with my son that I never got after he was born, but want to see if anyone had ever done so previously and whether they were able to get back to biglaw after. I'm sure firms will be curious why I left and I'm planning on being up front with them because at this rate, I really don't think I can survive toughing it out. I was actually hospitalized for a heart issue not too long ago that was stress induced and given that I'd love for my son to have a mother while growing up, I've decided that it's just no longer worth it to stay. Curious if anyone has had experience with this.

Not directly relevant to the sabbatical question, but have you considered a firm with a reduced hours arrangement? It might give you more time with your son, and perhaps firms that take those arrangements to heart will be more friendly.

Also, why call it a sabbatical? Just start interviewing and tell them you want to start at the end of the summer. If pressed on why, just say something vague about completing the matters your on now and some family commitments you'd like to attend to before starting. Not sure if that would work out, but in principle the firms you interview at don't have to know you're just planning for a large break.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:41 am

Can you lateral again and ask for time off before you start as a condition to employment? Just let them know you never had the opportunity to take maternity leave, and need some time to bond with your child. A lot of firms offer this as paid leave, so it’s not like this is an unreasonable request.

There’s always some toxicity in biglaw in my experience. I’ve been at a few firms and worked with screamers, bullies/actual psychopaths, perverts, extremely poor communicators/delegators, antisemites, the works. But you can find ppl whose negative traits are less bothersome to you. Like, nobody at all screams in my current role, or is even passive aggressive. I don’t think about them at night, I even kinda like them as people. I did forego a V10 option for this V50 role because I thought they seemed like reasonably decent people. Point is, you can work in biglaw and not have to work with people who you cannot cope with.

I would not frame it as a maternity/parenting issue. There is still a lot of bias against mothers, no matter what the official policies say. If you need to give an explanation, I would frame it related to the heart incident.

Honestly, just lateral, but indeed state you want to start later. Or at the very least discuss this with your firm and say you need some time off. My stance would also be to, stating now, just care less. WFH. Don't pick up the phone. Do the bare minimum. What are they going to do? Fire you? Even if that were the case, it will take at least 9 months before they pull that trigger. In the meantime you have had an easier time and had the time to find a new job. Stop letting them abuse you.

This is all assuming you need the money btw.

I agree there's no need to frame it as a sabbatical. Just pull back at your current job while you look for a new one and negotiate a break in between, or quit and later explain you took some time off for a health issue. I don't agree that all biglaw is toxic or that you somehow aren't a good fit for it because you don't like getting screamed at. I have a 1 year old and 3 year old and while biglaw hours are no joke, I've found a group/firm that treats me well and respects my boundaries, which is the only way I'm able to tolerate it on top of the stresses of parenthood. I think it's worth it for you to continue looking for the same.

what do people think is the downside of framing it as a sabbatical? i dont think it really matters either way but curious what's wrong with saying "sabbatical"

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:16 pm

what do people think is the downside of framing it as a sabbatical? i dont think it really matters either way but curious what's wrong with saying "sabbatical"

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with these perspectives. Just spit-balling what hiring committees might think:

• makes you look like more of a flight risk

• makes you look entitled (what other associates have you heard of doing this?)

• makes you look less committed

• may be assumed to be based on mental health issues (which is not a valid reason to pass on someone, but as we know mental illness is still stigmatized)

I don’t know that the term sabbatical hurts, I’m just not sure it brings much to the table compared to just taking leave. For one thing, in a lot of contexts sabbatical implies time off for professional development (it’s most common in academia when profs go off and do research and publish). It’s a bit weird to use it to describe spending time with your kid. Sometimes that professional development can be to rest and refresh, I guess, but to me the connotations don’t quite match the situation here. (I know its etymology is literally rest, but not sure it still has that connotation.)

I suppose the primary advantage of the term is that a sabbatical is voluntary and has a definite end right from the start, but it also seems a little strange to say sabbatical if you don’t have a specific end date when you’re returning to a specific employer. You usually take a sabbatical from a specific job and return to that job, so while you could talk about taking a sabbatical from law, it still seems a bit odd if you don’t have some kind of legal job to go back to.

The last thing is that I think using the term sabbatical here could come across as an attempt to try to make what is essentially maternity leave look like something it’s not, which just feels weird. I think my concern here is that people who will hold it against you that you took time off to be with your kids would find the term sabbatical to be disingenuous, and those who wouldn’t hold it against you may feel like you’re disrespecting maternity leave by trying to dress it up as something else.

All those nits picked, again, I don’t know that it’s a terrible term to use. But it isn’t that common.

I also think that the term is probably going to matter less than how long you you take off. I think 6 months isn’t that big a deal, especially if you have good qualifications and the market stays decent. I think the bigger issue isn’t what you call it but how long you can be unemployed without looking stale. Parents (but particularly moms) who take time off for child care do often suffer career derailments, even though I wish that wasn’t the case.

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:24 pm

All those nits picked, again, I don’t know that it’s a terrible term to use. But it isn’t that common.

See I think that by nature of it being uncommon (particularly for associates), it would end up ticking off some potential employers. Why use the term with potential downside when you don't need to?

Maybe that matters less in today's crazy market (if OP is in corporate, especially in NYC), but who knows what the job market will look like in August.

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:24 pm

You usually take a sabbatical from a specific job and return to that job, so while you could talk about taking a sabbatical from law, it still seems a bit odd if you don’t have some kind of legal job to go back to.

thanks for articulating it, i think this is the big thing but i couldn't put it to words. sabbatical isn't something you do in between two different jobs, it's taken during a job that you go back to. that makes a lot of sense

the other things such as "it looks entitled" seem like less of a reason to not use the word compared to this one. i don't think it's as uncommon as some folks are making out, a good amount of firms offer this, though i concede it might not always be called 'sabbatical". but yes it's always a break at a firm for some time that they then return to

Does your firm have a wellness initiative or some officer in charge of associate health? Mine does, and if I called her and told her that I was diagnosed with a stress-induced heart issue and I wanted time off, I am pretty confident I could work out a time-off arrangement that was partially paid. I would encourage you to look into this if your firm has anything of the sort. You could take a few months off, they would still count as employed for future resume purposes, you might get paid at least partially for them, and you can think about whether you want to just resign or do something else.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:01 pm

nixy wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:24 pm

All those nits picked, again, I don’t know that it’s a terrible term to use. But it isn’t that common.

See I think that by nature of it being uncommon (particularly for associates), it would end up ticking off some potential employers. Why use the term with potential downside when you don't need to?

Yeah, I don’t really disagree. I can’t point to actual evidence that using the term would hurt, and also can’t claim that my take on it is universal, so there may be contexts where it would work just fine. But I agree that sticking to accepted culture is the safest path, if possible, or lacking some compelling reason not to (challenging certain assumptions around categories like gender, race, religion could be compelling, but not sure sabbatical fits that category).

Have you considered FMLA leave? In the meantime you could apply for other jobs, and hopefully you can time it right to get another few weeks off before starting a new gig.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:16 pm

what do people think is the downside of framing it as a sabbatical? i dont think it really matters either way but curious what's wrong with saying "sabbatical"

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with these perspectives. Just spit-balling what hiring committees might think:

• makes you look like more of a flight risk

• makes you look entitled (what other associates have you heard of doing this?)

• makes you look less committed

• may be assumed to be based on mental health issues (which is not a valid reason to pass on someone, but as we know mental illness is still stigmatized)

Adding to this list: unable to handle the demands (which include stress) of the job

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:16 pm

what do people think is the downside of framing it as a sabbatical? i dont think it really matters either way but curious what's wrong with saying "sabbatical"

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with these perspectives. Just spit-balling what hiring committees might think:

• makes you look like more of a flight risk

• makes you look entitled (what other associates have you heard of doing this?)

• makes you look less committed

• may be assumed to be based on mental health issues (which is not a valid reason to pass on someone, but as we know mental illness is still stigmatized)

Adding to this list: unable to handle the demands (which include stress) of the job

I don’t think this is at all specific to sabbatical though, I think this would be the case for any kind of leave (which may be what you meant, but I think the conversation was around the connotations of the word “sabbatical” specifically, not just what concerns taking time off might raise).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:16 pm

what do people think is the downside of framing it as a sabbatical? i dont think it really matters either way but curious what's wrong with saying "sabbatical"

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with these perspectives. Just spit-balling what hiring committees might think:

• makes you look like more of a flight risk

• makes you look entitled (what other associates have you heard of doing this?)

• makes you look less committed

• may be assumed to be based on mental health issues (which is not a valid reason to pass on someone, but as we know mental illness is still stigmatized)

Adding to this list: unable to handle the demands (which include stress) of the job

I don’t think this is at all specific to sabbatical though, I think this would be the case for any kind of leave (which may be what you meant, but I think the conversation was around the connotations of the word “sabbatical” specifically, not just what concerns taking time off might raise).

Aren't all of these concerns specific to sabbatical? They may overlap with other types of leave, but I don't think those other types of leave would instill the same level or types of concern. For example, many partners (i.e., not a flight risk) who are hard working (not entitled, able to meet demands/stress), committed (they made partner), and (relatively) mentally stable (at least enough to make partner) took parental leave as an associate (or even as a partner). I don't think it's fair to say firms would react the same way to someone requesting FMLA/parental leave vs. a sabbatical.

It's not quite the same, but I was laid off when the pandemic hit and had not trouble finding another biglaw job after taking a few months off to spend time with my family. I know of multiple other associates who did the same thing. In this market being out of the workforce for a few months isn't going to prevent you from going back to biglaw if your experience is otherwise strong. That said, it's impossible to know what things will look like by the time you're ready to return to work.

The bigger problem is that doing biglaw with kids really sucks, even when you work for decent people.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 28, 2022 10:42 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:25 pm

jotarokujo wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:16 pm

what do people think is the downside of framing it as a sabbatical? i dont think it really matters either way but curious what's wrong with saying "sabbatical"

Disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with these perspectives. Just spit-balling what hiring committees might think:

• makes you look like more of a flight risk

• makes you look entitled (what other associates have you heard of doing this?)

• makes you look less committed

• may be assumed to be based on mental health issues (which is not a valid reason to pass on someone, but as we know mental illness is still stigmatized)

Adding to this list: unable to handle the demands (which include stress) of the job

I don’t think this is at all specific to sabbatical though, I think this would be the case for any kind of leave (which may be what you meant, but I think the conversation was around the connotations of the word “sabbatical” specifically, not just what concerns taking time off might raise).

Aren't all of these concerns specific to sabbatical? They may overlap with other types of leave, but I don't think those other types of leave would instill the same level or types of concern. For example, many partners (i.e., not a flight risk) who are hard working (not entitled, able to meet demands/stress), committed (they made partner), and (relatively) mentally stable (at least enough to make partner) took parental leave as an associate (or even as a partner). I don't think it's fair to say firms would react the same way to someone requesting FMLA/parental leave vs. a sabbatical.

You’re right that parental leave would likely raise fewer of these concerns, but I do think women who parent still face assumptions that they’re not sufficiently committed to their careers and so taking maternity leave can be an issue (especially if you want to have more than one kid while at the same firm). Not always, obviously, but I think it’s still a risk. I also think FMLA leave can raise concerns about you being unable to handle the demands of the job/mental illness/flight risk. Maybe entitled is more specific to sabbatical and not the others, but basically I
think anything that suggests you value something outside work can be held against you, even if that’s raising kids or your health. That’s a worst case scenario - many times any or all of these things would be fine, especially depending on how valued you are and what relationships you’ve developed - but I think it’s always a risk.

OP, are you sure you want to continue doing biglaw? Heart issues are no joke, and it just doesn't seem worth it to take such a significant health risk for a biglaw job.