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Even for lit, WLRK is extremely competitive. You'll be much more constrained in the types of cases that you handle, but WLRK on a lit resume would look almost as (if not equally) impressive as a Kellogg or Susman.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:54 pmWLRK and Cahill should be considered boutiques unless you only want litigation.
Eimer Stahl in Chicago is an elite boutique with above market bonus. Not sure how much.
Fair, I just meant that it's not known as a lit boutique and isn't on the same path of "clerkships first" without a summer program etc.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:59 pmEven for lit, WLRK is extremely competitive. You'll be much more constrained in the types of cases that you handle, but WLRK on a lit resume would look almost as (if not equally) impressive as a Kellogg or Susman.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:54 pmWLRK and Cahill should be considered boutiques unless you only want litigation.
Eimer Stahl in Chicago is an elite boutique with above market bonus. Not sure how much.
Cahill pays above market?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:54 pmWLRK and Cahill should be considered boutiques unless you only want litigation.
Eimer Stahl in Chicago is an elite boutique with above market bonus. Not sure how much.
https://abovethelaw.com/2021/12/cahill-bonus-2021/kjdsalinger wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:32 pmCahill pays above market?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:54 pmWLRK and Cahill should be considered boutiques unless you only want litigation.
Eimer Stahl in Chicago is an elite boutique with above market bonus. Not sure how much.
The question was market or above, not "good boutiques." W&C is below market, as are Consovoy and Jones Day. I think Cooper, Bondurant, and and Cooper are too (though I'm not sure).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:18 pmKellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.
Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)
Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.
Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)
This is really helpful, thank you!!Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:18 pmI'm missing a bunch, but the ones that are nationally famous include
Kellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.
Many cities have elite boutiques that aren't quite as famous but similarly competitive. The people that matter know about these places. These include
Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)
Then there are the more political ones
Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.
Going beyond boutiques only, secondary markets tend to have 1-2 lit firms that are considered elite in that city. This is worth considering if you're from one of these markets. Sometimes these overlap with the above. These include
Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)
Bad word choice, just want to know all the options. The biglaws are more visible and hold more on-campus events, and show up on ranking lists, etc., so I just want to make sure I know what else is out there...The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:49 pmSeems weird to me to describe market-paying boutiques as "biglaw alternatives". They have more in common with big firms than with any other kind of employer.
Cooper pays market. Jones Day is way above local market in the places where it’s the elite lit firm.RedNewJersey wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:47 pmThe question was market or above, not "good boutiques." W&C is below market, as are Consovoy and Jones Day. I think Cooper, Bondurant, and and Cooper are too (though I'm not sure).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:18 pmKellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.
Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)
Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.
Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)
I might add Selendy & Gay, McKool Smith, MoloLamken, and Wilkinson Stekloff.
I don't think it should be a surprise that boutiques are only meeting or barely exceeding market in many cases. The above-market lit boutique norm is a product of the early 2010s when biglaw pay was flat, corporate was slow, and many high profile players were able to get big contingency fees (including on E.D. Tex. patent work that's way less lucrative now). It's harder to stay ahead of pay hikes driven by corporate work that boutiques aren't seeing, especially for the newer generation of players like Wilkinson that do substantially more defense-side work. That's not to say that going to a boutique is a bad move - it's arguably better experience for the same pay - though you could argue that that might improve too at a slammed V10 practice relative to before. But it probably doesn't make sense to go to a boutique for pecuniary reasons outside maybe Susman or WLRK.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:47 amHH did not pay above-market bonuses to most associates this year and not clear they will going forward either.
I think in general you could get more substantive work early on, just because the firm size is smaller?The Lsat Airbender wrote: ↑Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:49 pmSeems weird to me to describe market-paying boutiques as "biglaw alternatives". They have more in common with big firms than with any other kind of employer.
I'd add Kellogg, especially after its most recent bonus round. Another pecuniary interest is that boutiques offer better partnership chances. PPP isn't V10 high, but it's still high.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 5:13 amI don't think it should be a surprise that boutiques are only meeting or barely exceeding market in many cases. The above-market lit boutique norm is a product of the early 2010s when biglaw pay was flat, corporate was slow, and many high profile players were able to get big contingency fees (including on E.D. Tex. patent work that's way less lucrative now). It's harder to stay ahead of pay hikes driven by corporate work that boutiques aren't seeing, especially for the newer generation of players like Wilkinson that do substantially more defense-side work. That's not to say that going to a boutique is a bad move - it's arguably better experience for the same pay - though you could argue that that might improve too at a slammed V10 practice relative to before. But it probably doesn't make sense to go to a boutique for pecuniary reasons outside maybe Susman or WLRK.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:47 amHH did not pay above-market bonuses to most associates this year and not clear they will going forward either.
Desmarais pays just above the NYC market these days. They definitely no longer pay 20k above market for base salary and likely never will again. Apparently, bonuses are also dependent on performance. Some get below market bonuses but most get market plus 15-20% or something like that.