Elite boutiques that pay market/above market? Forum

[Phantasio]

Curious, will you choose these firms over a big law position?

[Anonymous User]

BraunHagey & Borden (SF and NY) pays 10% above the current Milbank scale.

[Anonymous User]

Elias Law Gtoup pays the current Milbank scale

[Anonymous User]

Curious, will you choose these firms over a big law position?

I mean the talent differential between these firms and typical biglaw speaks for itself. Most of the places mentioned in this thread are stacked with circuit clerks, while mainstream biglaw (including SullCrom NY, Cravath, basically every NY biglaw office except Wachtell) are not. There is a reason the litigators with the most options go to these places.

[Anonymous User]

With some caveats, Keller Lenkner pays about market.

The caveats are:
Pay is weighted toward bonus over salary.
Comp is individualized / blackbox, not lockstep.
The firm doesn't offer signing bonuses for laterals or clerks.

So, decidedly below market on some metrics, but a number of associates get considerably above-market, so I'm judging it "about" market. It's high for a plaintiff-side firm though.

[Anonymous User]

With some caveats, Keller Lenkner pays about market.

The caveats are:
Pay is weighted toward bonus over salary.
Comp is individualized / blackbox, not lockstep.
The firm doesn't offer signing bonuses for laterals or clerks.

So, decidedly below market on some metrics, but a number of associates get considerably above-market, so I'm judging it "about" market. It's high for a plaintiff-side firm though.

Thanks for sharing. I'm fascinated by Keller Lenkner. Would you be willing to share any more about its compensation formula? (For example, is compensation based on hours worked, contingency success, origination credit, or some combination of all these factors? What does the compensation floor and ceiling look like? And how does partnership work?)

[Anonymous User]

BraunHagey & Borden (SF and NY) pays 10% above the current Milbank scale.

Thanks!

[jbagelboy]

I'm missing a bunch, but the ones that are nationally famous include

Kellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.

Many cities have elite boutiques that aren't quite as famous but similarly competitive. The people that matter know about these places. These include

Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)

Then there are the more political ones

Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.

Going beyond boutiques only, secondary markets tend to have 1-2 lit firms that are considered elite in that city. This is worth considering if you're from one of these markets. Sometimes these overlap with the above. These include

Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)

This list is non-responsive. The question was which boutiques pay above market. None of Munger, Williams & Connolly, JD, Gibson, or Wilmer pay above market, nor are any of those firms boutiques. KVN and Kaplan are boutiques but neither truly pay above market. Some others on this list are questionable.

[Anonymous User]

I'm missing a bunch, but the ones that are nationally famous include

Kellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.

Many cities have elite boutiques that aren't quite as famous but similarly competitive. The people that matter know about these places. These include

Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)

Then there are the more political ones

Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.

Going beyond boutiques only, secondary markets tend to have 1-2 lit firms that are considered elite in that city. This is worth considering if you're from one of these markets. Sometimes these overlap with the above. These include

Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)

This list is non-responsive. The question was which boutiques pay above market. None of Munger, Williams & Connolly, JD, Gibson, or Wilmer pay above market, nor are any of those firms boutiques. KVN and Kaplan are boutiques but neither truly pay above market. Some others on this list are questionable.

In fairness, the question says "market/above market." All these firms pay at least market except for Williams & Connolly (which is prestigious for other reasons) and Jones Day (which pays above market in I&A). Although I wouldn't consider either a boutique.

[jbagelboy]

I'm missing a bunch, but the ones that are nationally famous include

Kellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.

Many cities have elite boutiques that aren't quite as famous but similarly competitive. The people that matter know about these places. These include

Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)

Then there are the more political ones

Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.

Going beyond boutiques only, secondary markets tend to have 1-2 lit firms that are considered elite in that city. This is worth considering if you're from one of these markets. Sometimes these overlap with the above. These include

Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)

This list is non-responsive. The question was which boutiques pay above market. None of Munger, Williams & Connolly, JD, Gibson, or Wilmer pay above market, nor are any of those firms boutiques. KVN and Kaplan are boutiques but neither truly pay above market. Some others on this list are questionable.

In fairness, the question says "market/above market." All these firms pay at least market except for Williams & Connolly (which is prestigious for other reasons) and Jones Day (which pays above market in I&A). Although I wouldn't consider either a boutique.

Fair enough. Still, this is hardly a list of “boutiques.”

[Anonymous User]

Curious, will you choose these firms over a big law position?

I mean the talent differential between these firms and typical biglaw speaks for itself. Most of the places mentioned in this thread are stacked with circuit clerks, while mainstream biglaw (including SullCrom NY, Cravath, basically every NY biglaw office except Wachtell) are not. There is a reason the litigators with the most options go to these places.

Take, for example, the associate roster at Gibbs Bruns (one of the less famous boutiques being discussed here). Big talent gap between this and most biglaw associate rosters, especially in New York.

[Anonymous User]

Kellogg, Bartlit Beck, Munger, Susman. Williams & Connolly isn't a boutique per se, but it's often discussed in the same conversation.

Dovel & Luner (Santa Monica), Gibbs Bruns (Houston), Keker (SF), Hueston Hennigan (LA)

Consovoy McCarthy (conservative), Kaplan Hecker (liberal), Cooper & Kirk (conservative) Maybe Lehotsky Keller belongs on this list for the conservatives too.

Bondurant (Atlanta), Susman/Gibbs (Houston), Susman (Seattle), Jones Day (Ohio), Gibson Dunn (Dallas), WilmerHale (Boston), SoCal (Munger, Hueston Hennigan), SF (Keker)

The question was market or above, not "good boutiques." W&C is below market, as are Consovoy and Jones Day. I think Cooper, Bondurant, and and Cooper are too (though I'm not sure).

I might add Selendy & Gay, McKool Smith, MoloLamken, and Wilkinson Stekloff.

Cooper pays market. Jones Day is way above local market in the places where it’s the elite lit firm.

For other boutiques generally (not necessarily above-market), Texas has a ton more, listed on Vault, plus Gibson Dallas, which is pretty much a boutique.

Agreed, but I think this is basically a Houston thing. Dallas doesn't have elite boutiques (Lynn and McKool aren't in the same league). Agreed that Gibson Dallas is boutique-like in many ways, especially in selectivity, but still biglaw at the end of the day.

Houston may be the only major market where boutiques literally dominate the entire litigation market (versus just populating the top end of it). A ton of boutiques there, although most are not as competitive as Susman (except Gibbs & Bruns and maybe Yetter). This unique phenomenon is the result of Houston's massive energy transactions market. Biglaw firms started going all-in on transactions. The litigation partners felt sidelined and they left to found their own firms.

If you want to litigate in Houston, Susman, Gibbs, Yetter, Reynolds, Smyser Kaplan, Beck Redden and maybe AZA are all better options than biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

Delete

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for sharing. I'm fascinated by Keller Lenkner. Would you be willing to share any more about its compensation formula? (For example, is compensation based on hours worked, contingency success, origination credit, or some combination of all these factors? What does the compensation floor and ceiling look like? And how does partnership work?)

Some of these are fairly specific questions, and it's a small enough firm that any information may be identifying. If you post non-anonymously, I could DM you.

[T3TON]

Thanks for sharing. I'm fascinated by Keller Lenkner. Would you be willing to share any more about its compensation formula? (For example, is compensation based on hours worked, contingency success, origination credit, or some combination of all these factors? What does the compensation floor and ceiling look like? And how does partnership work?)

Some of these are fairly specific questions, and it's a small enough firm that any information may be identifying. If you post non-anonymously, I could DM you.

Totally reasonable. Sliding out of anon.

[Anonymous User]

Some of these are fairly specific questions, and it's a small enough firm that any information may be identifying. If you post non-anonymously, I could DM you.

Totally reasonable. Sliding out of anon.

Sent you a DM.

[giosaza]

Some of these are fairly specific questions, and it's a small enough firm that any information may be identifying. If you post non-anonymously, I could DM you.

Totally reasonable. Sliding out of anon.

Sent you a DM.

Is there anyway you could DM the same info? Thanks!

[<3waitlists]

Some of these are fairly specific questions, and it's a small enough firm that any information may be identifying. If you post non-anonymously, I could DM you.

Totally reasonable. Sliding out of anon.

Sent you a DM.

Is there anyway you could DM the same info? Thanks!

late reply here but could you also dm same info?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any Bartlit Beck Info? For such a popular boutique seems so secretive

Interested in this firm. Wondering if anyone has helpful info

[Anonymous User]

Curious, will you choose these firms over a big law position?

I mean the talent differential between these firms and typical biglaw speaks for itself. Most of the places mentioned in this thread are stacked with circuit clerks, while mainstream biglaw (including SullCrom NY, Cravath, basically every NY biglaw office except Wachtell) are not. There is a reason the litigators with the most options go to these places.

Lol at the no. 1 most prestigious firm on Vault being "mainstream biglaw."

But more to the point. OP, if you're interested in top litigation and think you might be open to the bigger law firms (not saying "biglaw" because Cravath is a small firm), some of the V5 may be of interest to you (except for Wachtell, which is not particularly strong in litigation). The V1 is known for being strong in every major type of commercial litigation and they provide you with hands-on experience at an extremely early stage. Quantity, quality, breadth, and small teams. Comparing the V1 to lit boutiques is like comparing apples to oranges, although they both offer similar experiences. Happy to discuss more

[Anonymous User]

Reichman Jorgensen pays above market (although it is black box)

[Anonymous User]

Curious, will you choose these firms over a big law position?

I mean the talent differential between these firms and typical biglaw speaks for itself. Most of the places mentioned in this thread are stacked with circuit clerks, while mainstream biglaw (including SullCrom NY, Cravath, basically every NY biglaw office except Wachtell) are not. There is a reason the litigators with the most options go to these places.

Lol at the no. 1 most prestigious firm on Vault being "mainstream biglaw."

But more to the point. OP, if you're interested in top litigation and think you might be open to the bigger law firms (not saying "biglaw" because Cravath is a small firm), some of the V5 may be of interest to you (except for Wachtell, which is not particularly strong in litigation). The V1 is known for being strong in every major type of commercial litigation and they provide you with hands-on experience at an extremely early stage. Quantity, quality, breadth, and small teams. Comparing the V1 to lit boutiques is like comparing apples to oranges, although they both offer similar experiences. Happy to discuss more

Nobody feed the Cravath troll.

[Anonymous User]

Curious, will you choose these firms over a big law position?

I mean the talent differential between these firms and typical biglaw speaks for itself. Most of the places mentioned in this thread are stacked with circuit clerks, while mainstream biglaw (including SullCrom NY, Cravath, basically every NY biglaw office except Wachtell) are not. There is a reason the litigators with the most options go to these places.

Take, for example, the associate roster at Gibbs Bruns (one of the less famous boutiques being discussed here). Big talent gap between this and most biglaw associate rosters, especially in New York.

Not to be annoying, but the academic credentials of the people at Gibbs don't seem that unparalleled by big law standards (cum laude at T6 or magna at UT or other Texas schools) and clerkship-wise, it's almost exclusively of SCOTX and CA5 clerks.

Also, given the political valence to clerkship hiring on both sides at this point, I'm not really sure it's valid to equate clerkships with associate strength, especially with regard to CA5.

This point holds for a lot of the mid/high end boutiques, but I don't think Gibbs Bruns was necessarily the right firm to make the point with

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any Bartlit Beck Info? For such a popular boutique seems so secretive

Interested in this firm. Wondering if anyone has helpful info

Substantially above market and early and attainable partnership, basically as good as it gets. Similar deal to Susman. Their exact comp is not public.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have any Bartlit Beck Info? For such a popular boutique seems so secretive

Interested in this firm. Wondering if anyone has helpful info

Substantially above market and early and attainable partnership, basically as good as it gets. Similar deal to Susman. Their exact comp is not public.

Feel like the credential threshold is a bit above Susman even