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wondering as an incoming associate

Inb4 this turns into a KE bashing thread #1928. That said, KE. It's either that or low EQ--probably a mix.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:51 am

wondering as an incoming associate

This is top-tier shitposting, love it.

That being said, we all know which V6 firm has the most insecure people.

Cravath is Cravath, Wachtell is Wachtell, SullCrom/DPW/Simpson have white shoe prestige, PW and GDC are low enough to not be playing the same game, KE and LW make more money. So I think it is Skadden.

Cravath or Kirkland.

Define “insecure”

Prudent_Jurist wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:23 am

Define “insecure”

I would say not confident or anxious about his or her firm's prestige.

That being said, I saw some V6 and V8 folks being insecure in other threads

I cannot imagine something I care about less.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:23 am

Cravath is Cravath, Wachtell is Wachtell, SullCrom/DPW/Simpson have white shoe prestige, PW and GDC are low enough to not be playing the same game, KE and LW make more money. So I think it is Skadden.

Relying on "white shoe prestige" reeks of insecurity imo

blair.waldorf wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:42 am

I cannot imagine something I care about less.

Don't know about firms but pretty sure we found the most insecure associate right here

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:47 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:23 am

Cravath is Cravath, Wachtell is Wachtell, SullCrom/DPW/Simpson have white shoe prestige, PW and GDC are low enough to not be playing the same game, KE and LW make more money. So I think it is Skadden.

Relying on "white shoe prestige" reeks of insecurity imo

Found the Skadden associate

In my experience, it’s DPW followed by Skadden. They’ll work the same hours as Latham and Kirkland for less pay and constantly say or imply that working for Latham or Kirkland is uncouth or those firms have lower quality associates. All the V10s have high-end M&A and litigation capabilities, so who cares if Latham/Kirkland sometimes have mediocre lateral associates on some $200 million PE deal you worked against them on?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:37 pm

In my experience, it’s DPW followed by Skadden. They’ll work the same hours as Latham and Kirkland for less pay and constantly say or imply that working for Latham or Kirkland is uncouth or those firms have lower quality associates. All the V10s have high-end M&A and litigation capabilities, so who cares if Latham/Kirkland sometimes have mediocre lateral associates on some $200 million PE deal you worked against them on?

All of us who aren't NYC corporate drones collectively roll our eyes every time this sort of discussion comes up. The world doesn't revolve around NYC M&A and by extension, the Vault rankings. It's weird that NYC corp is like the least competitive thing in BigLaw to get, but NYC corp lawyers are the ones always obsessing over preffftige and V10, V5 nonsense. Lol at NYC "white-shoe." Who even cares about that anymore. Lol think of the armies of SCOTUS/COA clerks at Kirkland, Gibson, Latham in DC, for example, who are reading this thread.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:37 pm

In my experience, it’s DPW followed by Skadden. They’ll work the same hours as Latham and Kirkland for less pay and constantly say or imply that working for Latham or Kirkland is uncouth or those firms have lower quality associates. All the V10s have high-end M&A and litigation capabilities, so who cares if Latham/Kirkland sometimes have mediocre lateral associates on some $200 million PE deal you worked against them on?

All of us who aren't NYC corporate drones collectively roll our eyes every time this sort of discussion comes up. The world doesn't revolve around NYC M&A and by extension, the Vault rankings. It's weird that NYC corp is like the least competitive thing in BigLaw to get, but NYC corp lawyers are the ones always obsessing over preffftige and V10, V5 nonsense. Lol at NYC "white-shoe." Who even cares about that anymore. Lol think of the armies of SCOTUS/COA clerks at Kirkland, Gibson, Latham in DC, for example, who are reading this thread.

Lit is money losing business for most biglaw anyways. And those in elite boutiques prb should not and do not care. At least in corporate, prestige means better candidates/bigger clients, so more money. Why do you think Milbank keeps raising the scale?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:37 pm

In my experience, it’s DPW followed by Skadden. They’ll work the same hours as Latham and Kirkland for less pay and constantly say or imply that working for Latham or Kirkland is uncouth or those firms have lower quality associates. All the V10s have high-end M&A and litigation capabilities, so who cares if Latham/Kirkland sometimes have mediocre lateral associates on some $200 million PE deal you worked against them on?

All of us who aren't NYC corporate drones collectively roll our eyes every time this sort of discussion comes up. The world doesn't revolve around NYC M&A and by extension, the Vault rankings. It's weird that NYC corp is like the least competitive thing in BigLaw to get, but NYC corp lawyers are the ones always obsessing over preffftige and V10, V5 nonsense. Lol at NYC "white-shoe." Who even cares about that anymore. Lol think of the armies of SCOTUS/COA clerks at Kirkland, Gibson, Latham in DC, for example, who are reading this thread.

Lit is money losing business for most biglaw anyways. And those in elite boutiques prb should not and do not care. At least in corporate, prestige means better candidates/bigger clients, so more money. Why do you think Milbank keeps raising the scale?

True, but why not just go to biz school? Lol at going to law school for three years just to push papers and prepare signature pages and then debate prefffftige about "NYC white-shoe firms." At least litigation is an actual craft, for those who have the credentials to avoid becoming doc review drones.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:37 pm

In my experience, it’s DPW followed by Skadden. They’ll work the same hours as Latham and Kirkland for less pay and constantly say or imply that working for Latham or Kirkland is uncouth or those firms have lower quality associates. All the V10s have high-end M&A and litigation capabilities, so who cares if Latham/Kirkland sometimes have mediocre lateral associates on some $200 million PE deal you worked against them on?

All of us who aren't NYC corporate drones collectively roll our eyes every time this sort of discussion comes up. The world doesn't revolve around NYC M&A and by extension, the Vault rankings. It's weird that NYC corp is like the least competitive thing in BigLaw to get, but NYC corp lawyers are the ones always obsessing over preffftige and V10, V5 nonsense. Lol at NYC "white-shoe." Who even cares about that anymore. Lol think of the armies of SCOTUS/COA clerks at Kirkland, Gibson, Latham in DC, for example, who are reading this thread.

Lit is money losing business for most biglaw anyways. And those in elite boutiques prb should not and do not care. At least in corporate, prestige means better candidates/bigger clients, so more money. Why do you think Milbank keeps raising the scale?

Also, the criticism of the NYC-centric obsession with Vault extends beyond litigation vs corporate. Lol at the Skadden NYC drone debating prefftige and then going back to a $3000 studio, while the corp bro in Kirkland Houston gets to live in a McMansion. I think the question in this thread should be re-phrased as: Who has the most insecure lawyers? Answer: NYC corporate.

Imagine going to law school to be a "real lawyer" and work harder to get a job only to realize that it's an inferior career with weaker exits than corporate.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:01 pm

Imagine going to law school to be a "real lawyer" and work harder to get a job only to realize that it's an inferior career with weaker exits than corporate.

I mean, yes, if you're a mediocre law school student, corp is the best way to optimize exit options. If you're in that category, you shouldn't go into lit. But if you're a baller law student, you can get a COA clerkship and then go to a boutique that makes more than half their associates partner. Or you can become an AUSA and prosecute white collar criminals instead of preparing their sig pages.

Again, this comes back to the original point: Why do people who choose to go into the least competitive field within biglaw care so much about preffftige? This is less of a criticism of corp as a career path than of the weird juxtaposition between its lack of competitiveness and its insufferable obsession with Vault preffftige.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:01 pm

Imagine going to law school to be a "real lawyer" and work harder to get a job only to realize that it's an inferior career with weaker exits than corporate.

I mean, yes, if you're a mediocre law school student, corp is the best way to optimize exit options. If you're in that category, you shouldn't go into lit. But if you're a baller law student, you can get a COA clerkship and then go to a boutique that makes more than half their associates partner. Or you can become an AUSA and prosecute white collar criminals instead of preparing their sig pages.

Again, this comes back to the original point: Why do people who choose to go into the least competitive field within biglaw care so much about preffftige? This is less of a criticism of corp as a career path than of the weird juxtaposition between its lack of competitiveness and its insufferable obsession with Vault preffftige.

Why would I want to be a cop for half the money I'm making?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:01 pm

Imagine going to law school to be a "real lawyer" and work harder to get a job only to realize that it's an inferior career with weaker exits than corporate.

I mean, yes, if you're a mediocre law school student, corp is the best way to optimize exit options. If you're in that category, you shouldn't go into lit. But if you're a baller law student, you can get a COA clerkship and then go to a boutique that makes more than half their associates partner. Or you can become an AUSA and prosecute white collar criminals instead of preparing their sig pages.

Again, this comes back to the original point: Why do people who choose to go into the least competitive field within biglaw care so much about preffftige? This is less of a criticism of corp as a career path than of the weird juxtaposition between its lack of competitiveness and its insufferable obsession with Vault preffftige.

Why would I want to be a cop for half the money I'm making?

I mean all reasonable minds probably agree that law school is a pretty dumb choice if your only goal is to maximize income. So using that as the exclusive criterion for debating post-law school career paths seems... odd. And also, if that's your only criterion why go to NYC? Go Texas energy transactions and make $$$$$.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:12 pm

blair.waldorf wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:42 am

I cannot imagine something I care about less.

Don't know about firms but pretty sure we found the most insecure associate right here

Lol no, it’s pretty much the only reasonable take, this is one of the dumbest discussions on this site.

Lol at all of us. I’m corporate but have worked on a handful of litigations closely with litigators. I respect what they do immensely, but it’s just another leg of the law firm stool not some higher craft. The best lawyers I know would succeed at corporate law or litigation. Just like litigators think transactional folks merely push paper, I’m blown away by the ridiculous formalities and amounts of paper required in a litigation. But I also see the preparation they put into depos and arguments and the quality briefs they prepare. Not sure many litigators care to see how much thought goes into everything we do to try to avoid/prevent litigation while being commercial and getting clients ideal outcomes. But mostly, I can’t believe we’re mudslinging about what’s more prestigious or more noble work. All that’s for people trying to justify their career/lifestyle choice and fill the void of insecurity.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:01 pm

Imagine going to law school to be a "real lawyer" and work harder to get a job only to realize that it's an inferior career with weaker exits than corporate.

I mean, yes, if you're a mediocre law school student, corp is the best way to optimize exit options. If you're in that category, you shouldn't go into lit. But if you're a baller law student, you can get a COA clerkship and then go to a boutique that makes more than half their associates partner. Or you can become an AUSA and prosecute white collar criminals instead of preparing their sig pages.

Again, this comes back to the original point: Why do people who choose to go into the least competitive field within biglaw care so much about preffftige? This is less of a criticism of corp as a career path than of the weird juxtaposition between its lack of competitiveness and its insufferable obsession with Vault preffftige.

Why would I want to be a cop for half the money I'm making?

I mean all reasonable minds probably agree that law school is a pretty dumb choice if your only goal is to maximize income. So using that as the exclusive criterion for debating post-law school career paths seems... odd. And also, if that's your only criterion why go to NYC? Go Texas energy transactions and make $$$$$.

I don't know when this consensus happened but I wasn't consulted. It was a very good decision for me. There's already a dumb "learn to code" thread, take it to there if you're mad about law school.

Also apologies if I misrepresented but I'm not in NY or at a V10 for that matter. So I agree, no interest in NYC.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:37 pm

In my experience, it’s DPW followed by Skadden. They’ll work the same hours as Latham and Kirkland for less pay and constantly say or imply that working for Latham or Kirkland is uncouth or those firms have lower quality associates. All the V10s have high-end M&A and litigation capabilities, so who cares if Latham/Kirkland sometimes have mediocre lateral associates on some $200 million PE deal you worked against them on?

All of us who aren't NYC corporate drones collectively roll our eyes every time this sort of discussion comes up. The world doesn't revolve around NYC M&A and by extension, the Vault rankings. It's weird that NYC corp is like the least competitive thing in BigLaw to get, but NYC corp lawyers are the ones always obsessing over preffftige and V10, V5 nonsense. Lol at NYC "white-shoe." Who even cares about that anymore. Lol think of the armies of SCOTUS/COA clerks at Kirkland, Gibson, Latham in DC, for example, who are reading this thread.

Lit is money losing business for most biglaw anyways. And those in elite boutiques prb should not and do not care. At least in corporate, prestige means better candidates/bigger clients, so more money. Why do you think Milbank keeps raising the scale?

True, but why not just go to biz school? Lol at going to law school for three years just to push papers and prepare signature pages and then debate prefffftige about "NYC white-shoe firms." At least litigation is an actual craft, for those who have the credentials to avoid becoming doc review drones.

I am the anon above - I wasn’t in anyway putting down litigation, was just stating a fact. But to your point, I would actually argue any juniors are diligence/doc review drones. Also, corporate lawyers do push papers, but I’d say they are some pretty important papers, lol. If you are in lit, go read some DE m&a lit cases. More importantly, as you move up the ladder, corporate law (especially m&a) is really a mix of business and law.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:01 pm

Imagine going to law school to be a "real lawyer" and work harder to get a job only to realize that it's an inferior career with weaker exits than corporate.

I mean, yes, if you're a mediocre law school student, corp is the best way to optimize exit options. If you're in that category, you shouldn't go into lit. But if you're a baller law student, you can get a COA clerkship and then go to a boutique that makes more than half their associates partner. Or you can become an AUSA and prosecute white collar criminals instead of preparing their sig pages.

Again, this comes back to the original point: Why do people who choose to go into the least competitive field within biglaw care so much about preffftige? This is less of a criticism of corp as a career path than of the weird juxtaposition between its lack of competitiveness and its insufferable obsession with Vault preffftige.

Why would I want to be a cop for half the money I'm making?

do you not realize that substantive interest exists? i mean that's why you went to law school isntead of doing consulting/banking/sales/tech out of undergrad right, because that would have been a lot more lucrative. also realize a lot of us are in a situation where not every marginal dollar matters