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I'm a class of 2021 CCN grad and have been in biglaw for about five months. I wanted to be a litigator, but thanks to the corporate boom got shoved into M&A. As much as I hate M&A, I hate biglaw more. I hate the hours, being on call, and it's worse than when I signed up because I'm now married and have a health condition that makes the late nights especially brutal (don't want to disclose).

I just want to spend more time with my spouse and move to a normal 9-5/6 job. My spouse has a good job (high five-figures) and I'd be comfortable on $65,000 (I don't have debt). Does anyone have an idea what I could land as a biglaw burnout (I don't want to be a prosecutor/ public defender and I'm not geographically flexible because of my spouse's job).

Thanks!

Edit: Thanks for the comments everyone! I just wanted to add that I'm not interested in going in-house (because I want to get out ASAP).

Really sorry this is happening to you. It's a sub-optimal situation but I wouldn't quit straightaway without another job. Instead, I'd do the following:

1.Start Trying To Lateral - You said yourself that you wanted litigation but ended up in corporate. I'd rectify that by trying to move to a different firm that will let you do litigation. At my firm the litigators have a much better work-life balance than the corporate folks and you have a compelling reason (outside of hating biglaw) for wanting to switch.

2. Start Coasting in Your Current Job - Most biglaw firms won't fire associates until the end of their second year at the earliest (and even then, you have to be truly horrible at your job to not make it to your third year). So, I'd think about ways you can coast (take on less deals, consciously be less responsive late nights and on weekends, etc.) and then do that. The reality is that it'll take them a while to fire you and if you coast in combination with trying to lateral you will be out of your current firm before the axe falls.

I'd really look into government. I'm at a government position and really like it but for the pay. If you're willing to accept the lower salary, do some research into entry level government jobs... Even small potatoes local government. Some jobs can be very boring an monotonous but some can be very interesting. Maybe look for a local law department or civil prosecution-like role.

I agree you should coast until you find something better--either a lit position or non-biglaw. Juniors almost never get forced out.

Does your firm have a reduced hours schedule? Sounds like the family/health condition are perfectly good reasons to opt into that. You'd make more than the $65k you're comfortable with with (hopefully) shorter hours. Plus, then you can keep biglaw on your resume for longer.

What about a clerkship? Fed clerkship hiring is too far out to be helpful for you, but there might be some openings on the NY Ct of Appeals. This lets you catch your breath while you look around at other options.

Really feel like government would be a good choice here. That will make sure you have better hours and a higher likelihood of working in litigation. Since you're coming out of CCN that should help you with finding a position of that nature. (plus government benefits!)

Also, there's no shame in realizing a career isn't for you. Quitting early is better than quitting later.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:37 am

I'd really look into government. I'm at a government position and really like it but for the pay. If you're willing to accept the lower salary, do some research into entry level government jobs... Even small potatoes local government. Some jobs can be very boring an monotonous but some can be very interesting. Maybe look for a local law department or civil prosecution-like role.

Thanks! I've heard government jobs are really difficult to get (especially in a major city). Do you think they'd consider someone who left biglaw so soon?

Would absolutely look into clerking first. Talk to your law school about any openings local to you/potential new judges on the path to confirmation that would be looking to hire ASAP. Clerking would give you litigation exposure and a great chance to think about what's next after the term is up. Government hiring is likely going to be slow for you, but doing it while clerking could work.

Plenty of comfy state government jobs to look for that aren't prosecution.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:58 am

I'm a class of 2021 CCN grad and have been in biglaw for about five months. I wanted to be a litigator, but thanks to the corporate boom got shoved into M&A. As much as I hate M&A, I hate biglaw more. I hate the hours, being on call, and it's worse than when I signed up because I'm now married and have a health condition that makes the late nights especially brutal (don't want to disclose).

I just want to spend more time with my spouse and move to a normal 9-5/6 job. My spouse has a good job (high five-figures) and I'd be comfortable on $65,000 (I don't have debt). Does anyone have an idea what I could land as a biglaw burnout (I don't want to be a prosecutor/ public defender and I'm not geographically flexible because of my spouse's job).

Thanks!

Silver lining: you'll have an exponentially greater chance of securing a more humane in house gig with M&A experience rather than litigation, so that might be a blessing in disguise. Like others have said, obvious options seem to be: (1) coast for as long as you can and/or lateral to buy more time while doing M&A, then start looking for in house roles in years 2/3; (2) mass apply to clerkships (any and all, state courts, federal magistrate judges). Caveat with #2 is that those are usually for a fixed period (1yr, 2yrs), then you'll be on the hunt again.

Hang in there and wishing you the best health wise. It feels really difficult to learn how to say "no" as a junior, but if you're certain it isn't the life for you there are ways to defend yourself from exhaustion and overwork without throwing anyone under the bus or burning bridges.

I can't imagine doing M&A work if my interest was in litigation. That must be a special level of mental burden in addition to the ridiculous demands of M&A biglaw work.

I did a lot of M&A but at least I found the material somewhat interesting (or, to put it differently, way, way more interesting than I would have found litigation work). I can't imagine the shoe being on the other foot and having to do biglaw litigation, with the associated law firm hours and demands, knowing how much I would hate litigation.

Request reduced hours for mental health reasons. They can practically never fire you if you put in writing that you need accommodations for mental health issues. You will work less and make much more than you would outside of a big law firm. Use that extra time to figure out your next move.

Are you in NYC? Local gvmt is hiring like crazy and starting salary is about $75k. Very much 9-5 jobs.

As others have mentioned, if you have nothing to lose and intend to quit anyways, may as well stay and keep your head down while avoiding/turning down work as you interview for lateral positions (not just in biglaw but also midlaw and other legal-adjacent positions that might give you a shot).

Not being married to the biglaw salary will open up many doors that most don't want to enter.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:03 pm

Are you in NYC? Local gvmt is hiring like crazy and starting salary is about $75k. Very much 9-5 jobs.

Is this the NYC Law Dep't? Are you sure it's not because they're all underwater with work?

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:21 am

2. Start Coasting in Your Current Job - Most biglaw firms won't fire associates until the end of their second year at the earliest (and even then, you have to be truly horrible at your job to not make it to your third year). So, I'd think about ways you can coast (take on less deals, consciously be less responsive late nights and on weekends, etc.) and then do that. The reality is that it'll take them a while to fire you and if you coast in combination with trying to lateral you will be out of your current firm before the axe falls.

No, no, no. I was fired as a first year for coasting. It's not impossible even if you're doing the bare minimum.

Wild Card wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:03 pm

Are you in NYC? Local gvmt is hiring like crazy and starting salary is about $75k. Very much 9-5 jobs.

Is this the NYC Law Dep't? Are you sure it's not because they're all underwater with work?

Just more attrition this year because the city still isn’t allowing work from home and just generally it’s been a good market for people to go elsewhere + the Great Resignation. But they are hiring to fill those slots so workload isn’t too bad. But openings aren’t limited to the Law Dept, other city agencies (where you won’t do litigation) are options too.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:58 am

I'm a class of 2021 CCN grad and have been in biglaw for about five months. I wanted to be a litigator, but thanks to the corporate boom got shoved into M&A. As much as I hate M&A, I hate biglaw more. I hate the hours, being on call, and it's worse than when I signed up because I'm now married and have a health condition that makes the late nights especially brutal (don't want to disclose).

I just want to spend more time with my spouse and move to a normal 9-5/6 job. My spouse has a good job (high five-figures) and I'd be comfortable on $65,000 (I don't have debt). Does anyone have an idea what I could land as a biglaw burnout (I don't want to be a prosecutor/ public defender and I'm not geographically flexible because of my spouse's job).

Thanks!

Edit: Thanks for the comments everyone! I just wanted to add that I'm not interested in going in-house (because I want to get out ASAP).

I worked in compliance at a bulge bracket bank for a few years. JD advantage. 8-5, no weekend work, no email on my phone, 22 vacation days, bored out of my mind most of the time. Cleared just shy of $150k.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:38 pm

Wild Card wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:03 pm

Are you in NYC? Local gvmt is hiring like crazy and starting salary is about $75k. Very much 9-5 jobs.

Is this the NYC Law Dep't? Are you sure it's not because they're all underwater with work?

Just more attrition this year because the city still isn’t allowing work from home and just generally it’s been a good market for people to go elsewhere + the Great Resignation. But they are hiring to fill those slots so workload isn’t too bad. But openings aren’t limited to the Law Dept, other city agencies (where you won’t do litigation) are options too.

I see. Thank you for clarifying. I'm clerking right now, and in virtually every case that I'm overseeing where the Law Dept. is counsel, I'm getting requests for extension of discovery deadlines because the original counsel just straight up quit. Very interesting, and I'll certainly keep an eye out for those opportunities. Public service employment at $75,000 is certainly preferable to no employment at all...

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:25 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:21 am

2. Start Coasting in Your Current Job - Most biglaw firms won't fire associates until the end of their second year at the earliest (and even then, you have to be truly horrible at your job to not make it to your third year). So, I'd think about ways you can coast (take on less deals, consciously be less responsive late nights and on weekends, etc.) and then do that. The reality is that it'll take them a while to fire you and if you coast in combination with trying to lateral you will be out of your current firm before the axe falls.

No, no, no. I was fired as a first year for coasting. It's not impossible even if you're doing the bare minimum.

Please elaborate, curious re the details

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:25 pm

SFSpartan wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:21 am

2. Start Coasting in Your Current Job - Most biglaw firms won't fire associates until the end of their second year at the earliest (and even then, you have to be truly horrible at your job to not make it to your third year). So, I'd think about ways you can coast (take on less deals, consciously be less responsive late nights and on weekends, etc.) and then do that. The reality is that it'll take them a while to fire you and if you coast in combination with trying to lateral you will be out of your current firm before the axe falls.

No, no, no. I was fired as a first year for coasting. It's not impossible even if you're doing the bare minimum.

Please elaborate, curious re the details

Same tbh

Counterpoint, I coasted like crazy during my first year, it was mentioned at my annual evaluation, and I ended up leaving as a second year, but 100% on my terms. Nobody ever said anything else to me about hours before I left. And even my eval was like, “people like working with you, you got good reviews, you just need to work more.”

I think the key to coasting is to aggressively turn stuff down, not do terrible work. Be available and responsive for stuff you’re staffed on, but try super hard to avoid getting staffed. Being nice also helps. Like, I stopped answering my phone about three quarters of the way through my first year to dodge staffing calls.

To coast, you need two things: (1) be good and (2) be likeable. Being good means being as responsive as possible (meaning you always shoot a "Will do" as soon as possible to an assignment even if you won't get it to after the weekend, assuming its not a real fire drill) and producing the best possible work product (meaning that it's so good the partner has to put minimal work in fixing it which saves him/her time).

And being likeable is obvious. Be friendly, laugh at people's stupid jokes, reach out to people, be engaged in zoom calls, smile, be funny (if you know how), you know all the shit you know that you need to do.

If you are both of those things, you will get away with a lot of shit. I mean a lot of shit. I worked multiple sub-1400 years and got my bonus at my no-hours firm with good reviews. Because I'm good, at my reviews, I'm typically applauded for how efficient I am, essentially suggesting I slow things down to bill more. I'm a senior now - probably won't make partner, but things are looking good for counsel, which I'd be very happy to take.

Making sure to send a quick "will do" is an excellent tip.