Big Law still possible? Forum

[Anonymous User]

2L at a T25 (think Minn, UF, ASU, etc.) right now with a 3.3 GPA going into spring of 2L. Is it too late to improve my GPA and maybe stand a chance at "true" Big Law (i.e. starting salary of $200k+ or at least $170k)? Luckily, I landed a small/regional Big Law gig for this summer with a regional office of an Am Law 200 firm, but I'm guessing if I got offered the starting salary wouldn't be as good as true Big Law. I'd probably be plenty happy making low six-figures, sure, but more money would be nice. I'm a little worried I'll get no-offered there anyway because of my GPA, actually. I anticipated improving my GPA last semester, but I took 5 classes, which I think was too much, and ended up getting eaten alive by the curve and got a B- in one of my classes (my worst grade in law school). This semester I'm in all doctrinal classes (one being PR), but only four classes. To be honest, I'm kind of burned out on hoping for all A's in law school, though, as it seems like by this far into law school if I haven't shown the ability to get 2-3 A's per semester it probably isn't going to happen, sadly.

What's my best hope? Attempting to specialize in an area and really showing strong grades in classes in that area? Totally revamping my study habits to try for better grades? I assume that 3L grades are largely considered irrelevant anyway, so it seems like if my grades don't improve this semester it won't really matter anymore anyway other than for the purposes of graduating with Latin honors.

[Anonymous User]

Current 3L. I go to UF, so I can only really speak to our outcomes.

I received a market-paying Florida biglaw offer through 2L OCI with a 3.6x (top 20%). I don’t think this is typical, though. Typically, you’ll need an even higher GPA; I have several close friends in the top 10% with 3.7s and 3.8s who weren’t able to get market-paying biglaw in Florida (but some of them were able to land it in NYC). I didn’t have law review, and I’m not a URM, and I didn’t have connections, but I had a strong resume and I think I interview well. These things have to be what carried me.

Do you have law review? A secondary journal? Moot court? URM? All of these things help a bit. It also depends what market you’re looking in. I’m happy to provide more info about Florida firms and recruiting if you’re interested.

[Anonymous User]

Look at your hometown or places you would be down to live in for a year or two. Had a buddy who was straight middle of the pack and some ties to Utah and he got a nice full offer. Market is hot there. He will lateral easily in a year or so.

[Anonymous User]

Current 3L. I go to UF, so I can only really speak to our outcomes.

I received a market-paying Florida biglaw offer through 2L OCI with a 3.6x (top 20%). I don’t think this is typical, though. Typically, you’ll need an even higher GPA; I have several close friends in the top 10% with 3.7s and 3.8s who weren’t able to get market-paying biglaw in Florida (but some of them were able to land it in NYC). I didn’t have law review, and I’m not a URM, and I didn’t have connections, but I had a strong resume and I think I interview well. These things have to be what carried me.

Do you have law review? A secondary journal? Moot court? URM? All of these things help a bit. It also depends what market you’re looking in. I’m happy to provide more info about Florida firms and recruiting if you’re interested.

I do go to UF. It's very discouraging to hear that people with GPAs that high are failing to attain market-paying Big Law gigs. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising given the amount of law students nationwide who are interested in being in Miami and Tampa. I would be interested in getting more info about Florida firms and recruiting, especially for 3Ls (assuming I'll get no-offered).

[Anonymous User]

OP in the current market biglaw is very possible (no guarantee) for 3L recruiting if you're looking in the major markets (ie, NY transactional). It sounds like you're looking specifically for regional and that can be much harder. Might not be that many positions.

[Anonymous User]

OP in the current market biglaw is very possible (no guarantee) for 3L recruiting if you're looking in the major markets (ie, NY transactional). It sounds like you're looking specifically for regional and that can be much harder. Might not be that many positions.

I would do NY transactional for a year or two if it'd allow me to possibly lateral elsewhere, but I doubt I'd have a good shot at those jobs, realistically.

[Anonymous User]

Current 3L. I go to UF, so I can only really speak to our outcomes.

I received a market-paying Florida biglaw offer through 2L OCI with a 3.6x (top 20%). I don’t think this is typical, though. Typically, you’ll need an even higher GPA; I have several close friends in the top 10% with 3.7s and 3.8s who weren’t able to get market-paying biglaw in Florida (but some of them were able to land it in NYC). I didn’t have law review, and I’m not a URM, and I didn’t have connections, but I had a strong resume and I think I interview well. These things have to be what carried me.

Do you have law review? A secondary journal? Moot court? URM? All of these things help a bit. It also depends what market you’re looking in. I’m happy to provide more info about Florida firms and recruiting if you’re interested.

I do go to UF. It's very discouraging to hear that people with GPAs that high are failing to attain market-paying Big Law gigs. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising given the amount of law students nationwide who are interested in being in Miami and Tampa. I would be interested in getting more info about Florida firms and recruiting, especially for 3Ls (assuming I'll get no-offered).

I’m the quoted person.

Yeah, the trouble with Florida biglaw is that there are very, very, very few spots. The best thing you can do at this point is try to build up strong extracurriculars and raise your grades as much as you can. Then you can try applying in 3L, and if nothing pans out, you can try to lateral to a market-paying firm after a couple of years. If you’re starting at an AmLaw 200, that puts you in a decent place for lateralling. Check out the market-paying firms’ recruitment websites; many of them say “AmLaw 100/200 preferred” for lateral postings.

As far as general Florida advice goes, it really helps to have ties to the city you’re applying to; firms care about that a lot.

There are a number of market-paying firms in Florida, but they’re highly concentrated in Miami and they have very small class sizes (many hire 1 SA a year; others may hire 2-3; H&K and GT will hire more, but still not a ton). Speaking Spanish helps in Miami.

Getting market-paying biglaw in Tampa/Orlando/Jacksonville is unlikely; there are very few firms that pay market in these cities. Really, I can only think of H&K, GT (ish), BakerHostetler, and Foley. The limited number of firms + the really small class sizes makes recruitment in these cities tough.

But outside of market-paying biglaw, there are many great regional biglaw firms that pay $150k-$180k. Think Akerman, Gunster, Shutts, Shook, Bilzin. Starting at any of these firms is a fine option. It would also be very realistic for you to lateral from one of these firms to a market-paying firm.

Understandably, all of these positions (market-paying and close to market-paying) are very competitive. That’s because this already very limited pool of spots is not just going to UF students—it’s being split amongst students from UF, T14s, and students at the top of their class from Miami/Stetson/FSU. With your grades, it’s not likely that you’ll get one before graduation (though, of course, it’s not impossible, and you should certainly try). The best you can do at this point is try to raise your GPA, pick up some shiny extracurriculars (a journal, a competition team, a research position, a clinic), and network. Reach out to attorneys at firms you’re interested in to get coffee and learn about their careers; keep these connections going. Then, in 3L, try your hand at open positions. If it doesn’t work out, try to lateral in a couple of years.

Of course, this will be a little easier if you’re interested in transactional work, and it’ll be a little harder if you’re interested in litigation.

Feel free to let me know if you have any specific questions.

ETA:
And to clarify, all of the friends with 3.7s and 3.8s could have gotten NYC biglaw if they’d been open to it; many were just set on being in Florida, which restricted their options. With a 3.6, I had callbacks at market-paying firms in Atlanta and Dallas, and close-to-market firms in North Carolina and Tennessee (I only applied in the south and southeast). I ended up accepting my offer before doing the callbacks, but I think those positions may have ended up working out.

Also figured I’d address the part about being no-offered.

If you get no-offered, apply widely in 3L. As discussed, an AmLaw 200 can keep your lateral options open (of course, it’s not guaranteed, but it’s not an absurd notion). You can start applying early this summer; you don’t have to/shouldn’t wait for 3L OCI. Also don’t be afraid to look outside of Florida, if the caliber of firm/pay is more important to you.

[Anonymous User]

Deleted

[2013]

You shouldn’t have gone go UF if you wanted biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

You shouldn’t have gone go UF if you wanted biglaw.

You're right. It isn't a great option for Big Law—or a clerkship, for that matter—and I wouldn't recommend UF to anyone with those types of goals. Law school grades are unpredictable. I guess the reality is, if I even manage to obtain a position in small Big Law, that will amount to a great outcome from UF. The good thing is, I won't have much debt.

[nixy]

I would be interested in getting more info about Florida firms and recruiting, especially for 3Ls (assuming I'll get no-offered).

Unless your firm specifically said something about maintaining a certain GPA, or historically has no-offered significant numbers of their summer class, I don't think there's any reason to assume you'll get no-offered for grades. (Doesn't mean it's not worth looking into other options, but not because you'll get no-offered.)