Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs Forum

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Anonatty

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Posts: 14
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Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonatty » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:46 pm
Biglaw can get a lot better as you get more senior, if you're at the right firm/working for the right partners and clients. I worked like crazy as a junior associate, but now I'm a 7th year, have never gotten anything less than a full bonus, and usually work 930-630, plus a few extra hours in the evening maybe once or twice a week and some weekend work once or twice a month. There are busy spurts where this doesn't hold true, but that's probably a total of 6 weeks a year where it's substantially more for a sustained period. So it's not 40 hours a week, but rarely more than 50-55 and for $500k.
I think the thing to think about here is whether you want to have that sort of lifestyle for the rest of your life and, if not, what you're planning to do for your exit. 50-55 hours a week is fine if you have no significant non-work commitments (notably young children), but it gets a lot harder once you have important things that need to get done independent of work.

Once you get too senior, whether deserved or not, in house positions will be harder to come by, as you'll be a lot less competitive than someone at your class level who went in house as a midlevel and has several years of in house experience under their belt. Also, if you're not going for partnership, consider that the partners will start to see you as a threat to their equity pie the more senior you get (and act accordingly).
On the point about "if you're not going for partnership, consider that the partners will start to see you as a threat to their equity pie the more senior you get," what is the reasoning behind it? If someone just wants to be a senior associate or of counsel for the long-term, how is that eating into a partner's equity (if the associate/of counsel position is presumably on the BigLaw salary scale)?

Anonatty

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Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:04 pm

Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonatty » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:51 pm
Checking in as another ex-biglaw lawyer in a unicorn work life balance job now.

I did PE M&A for a total of six years at two different firms before finally making the jump in-house last year. I'm now in a corporate generalist position with a large private company. I'm essentially the sole in-house lawyer for a division so the work is really varied (everything from negotiating commercial agreements to managing litigation to dealing with personnel issues). I make mid-300s all in and the job is a true 9-5 (except for the occasional early or late call to accommodate time zones) with respected weekends and holidays.

It took me about a year of looking fairly seriously to find this job. My experience was that finding an in-house job as an M&A lawyer after you hit around year 3-4 is pretty easy, but finding a unicorn job is really tough. There were a number of positions which I either turned down or withdrew from the interview process before finishing because the combo of comp/work life balance/interesting work didn't line up. Comp in particular seems to be all over the map. As a 6th year I had interviews for positions that wanted to pay sub-200k all in (mostly older blue chips that would require a move to a smaller market) and positions that would match biglaw (PE shops) but wanted essentially biglaw hours.

Having been in-house now for about a year I couldn't be happier I made the switch, it's impossible to describe how much better the lifestyle is.
Would you mind sharing what city you're in? (Or if you're in a VHCOL or HCOL city?)

VentureMBA

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Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by VentureMBA » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:51 pm
Checking in as another ex-biglaw lawyer in a unicorn work life balance job now.

I did PE M&A for a total of six years at two different firms before finally making the jump in-house last year. I'm now in a corporate generalist position with a large private company. I'm essentially the sole in-house lawyer for a division so the work is really varied (everything from negotiating commercial agreements to managing litigation to dealing with personnel issues). I make mid-300s all in and the job is a true 9-5 (except for the occasional early or late call to accommodate time zones) with respected weekends and holidays.

It took me about a year of looking fairly seriously to find this job. My experience was that finding an in-house job as an M&A lawyer after you hit around year 3-4 is pretty easy, but finding a unicorn job is really tough. There were a number of positions which I either turned down or withdrew from the interview process before finishing because the combo of comp/work life balance/interesting work didn't line up. Comp in particular seems to be all over the map. As a 6th year I had interviews for positions that wanted to pay sub-200k all in (mostly older blue chips that would require a move to a smaller market) and positions that would match biglaw (PE shops) but wanted essentially biglaw hours.

Having been in-house now for about a year I couldn't be happier I made the switch, it's impossible to describe how much better the lifestyle is.
I assume vacations are total unplug?

That's the worst part about BigLaw for me. Vacations are like pulling teeth (everyone says they want you to take them, but they don't) and rarely do you really get to fully unplug from work.

Anonymous User
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Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:42 pm

VentureMBA wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:37 pm
I assume vacations are total unplug?

That's the worst part about BigLaw for me. Vacations are like pulling teeth (everyone says they want you to take them, but they don't) and rarely do you really get to fully unplug from work.
I genuinely would like to know how this is possible. I recently took 2 weeks off and didn't bring my laptop. Two of my colleagues have recently taken off a month and, to my knowledge, both did the same thing. All it took was a few reminders to my teams and zero caveats about "responses may be delayed" and the like. I tell everyone to basically expect me to be a ghost, and then I still check my email at least 3x a week and will respond if it's important/the sender is polite/I'm in a good mood.

Are the people who feel like they can't take real vacations 100% irreplaceable on their cases/deals? Becuase this attitude gets mentioned a lot, and it's never once been an issue for me. (Granted, I've only been around 5 years, and seniority probably plays a big role in your ability to disappear.)

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:42 pm
VentureMBA wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:37 pm
I assume vacations are total unplug?

That's the worst part about BigLaw for me. Vacations are like pulling teeth (everyone says they want you to take them, but they don't) and rarely do you really get to fully unplug from work.
I genuinely would like to know how this is possible. I recently took 2 weeks off and didn't bring my laptop. Two of my colleagues have recently taken off a month and, to my knowledge, both did the same thing. All it took was a few reminders to my teams and zero caveats about "responses may be delayed" and the like. I tell everyone to basically expect me to be a ghost, and then I still check my email at least 3x a week and will respond if it's important/the sender is polite/I'm in a good mood.

Are the people who feel like they can't take real vacations 100% irreplaceable on their cases/deals? Becuase this attitude gets mentioned a lot, and it's never once been an issue for me. (Granted, I've only been around 5 years, and seniority probably plays a big role in your ability to disappear.)
That's awesome. I haven't taken an unplug vacation since I was a second-year. Midlevel now, and combination of what the partners expect and the flood of work during Covid have meant vacations are basically nonexistent. Granted I am the only full-time associate in my group working for 3-4 partners, so that may have something to do with it.

At least the partners I work for are honest. They expect me to treat my vacations like they treat theirs: schedule a week here and there if you can, but odds are you'll be putting in 1-3 hours during those weekdays, and if something big comes up, your vacation is just effed.

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Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:05 pm

Anonatty wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:33 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:51 pm

Would you mind sharing what city you're in? (Or if you're in a VHCOL or HCOL city?)
Permanently remote. I was in VHCOL when I was in biglaw and I'm still here, but am strongly considering moving somewhere lower cost to take advantage of the cost of living arbitrage

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:08 pm

VentureMBA wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:37 pm

I assume vacations are total unplug?

That's the worst part about BigLaw for me. Vacations are like pulling teeth (everyone says they want you to take them, but they don't) and rarely do you really get to fully unplug from work.
Yes, vacations (so far) have been totally unplugged. I had the same problem with vacations when i was in biglaw, with one exception where I was literally unreachable for a week, the expectation was that you'd at least check in and it was common to bill at least a little which really defeats the purpose of unplugging for me.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:21 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 4:46 pm
Biglaw can get a lot better as you get more senior, if you're at the right firm/working for the right partners and clients. I worked like crazy as a junior associate, but now I'm a 7th year, have never gotten anything less than a full bonus, and usually work 930-630, plus a few extra hours in the evening maybe once or twice a week and some weekend work once or twice a month. There are busy spurts where this doesn't hold true, but that's probably a total of 6 weeks a year where it's substantially more for a sustained period. So it's not 40 hours a week, but rarely more than 50-55 and for $500k.
I think the thing to think about here is whether you want to have that sort of lifestyle for the rest of your life and, if not, what you're planning to do for your exit. 50-55 hours a week is fine if you have no significant non-work commitments (notably young children), but it gets a lot harder once you have important things that need to get done independent of work.

Once you get too senior, whether deserved or not, in house positions will be harder to come by, as you'll be a lot less competitive than someone at your class level who went in house as a midlevel and has several years of in house experience under their belt. Also, if you're not going for partnership, consider that the partners will start to see you as a threat to their equity pie the more senior you get (and act accordingly).
I do have a child, fortunately my wife has a true 9-5 and is able to pick up the slack to the extent I'm in one of my busy periods, or it's the 1-2 nights a week I work late. 50-55 hrs for $500k is, for me, much much better than 35-40 hours for $200k. It's not an easy job obviously, but it's sustainable. For my first 3-4 years in biglaw, it was not a sustainable lifestyle.

I'm not particularly concerned about exit. If in ten years I'm still in biglaw, it'll be because I made partner and therefore am making partner money. If I'm not in biglaw, I'll most likely be in house with a current client. Either way, I'll be able to put food on the table.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428123
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Unicorn Work Life Balance Jobs

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jan 28, 2022 2:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:51 pm
Checking in as another ex-biglaw lawyer in a unicorn work life balance job now.

I did PE M&A for a total of six years at two different firms before finally making the jump in-house last year. I'm now in a corporate generalist position with a large private company. I'm essentially the sole in-house lawyer for a division so the work is really varied (everything from negotiating commercial agreements to managing litigation to dealing with personnel issues). I make mid-300s all in and the job is a true 9-5 (except for the occasional early or late call to accommodate time zones) with respected weekends and holidays.

It took me about a year of looking fairly seriously to find this job. My experience was that finding an in-house job as an M&A lawyer after you hit around year 3-4 is pretty easy, but finding a unicorn job is really tough. There were a number of positions which I either turned down or withdrew from the interview process before finishing because the combo of comp/work life balance/interesting work didn't line up. Comp in particular seems to be all over the map. As a 6th year I had interviews for positions that wanted to pay sub-200k all in (mostly older blue chips that would require a move to a smaller market) and positions that would match biglaw (PE shops) but wanted essentially biglaw hours.

Having been in-house now for about a year I couldn't be happier I made the switch, it's impossible to describe how much better the lifestyle is.
How common was it to find jobs with good wlb? How could you tell if one was intense or chill? I'm a second year in corporate general tired of working until 10pm. I want to get out asap.

Also, how common was it to find jobs that would allow remote? I like where I live and wouldn't want to move to the bay area or NY.

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