Duke 1L, just got 1st Semester grades back, 3.066 Forum

[saxon51313]

Hello all,

I am a 1L and received my first semester grades yesterday, and currently have a 3.066 GPA, less than the 3.3 Median GPA. The GPA thus far only represents 44 % of the weight, if I understand correctly, of what will be my final grades exiting my 1L year. It is imperative for me to go into BigLaw in order to pay down my debts.

I can recognize now, easy gains I left on the table first semester. I have never been particularly organized or detail-oriented and believe I can amp up the GPA by the end of the school year. This all being said, what final 1L GPA do I need to achieve to have a shot at OCI offers, and what other advice can others give?

Thanks for your help!

[Thrive]

Hello all,

I am a 1L and received my first semester grades yesterday, and currently have a 3.066 GPA, less than the 3.3 Median GPA. The GPA thus far only represents 44 % of the weight, if I understand correctly, of what will be my final grades exiting my 1L year. It is imperative for me to go into BigLaw in order to pay down my debts.

I can recognize now, easy gains I left on the table first semester. I have never been particularly organized or detail-oriented and believe I can amp up the GPA by the end of the school year. This all being said, what final 1L GPA do I need to achieve to have a shot at OCI offers, and what other advice can others give?

Thanks for your help!

These questions are alway difficult to answer. Ultimately, you should take a deep breathe and just do the best that you can in the Spring. If you can get that GPA up a bit more, my guess is that you’ll be fine. As someone on these boards once said, some doors are probably closed due to those grades but they’re probably doors you didn’t want to open anyway.

Enjoy your Spring and don’t stress out too much.

[LBJ's Hair]

can't speak to specific Duke GPA cutoffs, but not sure I understand what you intend to do with this information. if I told you that you need a 3.4 cumulative would you study less hard than if I told you that you need a 3.5?

it's like the LSAT - every incremental point is gonna help you. don't focus on a number, just do your best

[Anonymous User]

Going anon due to specificity on grades / job.

I went to Duke and got similar first semester grades (3.16 for me). Obviously, as you said this is not good news. Getting big law is hard with those grades and you will have to bring your GPA up second semester to have a solid shot during OCI. I ended up bringing my grades just above median (a 3.35) by the end of second semester 1L and had multiple big law offers. Am in big law now.

I'll tell you what I did for grades. First, I was honest about my situation to my upper class mentors (2 and 3Ls) and got their advice (often professor specific--i.e. this optional reading assignment isn't really optional; office hours is particularly helpful for this professor; here's the best outline for this professor). Use your network. Second, I started ACTUALLY paying attention in class--like paper notes in a notebook, no phone--and always thinking, from the start of the semester, how lecture material could relate to the exam. Third, I started going to office hours--a lot--and particularly for LARW. LARW office hours are key because you can run your argument ideas by your professor. Everyone who got top LARW grades in my section went to like every office hours session.

I'll tell you what a did for a job. This is going to sound cocky, but I think I interview exceptionally well--I got an SA even with that 3.16 before my second semester better grades came out. I did not wait for OCI for my 2L summer search. I reached out to Duke alum who worked at firms I was targeting for networking phone calls / application tips. And, I applied early and in less competitive markets. (New York, Texas--i.e. not DC. If you were hoping for DC, go ahead and kiss that goodbye). I had a story for why my grades were bad: "I worked between law school and college and lost sight of some test taking habits--I set a meeting post grades with each of my Fall 1L professors to figure out what went wrong on the finals and I realize now that I was focused on quality over quantity in my exams. I'm confident I can fix that going forward." You need to get out in front of it and the articulation for why your grades were bad as well as the game plan going forward needs to be solid.

That said, with the 3.066 GPA you have now, big law would not necessarily be impossible but you would need to network extensively--start emailing Duke alums in markets you're looking at asking for coffee / phone call to learn more about their practice area. And on top of networking, you'd definitely have a personality / interview persona that makes people want to overlook your grades. Look scrappy and eager; be prepared for some firms to just write you off for those grades. The best option is to buckle down hard this semester and come up to median--then you'll have much better options. The good news is you can do it--I did it and you can too.

[meat tornado]

2017 grad jumping in with some anecdotal evidence — I know someone who got a similar GPA first semester and a 3.9 second semester. Meet with your professors, ask for exam answer keys, and try to get the highest grade possible in legal writing. I’m not sure what the hiring market is like now, but you can get biglaw with a 3.1 if you hustle.

[2013]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

[Anonymous User]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

Duke Grad Anon from above. The 3.3 median is a fat median. Anecdotally speaking, there are less people than you would think below it. Such that yes, a 3.066 likely puts OP in the range of people who should be worried (unless this year is different). As I said above, not impossible but OP needs to ideally get those grades up to have a good shot.

[saxon51313]

Going anon due to specificity on grades / job.

I went to Duke and got similar first semester grades (3.16 for me). Obviously, as you said this is not good news. Getting big law is hard with those grades and you will have to bring your GPA up second semester to have a solid shot during OCI. I ended up bringing my grades just above median (a 3.35) by the end of second semester 1L and had multiple big law offers. Am in big law now.

I'll tell you what I did for grades. First, I was honest about my situation to my upper class mentors (2 and 3Ls) and got their advice (often professor specific--i.e. this optional reading assignment isn't really optional; office hours is particularly helpful for this professor; here's the best outline for this professor). Use your network. Second, I started ACTUALLY paying attention in class--like paper notes in a notebook, no phone--and always thinking, from the start of the semester, how lecture material could relate to the exam. Third, I started going to office hours--a lot--and particularly for LARW. LARW office hours are key because you can run your argument ideas by your professor. Everyone who got top LARW grades in my section went to like every office hours session.

I'll tell you what a did for a job. This is going to sound cocky, but I think I interview exceptionally well--I got an SA even with that 3.16 before my second semester better grades came out. I did not wait for OCI for my 2L summer search. I reached out to Duke alum who worked at firms I was targeting for networking phone calls / application tips. And, I applied early and in less competitive markets. (New York, Texas--i.e. not DC. If you were hoping for DC, go ahead and kiss that goodbye). I had a story for why my grades were bad: "I worked between law school and college and lost sight of some test taking habits--I set a meeting post grades with each of my Fall 1L professors to figure out what went wrong on the finals and I realize now that I was focused on quality over quantity in my exams. I'm confident I can fix that going forward." You need to get out in front of it and the articulation for why your grades were bad as well as the game plan going forward needs to be solid.

That said, with the 3.066 GPA you have now, big law would not necessarily be impossible but you would need to network extensively--start emailing Duke alums in markets you're looking at asking for coffee / phone call to learn more about their practice area. And on top of networking, you'd definitely have a personality / interview persona that makes people want to overlook your grades. Look scrappy and eager; be prepared for some firms to just write you off for those grades. The best option is to buckle down hard this semester and come up to median--then you'll have much better options. The good news is you can do it--I did it and you can too.

I really appreciate the advice and the depth you put in this. I only got the grades yesterday at 5:00PM, but have been trying to plan the work, so I can work the plan to get myself out of this. I was foolish of course to have left those "easy gains" on the table and I believe I can lift myself out of this, and if not, I might as well try. I find the candor invaluable and will make sure to take this to heart.

[saxon51313]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I am glad to be able to tap into the information so quickly!

[Sackboy]

can't speak to specific Duke GPA cutoffs, but not sure I understand what you intend to do with this information. if I told you that you need a 3.4 cumulative would you study less hard than if I told you that you need a 3.5?

it's like the LSAT - every incremental point is gonna help you. don't focus on a number, just do your best

As is frequently the case, I endorse LBJ. Aim as high as you can. You are in a very problematic spot. You are not outside of reach at all of getting a GPA that will comfortably get you biglaw, but you are going to need to do significantly better in order to roll into OCI with decent options.

[Anonymous User]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

Duke Grad Anon from above. The 3.3 median is a fat median. Anecdotally speaking, there are less people than you would think below it. Such that yes, a 3.066 likely puts OP in the range of people who should be worried (unless this year is different). As I said above, not impossible but OP needs to ideally get those grades up to have a good shot.

Fellow Duke alum here and I agree that 3.07 puts OP a good deal outside of the median but by far the most important thing for OP to do right now is focus on pulling up their spring semester grades because this is very much a salvageable situation. Even a 3.4 this semester would pull OP into the range to land a New York biglaw job with average interviewing skills.

[mwells_56]

I had a 3.12 after my first semester at Georgetown. I was absolutely down in the dumps when I got my grades, so I understand you're probably feeling like you've already screwed it all up and that maybe law school was a dumb move. But as someone who went through it, you can still come out of this with a good outcome.

I landed a 2L SA at a F100 and was offered at the end, but then got a Big Law job during 3L hiring. Here's what I did.

This is going to be long so the tldr is: (1) grades up, (2) take every resume booster you can find, (3) bid low, (4) lock in on a practice area, (5) if you strike out, repeat 1-4 and be as aggressive as possible applying to anything and everything on the internet.

The most obvious step is to get your grades up. Everyone's got their own reasons for why they underperform. For me, I realized that when I was in my study groups and using friends' outlines instead of studying on my own and writing my own outlines, I wasn't actually absorbing the material. I was just listening to other people say stuff and thinking "Oh yeah, that sounds right. Cool, now I know that." But no, I didn't actually "know" it, I just wasn't confused by it. So second semester I basically because a social recluse and did everything 100% on my own and got a 3.33 for a cumulative GPA of 3.26 (bit below median). Good enough to not be laughed out the door at OCI, but it was an uphill climb, especially as a K-JD.

Since I knew with my grades Big Law would be somewhat tough, I resolved to make the rest of my resume unimpeachable. Joined Barristers' Council (ADR, which isn't as well recognized as Moot/Mock but people were interested in it and it was more applicable to corporate work), joined a secondary journal, and landed a fedgov internship for my 1L summer. I also made sure to pick up an externship for 2L fall so I could put it on my resume as an upcoming gig.

All that being said, I still struck out at 2L OCI. Some mistakes I made that you can learn from: bid low. I made the mistake of putting too many firms that I really wanted to work at too high on my list, and didn't get screeners with the lower-ranked firms I would've had a better chance with. I was too stubborn about wanting a market-paying gig, and resolved that I would've rather worked in government or in house than work Big Law hours for less than market pay. What I hadn't considered was how much easier it would've been to trade up from a low-V100 or an AmLaw200 firm up to a market paying firm than from anywhere else. I also was way too wishy-washy about practice area. I thought it would make more sense to make it sound like I was open to anything, but I should've just made something up tbh. Everyone says it's not "necessary" to know what you want to practice, but having a particular area of interest can show enthusiasm for the work you'll be doing and that you aren't just looking to collect a fat paycheck doing whatever they give you.

After I struck out, I scrambled hard. I continued getting my grades up, did my externship + journal + Barristers'. But I applied to hundreds of jobs from September-December. Anything and everything that sounded even remotely interesting in any location I thought would make any kind of sense for my life. By the grace of god and I don't fully know how I pulled it off I found a janky-ass posting for a summer associate job at a F-100 company's legal department and landed the gig. It was a mix of contract drafting and regulatory work, so my fedgov internships were super helpful.

Went through the summer, got an offer, was pretty content. But I still wanted to give Big Law a shot so I started applying (and continued getting my grades up, ended school with a 3.43 thanks to gaming the COVID pass/fail policy). The nice thing about having the in-house offer was that I could afford to be more picky. Even so, I went to every firm's website that I was interested in, checked for any job postings that required 3 years of experience or less and emailed the recruiters to see if they were still hiring 3Ls. Had a few interviews, landed an offer at a V50.

Hope this helps.

[almostperfectt]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

Duke Grad Anon from above. The 3.3 median is a fat median. Anecdotally speaking, there are less people than you would think below it. Such that yes, a 3.066 likely puts OP in the range of people who should be worried (unless this year is different). As I said above, not impossible but OP needs to ideally get those grades up to have a good shot.

Sorry, what the hell does "fat median" mean. By definition there are 50% of people below median and 50% above median right?

[Anonymous User]

Duke anon from above again here. Median is not the same as mean. People equate them accidentally all the time. Without getting into too much math, if you google the concepts you'll understand what I mean. It is not 50% above, 50% below.

[Anonymous User]

I am a fellow Duke alum, class of 2019.

I finished my first semester with a 3.06. I was devastated and deeply worried. Tried harder second semester and improved, but only up to 3.19 average.

Worked for a federal judge that summer and used my down time to reach out to alums at firms I was interested in. Scheduled phone calls or coffee/lunch/drinks if geographically possible.

Started mass mailing about a month before OCI. Bid conservatively at OCI and did my best to show genuine interest and enthusiasm at the interviews. Discretely name dropped my newfound contacts whenever feasible to signal my interest/extracurricular efforts. Many firms were very receptive to that.

All said and done, I landed 9 callbacks and 5 offers, including two in notoriously difficult secondary markets outside of NYC.

Summered at one such firm and got an offer. Have been with them since and have been thriving there.

Kept improving my grades throughout law school and graduated with a respectable (albeit not great) 3.4-ish GPA.

I think the take away is for you should be (1) do your best to up your grades, but more importantly (2) hustle hard for your job and (3) bid intelligently when the time comes.

Duke will give you amazing resources ahead of OCI which will enable you to analyze which firms prioritize grades over others. Use that to your advantage and don’t be a prestige snob. If it pays market (or close), then it should be all the same to you.

Also, do make sure to not dip below 3.0 — that will be a whole different beast. But otherwise, you’d be surprised at the results you can get with a 3.1 or better.

To that end, let me know if you want to schedule a phone call or something to talk things through. Happy to be a resource for you. I know things can be tough at first but at the end of the day you are at an amazing school and have a B average. The future is still bright.

[Anonymous User]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

Duke Grad Anon from above. The 3.3 median is a fat median. Anecdotally speaking, there are less people than you would think below it. Such that yes, a 3.066 likely puts OP in the range of people who should be worried (unless this year is different). As I said above, not impossible but OP needs to ideally get those grades up to have a good shot.

Sorry, what the hell does "fat median" mean. By definition there are 50% of people below median and 50% above median right?

3.3 grades are given to something like the 30th through 55th percentile of students in a given 1L course. So it is the median, but it is also the mode, and if you get a 3.2 or worse you didn’t actually just miss the median - you were in the 29th percentile (or whatever) at best.

[Anonymous User]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

Duke Grad Anon from above. The 3.3 median is a fat median. Anecdotally speaking, there are less people than you would think below it. Such that yes, a 3.066 likely puts OP in the range of people who should be worried (unless this year is different). As I said above, not impossible but OP needs to ideally get those grades up to have a good shot.

Sorry, what the hell does "fat median" mean. By definition there are 50% of people below median and 50% above median right?

3.3 grades are given to something like the 30th through 55th percentile of students in a given 1L course. So it is the median, but it is also the mode, and if you get a 3.2 or worse you didn’t actually just miss the median - you were in the 29th percentile (or whatever) at best.

Right, and 3.3 is the median for a given course only. To assume it's the median for the entire semester is like assuming all students got the same grade in all their courses.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a Duke alum and I never heard anything about a fat median — grading tended to be professor-specific even in 1L courses and I think some stuck to an old-school bell curve. I’m not saying I don’t believe this is the case, just wondering how you all know this.

[becodalapa]

Doesn’t 80% of duke’s class get biglaw or article III? Does OP really need to worry?

Duke Grad Anon from above. The 3.3 median is a fat median. Anecdotally speaking, there are less people than you would think below it. Such that yes, a 3.066 likely puts OP in the range of people who should be worried (unless this year is different). As I said above, not impossible but OP needs to ideally get those grades up to have a good shot.

Sorry, what the hell does "fat median" mean. By definition there are 50% of people below median and 50% above median right?

No, that is not what "median" means. The median is just the middle value. So if there are 11 students and the distribution looks like this:

3.00
3.06
3.33
3.33
3.33
3.33
3.33
3.33
3.76
3.87
3.92

The median is 3.33 even though only 2/11 people have grades lower than a 3.33. That's what a "fat median" looks like.

[Saxon513]

Hello all,

I just wanted to let all of you who were so kind to offer advice and encouragement, that I was able to right-side myself spring semester, and will have employment opportunities that I am excited about. I really appreciate this community and the constructive nature of everyone's comments. You all who frequent these forums and offer advice are the real MVPs.

[Anonymous User]

One thing that will help tremendously is to get an in-house internship (paid or unpaid) at a well known company for 1L summer. There are many and most internships at these in-house departments are not grade sensitive at all and would love to hire a Duke JD. I feel the importance of such experience could not be overstated for students with less ideal grades. They help 1) demonstrate strong interest in corporate and 2) give candidates specific experiences that can resonate with big law transactional attorneys professionally. These two things are extremely important especially if you were a KJD with poor grades.

Don't despair because I have seen many ppl land 3L big law offers working at Yahoo etc as 2Ls after striking out from T14s. If you proceed strategically frow now on your chances of getting big law should be very good from Duke!

[nixy]

One thing that will help tremendously is to get an in-house internship (paid or unpaid) at a well known company for 1L summer. There are many and most internships at these in-house departments are not grade sensitive at all and would love to hire a Duke JD. I feel the importance of such experience could not be overstated for students with less ideal grades. They help 1) demonstrate strong interest in corporate and 2) give candidates specific experiences that can resonate with big law transactional attorneys professionally. These two things are extremely important especially if you were a KJD with poor grades.

Don't despair because I have seen many ppl land 3L big law offers working at Yahoo etc as 2Ls after striking out from T14s. If you proceed strategically frow now on your chances of getting big law should be very good from Duke!

Not contesting the content exactly, but the OP's 1L summer will have come and gone by now.

[johndhi]

Ppl say up your grades - is there a consensus on how?

I did well in law school and I attribute it to narrow focus on exam taking. I did a LOT of practice exams and wrote the whole things under time constraints over and over. It built pathways in my brain to answer these questions in the 'getting to maybe' style. Really helped. I also went to every class and read the material, but I think it was the test exams that made a difference. Graduated just under 3.9.

[Anonymous User]

Ppl say up your grades - is there a consensus on how?

I did well in law school and I attribute it to narrow focus on exam taking. I did a LOT of practice exams and wrote the whole things under time constraints over and over. It built pathways in my brain to answer these questions in the 'getting to maybe' style. Really helped. I also went to every class and read the material, but I think it was the test exams that made a difference. Graduated just under 3.9.

I mean, this is basically "how to do well in law school" 101, which is probably effective for >80% of students.